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The Nets, I'm told, did not make a promise to draft Gallinari -- in part, that's because they might not keep the No. 10 pick. They are trying to find a deal that brings them a star in the draft and/or allows them to move Richard Jefferson to clear cap space for the summer of 2010. Right now, it looks as though the cap space solution is the more likely option for New Jersey.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/i...radetalk-080618

Ford has very good sources inside the Nets...always has. What the above suggests is that the Nets are in cap-clearing mode, meaning they are looking to cut expenses, which should not be surprising based on what is going on in the real estate arena.

It means RJ for expiring contracts.
 
My "worst case scenario" is where they DON'T trade RJ.
 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! i read the lamar odom for RJ trade which i guess i wouldn't mind. MY WORST NIGHTMARE is drafting robin lopez at #10... which draftexpress suggests.... that would be the most horrible pick ever at #10. Please let eric gordon drop.

I thought Thorn said we weren't in rebuilding mode and that we want to be contenders again for next season.... damn you for ruining my life thron
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Jun 19 2008, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't mind rebuilding. I'd like to have draft picks to rebuild with.</div>
NI said that chances are they'll deal the #10 along with RJ for expiring contracts.
 
This isn't as bad as it could seem. First, it seems that LeBron (or Wade or Bosh) is more than a pipe dream, that it could actually happen and the Nets are looking to do it. Also, not all expirings are like Swift or LaFrentz, guys like Sheed and Odom are expiring, we could be looking at one of them. And if we were to get LaFrentz, we could likely get pieces and/or picks too. And with #10, 13, 21, 33, 40 or something, we could move up in the draft a few times, maybe wind up with Mayo or Beasley. Or maybe Barbosa, Bell, 15 for RJ and 10, where we could take Robin or Rush. There are a lot of options if this is true.
 
I love everything RJ has done for us but Thorn pulling another one of his heists in dealing him is gonna be really really tricky.

I think it's good they're looking to cut long term contracts and RJ's is pretty crappy. Vince is a better piece to transition with and he should be the guy eating up the most money on our payroll.

I know it's not glamorous to dump RJ and the 10 for say a guy like Odom, who could very well be a 1 year rental, but because of RJ's contract we have to spice it up some how and the 10th pick is our only real gem of an asset. Truthfully Odom's expiring deal, even with the glamor of expiring deals waining, is a pretty valuable piece to LA and we will need to give them a heck of a sales job that RJ is a missing piece to their championship puzzle.

We can still get a quality player at the 21 and 40 spot. If there ever was a draft to pull a move like this, this would be the one.
 
Ford is also the one who last week suggested the stupidest Rasheed trade ever. I think this is tied more to his trade scenario than to anything he's hearing in the Nets front office.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>5. New Jersey's Richard Jefferson, Nenad Krstic (via sign-and-trade) and No. 10 pick for Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince

This is a deal that the Nets, especially, would be motivated to do. But it would have to wait until free agents could sign their deals in mid-July.

The Nets are trying to find ways to clear cap space for the summer of 2010 to be in the running for LeBron James. This deal would help them achieve that goal. While Prince and Jefferson both have four more years on their contracts, Prince makes roughly $4 million less a year than Jefferson. In the meantime, Wallace and Prince would keep the team competitive in the East.

The Pistons would get another big-time scorer in Jefferson. And Krstic looked like a potential All-Star big man before he tore his ACL about 18 months ago. He is finally getting back to 100 percent, and the Pistons could probably get him at a reasonable number to shore up their front line. With the 10th pick in the draft, the team would have to take whomever the Nets selected. But considering that all signs point to New Jersey going big here, it would likely be another big body who could help.</div>
Why would the Nets trade Jefferson, Krstic and the #10 for Sheed and Prince? Detroit wants to unload Sheed.
Sounds more like a Pistons fans hopeful wishing.

I like Prince, but Jefferson is still much better. RJ, Swift and KVH for Sheed and Prince should be more than enough. Pistons need to get rid of Sheed.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 19 2008, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love everything RJ has done for us but Thorn pulling another one of his heists in dealing him is gonna be really really tricky.

