I can see why Outlaw is the subject of every blazer trade rumor.

[MIXUM]

The guy doesnt fit with this team plain and simple. Hes the black sheep. Every bad run we had was basically with outlaw in this game. He turns the ball over, sucks on defense, and has no clue on bball fundamentals. Seriously outlaw needs to be traded. He doesnt fit with this group. I dont care what hes done in the 4th qtr. As many good plays he makes, he makes 100 more bad ones. I seriously cringe when outlaw gets teh ball at the top of teh key, puts his shoulder down like a RB and then throws a brick up. gross.

On a happy note. Aldridge has made me look like a complete a$$. Im glad cause it means the blazers are winning. GREAT F'IN WIN TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just hope aldridge stays this way and stops thinking about rebecca.

 

[tlongII]

Travis didn't play well today, but I still like him on the team. He can hit the 3-ball and that is important on this team.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

On a saner note, Outlaw hasn't been playing well.

Or rather, Batum has been simply outplaying him. At the beginning of the season, I saw Outlaw as untradable. After this win, I want Batum playing 30+ mpg every game. When Martell comes back, Travis looks like the odd man out.

 

[anonymous gambler]

on a happy note. Aldridge has made me look like a complete a$$. Im glad cause it means the blazers are winning. Great f'in win today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just hope aldridge stays this way and stops thinking about rebecca.

lmao!

 

[fumanchu]

Travis has been struggling, and he did have some cringe worthy plays, but it was his big three in the 4th that sparked the Blazers run to put the game away. He still has a role with this team and he will be needed so I don't want to trade him. But I agree Batum is starting to look like a Pippen type SF that will most likely be getting a majority of the PT in the future, and Martell is more of a compliment to him coming off the bench. That leaves Travis out unless he moves full time the PF.

 

[graybeard]

The guy doesnt fit with this team plain and simple. Hes the black sheep. Every bad run we had was basically with outlaw in this game. He turns the ball over, sucks on defense, and has no clue on bball fundamentals. Seriously outlaw needs to be traded. He doesnt fit with this group. I dont care what hes done in the 4th qtr. As many good plays he makes, he makes 100 more bad ones. I seriously cringe when outlaw gets teh ball at the top of teh key, puts his shoulder down like a RB and then throws a brick up. gross.

On a happy note. Aldridge has made me look like a complete a$$. Im glad cause it means the blazers are winning. GREAT F'IN WIN TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just hope aldridge stays this way and stops thinking about rebecca.

Rest assured that Outlaw will too.

 

[B-Roy]

Travis has been struggling, and he did have some cringe worthy plays, but it was his big three in the 4th that sparked the Blazers run to put the game away. He still has a role with this team and he will be needed so I don't want to trade him. But I agree Batum is starting to look like a Pippen type SF that will most likely be getting a majority of the PT in the future, and Martell is more of a compliment to him coming off the bench. That leaves Travis out unless he moves full time the PF.

It actually wasn't. After he hit that three, Sheed hit another one back. It was Brandon taking over that allowed us to make the run.

Rest assured that Outlaw will too.

He's proven this year and last that he likes making boneheaded plays.

 

[Ed O]

Outlaw's been very important to the team's success this year... but I still have my doubts about his long-term viability with this team, as well. *shrug* It's a nice problem to have.

Ed O.

 

[alex42083]

If anything, Travis has improved defensively a great deal. I don't see how he's sucked on defense this year.

The only thing still holding him back is his ball handling and ability to drive to the hoop. But when you have guys like Travis, Nicolas, LaMarcus, Greg and Joel on defense, those are A LOT of long-armed, athletic guys to try to get to the hole against. Our defense has been really good, and teams aren't just walking to the rim anymore for layups like they did last year a ton.
I'd keep Travis on this team, and make him the backup PF, which unfortunately leaves Channing out the loop and he only got five minutes today with Martell still out of the lineup.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Outlaw's been very important to the team's success this year... but I still have my doubts about his long-term viability with this team, as well. *shrug* It's a nice problem to have.

Ed O.

Agreed. There a lot of people here who think any mention of Outlaw in a trade is 'hate', but its a good problem to have. If we keep him he is not going to hurt us, and if we trade him I'm assured KP would be getting higher value back.

 

[Minstrel]

Outlaw is a good player. That makes him a nice player to keep. Conversely, it makes him great trade bait (bad players don't have much trade value, unless they have a LaFrentzian deal).

Whichever way Pritchard goes with Outlaw will work for me. I'd be happy to see him bolster our bench for years (if Outlaw is satisfied with that) and I'd be happy to see him used to bring in, say, a good point guard. Pritchard knows what to do.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Outlaw is what he is, and it's not "bad" so much as it's inconsistent. Beyond that though, I'd rather not focus on the negative and instead focus on the positive that is Nicolas Batum; the Blazers have their starting small forward of the future and that should make us all very pleased.

