I am so sick of Greg Oden.

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You're silly if you don't think Greg is doing things for us right now or helping. He definitely is.

The biggest thing our team is suffering from isn't a solid scoring option behind Roy. It's solid offensive schemes ( and defensive schemes too but is another issue entirely) to take advantage of the scoring options besides Roy. That's a coaching issue that needs to be corrected. We've basically got three offensive schemes with one side dish occasionally thrown in.

1a. The Roy Iso.
1b. The pick and roll/pop that leads to us hardly ever hitting the roller and instead having a lot of contested jumpers.
2. The Travis Iso.
Side dish: Occasional LaMarcus/Greg postup.

It's those schemes and a bunch of other players standing around. Considering this has happened the entire time Nate has been here with several different groups of players I think we can conclude this is a Nate issue and not entirely a player issue.

Imagine this team utilizing Rudy's movement more. Implementing consistent cutters down the middle when Greg and LMA post up? Back door cutters, double screens for three point shooters and open jump shots instead of contested ones?

Greg does things wrong as I said in another post: brings his arms down too much, gets too much body contact sometimes, loses a defensive rotation. These are all correctable - you lose your timing after missing a month off, he missed a year and is coming off a major surgery (and a lot of you seem to want to downplay the significance of coming off MF surgery) and had never played in the NBA before like other players with the same surgery had to fall back on at least. He'll fix these things people. There is a reason he was a good defender in college.

But he also boxes out well, he'll battle for boards and while he may not grab them he'll tip them out towards his teammates. A lot of those same teammates who decide to just let their guy blow by them and get the rebound because they don't move towards it. That isn't Greg's fault.

He also affects shots and players driving the lane. He does pick up fouls on the perimeter and gets blown by when he's on a guard - but that is a defensive scheme issue because Nate doesn't have his players fight through a lot of screens which gives the other team the mismatch they want. That's never a good sign for a coach to concede to the other team a mismatch - it also sends a message to the refs that you aren't fighting through screens and aren't being aggressive.

You can point out a lot of things wrong with Greg but again they all look and will be correctable in my opinion. He's being made to look a lot worse than he actually is because of some schemes we're using and that's no good for him.

I have always hated Utah but can you imagine this team after a year or two of having Jerry Sloan as their coach? We would still have to find a pg if Bayless couldn't hack it, but I think he could.
 
We need a PG that can help Oden be in a position to succeed. We don't have now and I'm extremely skeptical that guy is on the bench.
 
You're silly if you don't think Greg is doing things for us right now or helping. He definitely is.

The biggest thing our team is suffering from isn't a solid scoring option behind Roy. It's solid offensive schemes ( and defensive schemes too but is another issue entirely) to take advantage of the scoring options besides Roy. That's a coaching issue that needs to be corrected. We've basically got three offensive schemes with one side dish occasionally thrown in.

1a. The Roy Iso.
1b. The pick and roll/pop that leads to us hardly ever hitting the roller and instead having a lot of contested jumpers.
2. The Travis Iso.
Side dish: Occasional LaMarcus/Greg postup.

It's those schemes and a bunch of other players standing around. Considering this has happened the entire time Nate has been here with several different groups of players I think we can conclude this is a Nate issue and not entirely a player issue.

Imagine this team utilizing Rudy's movement more. Implementing consistent cutters down the middle when Greg and LMA post up? Back door cutters, double screens for three point shooters and open jump shots instead of contested ones?

Greg does things wrong as I said in another post: brings his arms down too much, gets too much body contact sometimes, loses a defensive rotation. These are all correctable - you lose your timing after missing a month off, he missed a year and is coming off a major surgery (and a lot of you seem to want to downplay the significance of coming off MF surgery) and had never played in the NBA before like other players with the same surgery had to fall back on at least. He'll fix these things people. There is a reason he was a good defender in college.

But he also boxes out well, he'll battle for boards and while he may not grab them he'll tip them out towards his teammates. A lot of those same teammates who decide to just let their guy blow by them and get the rebound because they don't move towards it. That isn't Greg's fault.

He also affects shots and players driving the lane. He does pick up fouls on the perimeter and gets blown by when he's on a guard - but that is a defensive scheme issue because Nate doesn't have his players fight through a lot of screens which gives the other team the mismatch they want. That's never a good sign for a coach to concede to the other team a mismatch - it also sends a message to the refs that you aren't fighting through screens and aren't being aggressive.

You can point out a lot of things wrong with Greg but again they all look and will be correctable in my opinion. He's being made to look a lot worse than he actually is because of some schemes we're using and that's no good for him.