I think it's good they're looking to cut long term contracts and RJ's is pretty crappy. Vince is a better piece to transition with and he should be the guy eating up the most money on our payroll.

I know it's not glamorous to dump RJ and the 10 for say a guy like Odom, who could very well be a 1 year rental, but because of RJ's contract we have to spice it up some how and the 10th pick is our only real gem of an asset. Truthfully Odom's expiring deal, even with the glamor of expiring deals waining, is a pretty valuable piece to LA and we will need to give them a heck of a sales job that RJ is a missing piece to their championship puzzle.

We can still get a quality player at the 21 and 40 spot. If there ever was a draft to pull a move like this, this would be the one.</div>

I dont see how this happens. Why are we trading RJ+10 for Odom. Something is missing. No way Odom is worth that. RJ for Odom maybe but not with the 10 pick.

It is sad that if Thorn and Kiki are dumping salaries VC is coming back from an injury. If we are dumping we have to dump everything. VC(atleast if he was healthy) or RJ for Odom makes sense.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jun 19 2008, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ford is also the one who last week suggested the stupidest Rasheed trade ever. I think this is tied more to his trade scenario than to anything he's hearing in the Nets front office.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>5. New Jersey's Richard Jefferson, Nenad Krstic (via sign-and-trade) and No. 10 pick for Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince

This is a deal that the Nets, especially, would be motivated to do. But it would have to wait until free agents could sign their deals in mid-July.

The Nets are trying to find ways to clear cap space for the summer of 2010 to be in the running for LeBron James. This deal would help them achieve that goal. While Prince and Jefferson both have four more years on their contracts, Prince makes roughly $4 million less a year than Jefferson. In the meantime, Wallace and Prince would keep the team competitive in the East.

The Pistons would get another big-time scorer in Jefferson. And Krstic looked like a potential All-Star big man before he tore his ACL about 18 months ago. He is finally getting back to 100 percent, and the Pistons could probably get him at a reasonable number to shore up their front line. With the 10th pick in the draft, the team would have to take whomever the Nets selected. But considering that all signs point to New Jersey going big here, it would likely be another big body who could help.</div>
Why would the Nets trade Jefferson, Krstic and the #10 for Sheed and Prince? Detroit wants to unload Sheed.
Sounds more like a Pistons fans hopeful wishing.

I like Prince, but Jefferson is still much better. RJ, Swift and KVH for Sheed and Prince should be more than enough. Pistons need to get rid of Sheed.
</div>
Huh? RJ is a tad better offensively but Prince is a much better defender and is more efficient.

I don't think Pistons would trade Prince for RJ straight up.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Jun 19 2008, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm all for expirings+youth for RJ, but losing our 10th too? Bleh.</div>


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jun 19 2008, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Jun 19 2008, 08:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't mind rebuilding. I'd like to have draft picks to rebuild with.</div>
NI said that chances are they'll deal the #10 along with RJ for expiring contracts.
</div>

I realize.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 19 2008, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love everything RJ has done for us but Thorn pulling another one of his heists in dealing him is gonna be really really tricky.</div>

You might be right, but it also might be easier than you think. He had the tenth highest scoring average in the league! He's a winner! He's in the prime of his career! I think he would be a great acquisition for a team either looking for the last missing piece, or (more importantly) a team trying to create the illusion for its fan base that they are going all-out and trying to contend, when they are really just trying to save money and get more fans to buy season ticket plans. I mean, teams have different priorities. To change sports, why did the Pirates sign Matt Morris? To convince people that they are at least "trying." If the Clippers lose Brand, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they became immediately interested in RJ--they could say that they were replacing Brand with a top-ten scorer, and we could probably figure out a way that they could save money to boot. Maybe Tim Thomas and Mobley, or maybe they S&T Brand. Of course they would toss in the rights to the #7 pick--that is a $2 million savings right there. Maybe they also take back Marcus.