I caught myself saying aloud to my wife at least 4 times today, "Wow. I love Nicolas' game!" They guy is like the second coming of Jerome Kersey, or (fingers crossed) Scottie Pippen.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

If there is a reason to trade Outlaw it's the rise of Nicolas Batum. Of course, this all depends on how Webster returns.

 

[andalusian]

If there is a reason to trade Outlaw it's the rise of Nicolas Batum. Of course, this all depends on how Webster returns.

I really do not see what this has to do with Nicolas's emergence. Unless Martel has learned how to create for himself and close games strong - all it has done is allowed Portland to concentrate on looking for the PG of the future instead of the SF of the future. Seems to me like we are set with our starting and backup SF with Nic/Travis.

 

[Ed O]

I really do not see what this has to do with Nicolas's emergence. Unless Martel has learned how to create for himself and close games strong - all it has done is allowed Portland to concentrate on looking for the PG of the future instead of the SF of the future. Seems to me like we are set with our starting and backup SF with Nic/Travis.

When did Martell demonstrate an inability to "close games strong"?

Ed O.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Shhh Ed....we can assume that Travis has turned a corner in his 6th year and learned how to shoot the lights out and play tough D and pass...but Webster at 21/4th year can't possible be anything other than a stand-in-the-corner shooter with a career 39%.

Sorry...that was probably out of line. I'll add [/sarcasm] now.

 

[STOMP]

Shhh Ed....we can assume that Travis has turned a corner in his 6th year and learned how to shoot the lights out and play tough D and pass...but Webster at 21/4th year can't possible be anything other than a stand-in-the-corner shooter with a career 39%.

Sorry...that was probably out of line. I'll add [/sarcasm] now.

correcting your favorable math, Martell's career averages are 37% from 3's, 41% from the field, 75% from the line. Are those the numbers of a deadeye shooter? These percentages have been relatively stable throughout his career... not much of an upswing. Besides not excelling at rebounding, passing, or D the reason he's depicted as only a stand in the corner shooter is because when he tries to take guys off the dribble he gets stripped.

btw, in 5 days he's 22.

STOMP

 

[BrianFromWA]

I stand corrected. I thought the 38.8% was his career, not last year. Thanks.

I still think it's wild that Nate's called him specifically the defensive stopper last year and yet those who tend to prefer Outlaw praise Outlaw's D and say Webs doesn't excel at rebounding or D. That player usage doesn't factor into anyone's equation. I digress, though.

But as I've said multiple times, I'm trying very hard not to say anything about Webster or do any comparisons until he plays this year.

 

[shamelessblazer]

correcting your favorable math, Martell's career averages are 37% from 3's, 41% from the field, 75% from the line. Are those the numbers of a deadeye shooter?

btw, in 5 days he's 22.

STOMP

Glen Rice 3 points numbers at 22 - 24.6, 23 - 38.6, 24 - 39.1,
Jeff Hornacek 3 point numbers at 23 - 27.9, 24 - 29.3, 25 - 33.3
Reggie Miller 3 point numbers at 22 - 35, 23 - 40.2, 24 - 41.4

all with a 3 point line FURTHER IN

as for a more relevent current comparison (coming out of HS, playing stlye, Nate, body similarities)

Rashard Lewis at 19 - 16.7, 20 - 33.3

I'm not saying Martell will be one of the great shooters of all time, but unlike Outlaw he is known and defended for his shooting and has still managed to shoot fairly well in his short career. I see no reason for him not to improve, especially that we are now passing and screening much more and he should see many more open shots. Martell has always shot it around the arc and been a threat from every spot. Outlaw definitely has his hot spots and is defended much less on the perimeter (still) than Webster.
Those numbers sure do look like they could become the numbers of a dead-eye shooter, just an extremely young one.

 

[STOMP]

I still think it's wild that Nate's called him specifically the defensive stopper last year and yet those who tend to prefer Outlaw praise Outlaw's D and say Webs doesn't excel at rebounding or D.

sorry but Nate's quotes were that he felt Webster had the potential to be a defensive stopper not that he was one. Nate felt so strongly about Webster's ability to actually do that, that he rarely played him with the game on the line down the stretch. What to believe actions or misquotes? KP was so impressed with Martell's D that he openly pined for a wing defender throughout last year and going into the draft... then of course he traded up for Batum specifically siting his ability to defend.

I don't think highly of Travis or Martell's ability to defend... they both struggle on that end. Thats largely why I prefer Batum. I like Travis over Martell as the backup as TO is the better shooter, scorer, rebounder, draws more fouls, and gets more steals and blocks. He can also create his own shot which is an important skill.

I'm trying very hard not to say anything about Webster or do any comparisons until he plays this year.

You've regularly bashed Travis (while praising Martell) and compared them again and again. We'll see how things shake out soon enough.