OMFG that was the longest post I have ever seen. Not even going to try and read that.
 
I have always hated Utah but can you imagine this team after a year or two of having Jerry Sloan as their coach? We would still have to find a pg if Bayless couldn't hack it, but I think he could.

I imagine the team having most anyone but Nate and get happy.

One big thing for me and this has nothing to do with Nate's actual drawing up schemes and sets: Get a damn t for your players, Nate. Greg gets a lot of legit fouls, but he also gets a fair share of ticky tacky ones that are just real morale killers for him. He's going to keep getting these if Nate doesn't stand up for him and pick up a t. Fight for your rookie big man! Show him you have his damn back when he's getting a foul for Shaq throwing himself out of bounds.
 
He sucks. He is nothing. He is not a #1 pick. He is a 2nd rounder. We fucked up yet again. We should have taken Durant. Can you imagine our team with another scorer as good as Roy, if not better?

JJ Barea with 8 rebounds and Greg with 5? Wow. Greg sucks. I am off the Oden bandwagon.

Greg Oden for Yi Jianlian, straight up! I've already talked to Rod Thorn, he's cool with it.
 
I imagine the team having most anyone but Nate and get happy.

One big thing for me and this has nothing to do with Nate's actual drawing up schemes and sets: Get a damn t for your players, Nate. Greg gets a lot of legit fouls, but he also gets a fair share of ticky tacky ones that are just real morale killers for him. He's going to keep getting these if Nate doesn't stand up for him and pick up a t. Fight for your rookie big man! Show him you have his damn back when he's getting a foul for Shaq throwing himself out of bounds.

Didn't LMA and Brandon say something in an article about how cheap Nate is? Maybe he doesn't want to pay the fine?

I think what it comes down to is that as a player he was instructed what to do in the grand scheme of things. I am just starting to think that he was successful despite the fact that he must have never realized WHY he was being coach that way.

Carlisle got a T and it didn't seem to hurt his team.
 
I agree that Oden is going to get better, but it sure can't happen fast enough. What's discouraging is that he doesn't seem to be growing as a player in any measurable sense. He doesn't seem to learn much from game to game, still doesn't have a shot outside of 2 feet, still looks slow, still seems lethargic, still seems lost, still commits a ton of fouls, etc., etc.

I know, I know, the guy is coming off an injury. I keep telling myself that, and keep hoping . . .
 
i "loved" how we had oden guarding bass at one end (a bad matchup quickness-wise) and guarded by dirk and his four fouls at the other end, yet never posted greg once. how can he help on offense if we never post him? and if dallas is playing dirk at center and bass at the four, why are we not going small? instead, nate went big, but didn't call a single post up to make dallas pay for our size advantage.
 
So who's Durant taking shots from? Seriously, I know he's on a hot streak now, while Oden's trying to get back, so it's ok to throw stuff like this out there. Blake, who's shooting 43% from 3? Outlaw would be on the bench. LMA? You're saying take away our low post option for another jump shooter? Joel wouldn't be getting shots. Roy?

It's nice to be able to dream this way, but I'd rather have the improvement on our interior D and rebounding.
 
Didn't LMA and Brandon say something in an article about how cheap Nate is? Maybe he doesn't want to pay the fine?

I think what it comes down to is that as a player he was instructed what to do in the grand scheme of things. I am just starting to think that he was successful despite the fact that he must have never realized WHY he was being coach that way.

Carlisle got a T and it didn't seem to hurt his team.

I don't recall the cheap thing. I guess a reason for not getting a tech at home is because it appears that about three 10-15 year old kids sit courtside right where he walks by and maybe he doesn't want to curse enough at a ref to get a tech by them? I know that's a fairly crazy reason but it is the only thing that fits in my mind.

Because there is no legit reason why he isn't out there fighting for Greg or any of his players in my mind. I mean even DOC RIVERS (I do not think Doc is a very good coach nothing against him I think he really succeeds by having a lot of veteran players who are smart especially like Ray Allen on his team) will get a t for his players.
 
I don't recall the cheap thing. I guess a reason for not getting a tech at home is because it appears that about three 10-15 year old kids sit courtside right where he walks by and maybe he doesn't want to curse enough at a ref to get a tech by them? I know that's a fairly crazy reason but it is the only thing that fits in my mind.

Because there is no legit reason why he isn't out there fighting for Greg or any of his players in my mind. I mean even DOC RIVERS (I do not think Doc is a very good coach nothing against him I think he really succeeds by having a lot of veteran players who are smart especially like Ray Allen on his team) will get a t for his players.