Anyway. I'm just making stuff up on the fly. My point is just that some organizations may want RJ for other reasons, such as to look good whether or not they are actually improving. RJ would be a great public relations coup--it's not often that a team can acquire a 20 point scorer that is not a locker-room headache.

You got to recognize that the nets are not going to contend next year. There is too much uncertainty, too many changes on the horizon. And I'm not just talking about the draft. You're going to have an entire new coaching staff; you may have no returning center. There will have to be a couple of free-agency signings, and we know how that has worked out in the past. Right now, this team is Devin Harris, Vince Carter, Josh Boone, and fill in the blanks. 20% of the salary is tied up in Stromile Swift and Trent hassell, who I think are untradable and useless.
 
RJ<Prince. Prince also makes 4 million less after 2010, but plays the same position as LeBron. Trade Prince for picks and youth, or move Bron to SG?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Jun 19 2008, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hassell expires after 2009. 4 million more to work with.</div>

I thnk Hassell is around for two more years. He might have a player option or something like that
 
Swift is not untradeable. That's absurd.

If Chad Ford is writing that RJ sucks so much that it takes a lottery pick to move him, then it's true.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 19 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jun 19 2008, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I love everything RJ has done for us but Thorn pulling another one of his heists in dealing him is gonna be really really tricky.</div>

You might be right, but it also might be easier than you think. He had the tenth highest scoring average in the league! He's a winner! He's in the prime of his career! I think he would be a great acquisition for a team either looking for the last missing piece, or (more importantly) a team trying to create the illusion for its fan base that they are going all-out and trying to contend, when they are really just trying to save money and get more fans to buy season ticket plans. I mean, teams have different priorities. To change sports, why did the Pirates sign Matt Morris? To convince people that they are at least "trying." If the Clippers lose Brand, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they became immediately interested in RJ--they could say that they were replacing Brand with a top-ten scorer, and we could probably figure out a way that they could save money to boot. Maybe Tim Thomas and Mobley, or maybe they S&T Brand. Of course they would toss in the rights to the #7 pick--that is a $2 million savings right there. Maybe they also take back Marcus.

Anyway. I'm just making stuff up on the fly. My point is just that some organizations may want RJ for other reasons, such as to look good whether or not they are actually improving. RJ would be a great public relations coup--it's not often that a team can acquire a 20 point scorer that is not a locker-room headache.

You got to recognize that the nets are not going to contend next year. There is too much uncertainty, too many changes on the horizon. And I'm not just talking about the draft. You're going to have an entire new coaching staff; you may have no returning center. There will have to be a couple of free-agency signings, and we know how that has worked out in the past. Right now, this team is Devin Harris, Vince Carter, Josh Boone, and fill in the blanks. 20% of the salary is tied up in Stromile Swift and Trent hassell, who I think are untradable and useless.
</div>Heh. My dream scenario is
"On June 25, Elton Brand has informed the Clippers that he will take advantage of the opt-out clause in his contract."
"On June 26th, Elgin Baylor has 'regretfully' traded Elton Brand, Cuttino Mobley and #7 pick for Richard Jeffersin, Keith Van Horn, Stromile Swift, Trenton Hassell and #10 and #21 picks"
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Astral @ Jun 19 2008, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Heh. My dream scenario is
"On June 25, Elton Brand has informed the Clippers that he will take advantage of the opt-out clause in his contract."
"On June 26th, Elgin Baylor has 'regretfully' traded Elton Brand, Cuttino Mobley and #7 pick for Richard Jeffersin, Keith Van Horn, Stromile Swift, Trenton Hassell and #10 and #21 picks"</div>

Some combination where the Nets get Brand, give up RJ, and keep at least once lottery pick would be pretty good.

Two fascinating subplots for me over the next week will be to see what Seattle and Portland do. Between them, they have TEN picks in the draft--and they both pretty much have full rosters of guarranteed contracts. What those two teams decide to do will reverberate throughout the rest of the draft--and will be the impetus for a number of trades, I think.
 
