Huckabee says churches should give up tax exempt status

[Further]

Interesting
http://www.examiner.com/article/mike-huckabee-says-churches-should-give-up-tax-exempt-status

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Keep the tax exempt status, keep religious organizations out of politics.

 

[ABM]

Intersting.

I think we need to recognize that it may be time to quit worrying so much about the tax code and start thinking more about the truth of the living God, and if it means that we give up tax-exempt status and tax deductions for charitable contributions, I choose freedom more than I choose a deduction that the government gives me permission to say what God wants me to say.

 

[RR7]

great idea.

 

[MARIS61]

Fat chance any take him up on it, as they are all about the benjamins.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

great idea.

I don't think it is a very good idea. Once churches start paying taxes then they get to endorse politicians.

"The Catholic Church endorses __________"

The Baptist Church wants you to Vote No on measure _______"

Do we really need to add religious voices to our political arguments?

 

[Further]

I don't think it is a very good idea. Once churches start paying taxes then they get to endorse politicians.

"The Catholic Church endorses __________"

The Baptist Church wants you to Vote No on measure _______"

Do we really need to add religious voices to our political arguments?

They already do, it's just done with a wink right now.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

They already do, it's just done with a wink right now.

And I think it needs to stay that way. I'm fine with the wink.

 

[ABM]

Do we really need to add religious voices to our political arguments?

Well, collectively, perhaps those "voices" are people just like you and me.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Well, collectively, perhaps those "voices" are people just like you and me.

And those people don't have a voice currently? They can still support and donate to candidates and policies.

 

[MARIS61]

So why do you oppose them paying taxes like everybody else?

Maybe a "Church of MARIS61" is in order. I could use a break on my taxes.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Churches do pay taxes on their business activities (if they own businesses).

 

[crandc]

Churches own literally billions of dollars in property and assets for which they pay no taxes. Clergy get special tax exemptions. They are already heavily involved in politics, would Prop H8 ever have passed had not the Mormons and Catholics joined with evangelicals to pour millions of dollars and hundreds of paid "volunteers" to spread hate and misinformation? The great majority supports birth control but it is under attack to appease Christian rightists. Huckabee is right for the wrong reasons. He wants churches (his own, specifically) even more involved in politics (his own, specifically). I'd say recognize the reality. Religion is big business but pays even less of a share than secular big business. How much better off financially would this country be if we, taxpayers of all or no faith, were not having to subsidize religions we don't agree with so they can pay no tax AND meddle in politics?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

How much better off financially would this country be if we, taxpayers of all or no faith, were not having to subsidize religions we don't agree with so they can pay no tax AND meddle in politics?

The idea that giving donation-supported non-business organizations tax-exempt status is somehow "subsidizing" them seems a bit off to me. BTW--where's the call to end tax-exempt status for politically-active non-religious non-profit organizations?

 

[Nate4Prez]

Keep the tax exempt status, keep religious organizations out of politics.

You do realize the irony of this statement, right? By letting religious organizations be tax exempt that is a political decision. So, regardless of whether a religious organization does or does not pay taxes a political decision has been made. I think they should pay taxes, they are a business, just like Wal-Mart.

 

[santeesioux]

Yeah, make them pay taxes.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

The idea that giving donation-supported non-business organizations tax-exempt status is somehow "subsidizing" them seems a bit off to me. BTW--where's the call to end tax-exempt status for politically-active non-religious non-profit organizations?

nice points all.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I don't think it is a very good idea. Once churches start paying taxes then they get to endorse politicians.

"The Catholic Church endorses __________"

The Baptist Church wants you to Vote No on measure _______"

Do we really need to add religious voices to our political arguments?

so...its only ok for say, a public union to do that?

 

[Denny Crane]

The obvious answer is that the tax code is fucked up. It can only be fucked up until we do away with it.

The IRS scandal shows why the government shouldn't be in the business of picking and choosing who should benefit through the tax code. And those who have the money and resources simply buy congress to get what they want in the code.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think they should pay taxes, they are a business, just like Wal-Mart.

What is your definition of a business?

 

[Nate4Prez]

What is your definition of a business?

A business is an organization involved in the trade of goods, services, or both to consumers. Churches sell something to people (God, hope, a feeling of superiority), and they should be subject to all the laws and taxes any other business is subject to.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

so...its only ok for say, a public union to do that?

Unions do pay taxes on direct political contributions.