I don't think you have to curse to get a T. I am sure it helps but I don't think he has to.
 
Still on the GO bandwagon, never got off
Now the Nate wagon, thats another story
 
Think about this though for real. Greg isn't really doing that much for us right now. However good he becomes for whatever team... RIGHT NOW, he is not helping our team at all. Yet, we are still winning and playing pretty damn well.

Imagine Durant on our team. What is the biggest thing that our team is suffering from? Another solid scoring option behind Roy.

The bigger thing we are suffering from is lack of perimeter defense. Durant wouldn't help with that. Sure, he'd improve the offense, but he'd be a bit redundant as the team already has a number of scoring options.

And the reason perimeter defense is our biggest problem is because Oden is making a big difference in the team's strong interior defense and rebounding. If we had Durant instead of Oden, both of those would no longer be the strengths that they are.

If a year from now Oden looks the same, I'll worry. Right now, for his first 20 games or so after a year out of basketball, he's doing plenty. Lack of offensive dominance this early hardly screams, or even whispers "bust."
 
So who's Durant taking shots from? Seriously, I know he's on a hot streak now, while Oden's trying to get back, so it's ok to throw stuff like this out there. Blake, who's shooting 43% from 3? Outlaw would be on the bench. LMA? You're saying take away our low post option for another jump shooter? Joel wouldn't be getting shots. Roy?

It's nice to be able to dream this way, but I'd rather have the improvement on our interior D and rebounding.

KD is just "another jump shooter"? His 23 ppg is now on 46% FG's and he gets to the line 6 times/game (Roy is 7) Plus, when KD goes go deep he's 48% from beyond the arc. Let me tell you something - this "jump shooter" is going to win scoring titles.

I'd trade Oden and then some for Durrant today. We should have believed our eyes. Kevin Durrant was probably the most dominating college Freshman I've ever seen. He would go 35/20 and block a shot at the buzzer to preserve a win. I watched both play over and over that year. Greg was okay at OSU, but we gave him a hall pass b/c his hand was hurt. He still didn't have the best foot work and was often in foul trouble then. He had a good championship game with 25/12 against Florida and Horford/Noah. I remember not being nearly as impressed with Oden as I was with KD. But, they say a Good Big man is harder to find than a good SF . . . I think Portland fans will regret this pick. Maybe Greg proves me wrong.
 
You didn't answer the question, though. And yes, I admitted he's on a hot streak. He shot 28% from three the entire year last year. I'm not saying he'll stay there, but I'm also not saying that I think he'll shoot 48% all year. And I saw about 40 of his games last year. He's primarily a jump shooter, unless in transition.

Perhaps that's changed with his move to SF. Maybe he'll start winning scoring titles. Who is he taking the shots from? Roy or LMA? Oden/Przy/Batum don't get any to give up.
 
KD is just "another jump shooter"? His 23 ppg is now on 46% FG's and he gets to the line 6 times/game (Roy is 7) Plus, when KD goes go deep he's 48% from beyond the arc. Let me tell you something - this "jump shooter" is going to win scoring titles.

I'd trade Oden and then some for Durrant today. We should have believed our eyes. Kevin Durrant was probably the most dominating college Freshman I've ever seen. He would go 35/20 and block a shot at the buzzer to preserve a win. I watched both play over and over that year. Greg was okay at OSU, but we gave him a hall pass b/c his hand was hurt. He still didn't have the best foot work and was often in foul trouble then. He had a good championship game with 25/12 against Florida and Horford/Noah. I remember not being nearly as impressed with Oden as I was with KD. But, they say a Good Big man is harder to find than a good SF . . . I think Portland fans will regret this pick. Maybe Greg proves me wrong.

I don't care about scoring titles, just Championships. I think KD just puts up gawdy numbers because he is on such a bad team. He is a talent, I don't doubt that, but anytime someone is on a bad team you have to take their numbers with a grain of salt.
 
I am so sick of fans who don't know shit about basketball making threads like this...
 
oden is playing 22 mpg, if he was putting up 30 he would be 12/11/2, and nobody would be saying shit. so basically, pryz is our problem.

edit--i was kidding.
 
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I just look at Amare and the two years it took him to look like he'd be an actual NBA player again and then I keep trying to remind myself that Greg is on month fifteen when it takes about 24 to get back to full explosiveness, put that together with his rookie season and this is what you get: inconsistency.

Fuck, this is going to be a long season.
 
LOL... Durant. We def. need some more non-existant perimeter D and another jump shooter. Great idea.
 

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