There are certain realities out there, I think:

1. Thorn ALWAYS tries to move up in the first round and sometimes in the second. He tried to trade #22 and #23 (plus someone unnamed) to the Sonics for the #10 in 2006 so they could pick Hilton Armstrong. They tried to trade up to get Sean May who they desperately wanted in 2005. In the second round that year, they tried to trade up mid-draft to get Monta Ellis. All of that has been documented.

2. The Nets are in love with Love. There has been no dimunition of that love even when he spurned them. They want him. D'Alessandro hinted about that the other day. Ford hinted at it more vaguely today.

3. If the Nets trade RJ, it will be for the same sort of deal they did with Kidd on one end, for Carter on the other, the same sort of deal the Wolves did with Garnett, the Sonics did with Allen, the Grizz did with Gasol, etc. etc. The Nets will NOT get equal value. If you expect that, youre foolish. Sad to use that word, but it's the reality.

4. The Nets are into player development. Kiki talks about it. Thorn talks about it. Could it be a cover for going cheap? It could. "Fallen angels", developing draft choices is a lot cheaper.

All that said, I would bet the Nets are in talks involving RJ with teams they think will take Love before that. That would include Minnesota, Memphis, and the Clippers. Look at those rosters for expiring contracts.

Here's a question: Why is Kevin McHale so desperate to work out Gallinari?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 19 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#1_Yinka_Dare_Fan @ Jun 19 2008, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://sportstwo.com/NBA/LeagueSalaries


LeBron has a player option the same year.</div>

Forget that.

LeBron is a free agent in the summer of 2010.

RJ needs to be gone by then.
</div>
That was for Hassell.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 19 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All that said, I would bet the Nets are in talks involving RJ with teams they think will take Love before that. That would include Minnesota, Memphis, and the Clippers. Look at those rosters for expiring contracts.

Here's a question: Why is Kevin McHale so desperate to work out Gallinari?</div>


I don't know about that. Brewer was a top 10 pick last year and looks like he could end up being pretty good. I also think his game is more suited to a starting role similar to Prince. He doesn't have the quick offense capability to excell off the bench. So they would be adding Jefferson who plays the same position and then drafting another 3 in Gallinari?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ryan @ Jun 19 2008, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 19 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All that said, I would bet the Nets are in talks involving RJ with teams they think will take Love before that. That would include Minnesota, Memphis, and the Clippers. Look at those rosters for expiring contracts.

Here's a question: Why is Kevin McHale so desperate to work out Gallinari?</div>


I don't know about that. Brewer was a top 10 pick last year and looks like he could end up being pretty good. I also think his game is more suited to a starting role similar to Prince. He doesn't have the quick offense capability to excell off the bench. So they would be adding Jefferson who plays the same position and then drafting another 3 in Gallinari?
</div>

memphis has gay too, and la has thornton. Unless we're getting either back, or they plan on playing them at the 4, that probably wouldn't work.
 
I hate it when people do this, but I just love you too much to resist so forgive me: comments incorporated in bold.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 19 2008, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>There are certain realities out there, I think:

1. Thorn ALWAYS tries to move up in the first round and sometimes in the second. well, not always. I remember one draft where he moved down. He tried to trade #22 and #23 (plus someone unnamed) to the Sonics for the #10 in 2006 so they could pick Hilton Armstrong. They tried to trade up to get Sean May who they desperately wanted in 2005. In the second round that year, they tried to trade up mid-draft to get Monta Ellis. All of that has been documented. Perhaps we should read this as more evidence that Thorn has no clue what he is doing when it comes to evaluating talent, especially bigs. I am still VERY interested in learning who is calling the shots at the draft this year: Thorn, or Kiki?

2. The Nets are in love with Love. There has been no dimunition of that love even when he spurned them. They want him. D'Alessandro hinted about that the other day. Ford hinted at it more vaguely today. In light of the above, I'm a little afraid.