But that's besides the point. Have religions suffered because they have not had a greater voice in politics? I don't think so. We've never had religious based political parties in this country. I think that is a good thing. Allowing churches to have a greater say in politics would allow that to happen.

Image suddenly the Catholic church becoming a major political party in this nation (I was raised Catholic and I'm not bashing them). Suddenly that Latino block of voters that both the Republicans and Democrats are trying to attract unite behind the new Catholic political party. They quickly could become the 3rd largest political party in the nation. I can see a lot of problems with having that much of a religious focus on local and national elections.

 

[MARIS61]

Churches do pay taxes on their business activities (if they own businesses).

That's a riot.

A church IS a business. ALL of it's activities are business activities.

They do not pay property tax, but many have huge property holdings and use all the same services and infrastructure a regular business does. They have paid employees the same as a regular business does. They sell a service the same as a regular business. There's no distinguishable difference between a church and a strip club, as far as their basic operation and their use of tax-funded services. But the strip club pays it's way through taxes and business fees while the church is fully subsidized by all citizens, most of whom get nothing in return.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Churches sell something to people (God, hope, a feeling of superiority)

Are you familiar with the Uniform Commercial Code? Nothing a church normally does meets the legal definition of a sale.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Are you familiar with the Uniform Commercial Code? Nothing a church normally does meets the legal definition of a sale.

Sale: to transfer possession and ownership goods or other property for money or something of equivalent value.

Is gambling a sale? No. Is a casino business? No. Is paying a stripper a sale? No, because possession has not been transferred, ownership did not change. Is a strip club a business? Yes.

 

[maxiep]

I don't think it is a very good idea. Once churches start paying taxes then they get to endorse politicians.

"The Catholic Church endorses __________"

The Baptist Church wants you to Vote No on measure _______"

Do we really need to add religious voices to our political arguments?

Why not? What's wrong with it?

And for the record, Black churches have been organizing and mobilizing voters for decades.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Are you familiar with the Uniform Commercial Code? Nothing a church normally does meets the legal definition of a sale.

If I started a "workshop" or a "retreat" that you could come to free of charge, and I would speak publicly about things that could save your soul or just improve your everyday outlook, money was not required for you to attend, I just suggested it, and eventually I had 10,000 followers that thought my insight and ideas changed their life. They all started to give me 5% of their annual income. Are you saying that I am not operating a business? Are you saying I should have a special tax exemption from the income I earned? Does it make a difference if 10 million or 1 billion people supported me?

 

[maxiep]

The obvious answer is that the tax code is fucked up. It can only be fucked up until we do away with it.

The IRS scandal shows why the government shouldn't be in the business of picking and choosing who should benefit through the tax code. And those who have the money and resources simply buy congress to get what they want in the code.

Bingo. This post is exactly what I was going to make, so I'm glad I read the thread before posting.

The IRS scandal has been a real eye opener for me. I used to think that some specific deductions were useful for society. Now that I've seen the systemic abuse, I really think the best way to declaw the bureaucrats is to eliminate almost all deductions. It would drive many of the lobbyists out of business, wipe out the externality of tax attorneys and accountants, allow us to shrink the IRS to almost nothing, and force businesses to focus on investments that actually are positive NPV instead of ones that are tax driven.

If it were me, I'd eliminate all deductions except for mortgage interest, but limit that one to 80% LTV (determined at the time of home purchase or refinancing, so a changing market doesn't inadvertently impact you). Anything over 80% and you don't get the deduction.

 

[Denny Crane]

Why have a mortgage interest deduction?

Why have any deduction (or direct tax) at all!!!

If they're going to have some sort of deduction and a direct tax, then some sort of universal deduction to cover the cost of a modest mortgage or rent, food, medicine, and maybe education would make sense. You wouldn't have to itemize, you'd just get a $15K deduction or whatever amount makes sense.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I don't know this, so I'll ask it in the form of a question:

How much of a church's "income" goes to charity work, vs. how much goes to political stuff? At the 3 churches I've been most involved in in my life, the ratio is >> 99-1.

Why does Bill Gates have a deduction for charity, but First Church of Centerville should not? Why does Google get a deduction for charity work, but a church should not? Why does Habitat for Humanity get deductions, but a church should not?

Now, if you say get rid of deductions of all types, no problem. But if there are deductions for charity work, then they should be allowed across the board, whether you hate giving poor people food or not.