3. If the Nets trade RJ, it will be for the same sort of deal they did with Kidd on one end, for Carter on the other, the same sort of deal the Wolves did with Garnett, the Sonics did with Allen, the Grizz did with Gasol, etc. etc. The Nets will NOT get equal value. If you expect that, youre foolish. Sad to use that word, but it's the reality. To be honest, I don't know what "equal value" is in this case. How much does RJ really contribute? How much better is he than someone like Martell Webster? He can't carry the team by himself, and doesn't dominate the fast break like he used to. It's become generally accepted that RJ played pitiful defense last year. Why? Is this the best chance to get ANYTHING of value for him in a deal, when at least he looks like a scorer?

4. The Nets are into player development. Kiki talks about it. Thorn talks about it. Could it be a cover for going cheap? It could. "Fallen angels", developing draft choices is a lot cheaper. It's possible, but I prefer to think of it as realising what we've been discussing all year: it makes no sense to fill out the roster with middling veterans (who are replaced after one season, a never-ending revolving door of ineptitude), and that the league is full of young kids who went undrafted or were released by their first team, but have become productive--but the Nets have never bothered to look for them. There are a lot of teams that are both successful and NOT cheap that prefer this sort of player. I want the Nets to be one of them. Really, who wanted to root for Scott Padgett?

All that said, I would bet the Nets are in talks involving RJ with teams they think will take Love before that. That would include Minnesota, Memphis, and the Clippers. Look at those rosters for expiring contracts. Minnesota claims that it has no interest in veterans. I think the Clippers would work as I mentioned before, because of the "illusion" that they will be trying to win. I don't think anyone has any idea what Memphis is thinking.

Here's a question: Why is Kevin McHale so desperate to work out Gallinari? that's an interesting thought.</div>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 19 2008, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Swift is not untradeable. That's absurd.

If Chad Ford is writing that RJ sucks so much that it takes a lottery pick to move him, then it's true.</div>
Or he has a hard on for the Pistons and thinks that Rasheed actually has significant value.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jun 19 2008, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>3. If the Nets trade RJ, it will be for the same sort of deal they did with Kidd on one end, for Carter on the other, the same sort of deal the Wolves did with Garnett, the Sonics did with Allen, the Grizz did with Gasol, etc. etc. The Nets will NOT get equal value. If you expect that, youre foolish. Sad to use that word, but it's the reality. To be honest, I don't know what "equal value" is in this case. How much does RJ really contribute? How much better is he than someone like Martell Webster? He can't carry the team by himself, and doesn't dominate the fast break like he used to. It's become generally accepted that RJ played pitiful defense last year. Why? Is this the best chance to get ANYTHING of value for him in a deal, when at least he looks like a scorer?

4. The Nets are into player development. Kiki talks about it. Thorn talks about it. Could it be a cover for going cheap? It could. "Fallen angels", developing draft choices is a lot cheaper. It's possible, but I prefer to think of it as realising what we've been discussing all year: it makes no sense to fill out the roster with middling veterans (who are replaced after one season, a never-ending revolving door of ineptitude), and that the league is full of young kids who went undrafted or were released by their first team, but have become productive--but the Nets have never bothered to look for them. There are a lot of teams that are both successful and NOT cheap that prefer this sort of player. I want the Nets to be one of them. Really, who wanted to root for Scott Padgett?</div>
That's what I was thinking, with the RJ bit. I mean, what the hell is RJ's value? Sure, he scores alot. But it seems he's lost every facet of his game that made him good. To the point where, anything involving an expiring contract and a young player (involved in the trade, or through FA signing[JH]) would be better than having RJ. Because his game hurts the team that much.

Also, with #4, I like that idea. I hope that's the FO mindset from now on, it makes this team much easier to root for.
 
I still think we are trading to Portland for expiring.

Channing Frye
Sergio Rodriguez
Raef LaFrentz
Martell Webster
13th pick

for

Richard Jefferson
Trenton Hassell
Marcus Williams
 
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