STOMP

 

[oldmangrouch]

In some respects, this whole Travis-vs-Martell argument is silly.

Neither is a good defender. Webster is less of a liability 1-on-1, while Outlaw is perhaps more effective in a zone.

Neither is a good rebounder. Given size and leaping ability, that is more a knock on Outlaw.

Neither is a good ballhandler/playmaker. Given that Webster was once projected as a guard, that is more of a knock on him.

If things continue as the are, all we are arguing about is who will be Bahtoom's back-up! IMHO, the real question is which of the two will produce a better return in the trade market. All things being equal, I would rather hang on to Outlaw...but I suspect that outside of Portland he is the more highly valued commodity.

 

[STOMP]

I'm not saying Martell will be one of the great shooters of all time, but unlike Outlaw he is known and defended for his shooting and has still managed to shoot fairly well in his short career. I see no reason for him not to improve, especially that we are now passing and screening much more and he should see many more open shots. Martell has always shot it around the arc and been a threat from every spot. Outlaw definitely has his hot spots and is defended much less on the perimeter (still) than Webster.
Those numbers sure do look like they could become the numbers of a dead-eye shooter, just an extremely young one.

puhleeeze. Outlaw was the threat of the 2nd unit last year and was defended as such on most every shot he took, yet he shot 40% from deep. This year he's at 50% and you're trying to say he's accomplishing this flying under the radar? Get real.

STOMP

 

[KingSpeed]

Batum is awesome. I want him to be our starting SF for the rest of his career. He plays good defense, he rebounds, he plays well with our star guys, and he knocks down open shots as well as anyone on our team. He will only get better. He's the real deal and a keeper. I like Webster and Outlaw too though. Bring Webs off the bench and move Outlaw to the 4. I like Frye too, though. Oh boy. As long as we win, I'll be okay with what we do.

 

[craigehlo]

Batum really no longer makes me think about who we should keep between Outlaw and Webster.

Have to agree with that sentiment. It's pretty telling that a rookie can come in and knock off two players that we have been grooming for years. If Martell shoots above his ho-hum career average in FG% after returning, then I think he should stay as the 6th man. But if he's the same old Webster, keep TO since he's an option at PF.

 

[andalusian]

When did Martell demonstrate an inability to "close games strong"?

Ed O.

During his first and 2nd year and the start of last year before Nate started going with Travis at the end of games - since he was able to show time and again that he can create his own shot when the games were close and there was a need to find someone else (in addition to Brandon) who could score when the opposing team was playing tough D.

Let's face it - at the end of close games you need some of the following attributes:

1. Ability to create for himself - not a Webster specialty - something Travis does well.
2. Ability to handle the ball under pressure - not a Webster specialty - Travis is not great here either but he is better than Webster.
3. Great rebounding - Niether of these guys really distinguish themselves from each-other.
4. Defense - Split again - Webster is a better man-to-man defender, Travis does a better job as a help-defender.
5. Good outside shot when the defense collapses on Brandon/Aldridge/Whoever - Both work well in this capacity - but Travis actually shoots better from the outside than Webster now.

What is there not to understand?

 

[MIXUM]

unless batum falls apart, its really not close when comparing his game to webster or outlaw.

if batum can get a consistant 3 ball...webster becomes a bench player at best

 

[Ed O]

During his first and 2nd year and the start of last year before Nate started going with Travis at the end of games - since he was able to show time and again that he can create his own shot when the games were close and there was a need to find someone else (in addition to Brandon) who could score when the opposing team was playing tough D.

Let's face it - at the end of close games you need some of the following attributes:

1. Ability to create for himself - not a Webster specialty - something Travis does well.
2. Ability to handle the ball under pressure - not a Webster specialty - Travis is not great here either but he is better than Webster.
3. Great rebounding - Niether of these guys really distinguish themselves from each-other.
4. Defense - Split again - Webster is a better man-to-man defender, Travis does a better job as a help-defender.
5. Good outside shot when the defense collapses on Brandon/Aldridge/Whoever - Both work well in this capacity - but Travis actually shoots better from the outside than Webster now.

What is there not to understand?

You're bringing up, as evidence of what Webster cannot do, his play as a teenager. That's one of the things I fail to understand.

Another thing I fail to understand is why Outlaw's ability to create when only Roy is on the floor is as pertinent now that we have LaMarcus and Oden who can get shots and draw fouls (and double teams) at the end of games.

We'll see what Webster does when he gets back. People are going to be surprised, I have a feeling, one way or the other.

Ed O.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Man I love that we finally have an answer to the Webster or Outlaw question: Batum. And it's not even close as far as I'm concerned.

 

[MIXUM]

why batum over webster?

doesn't seem to have mood swings.
always makes plays regardless wether his shot is falling.
doesn't sulk.
plays better defense.
is long.

All martell has over batum is a 3pt shot. webster is a "decent defender" but i wll go as far as saying batum is better in 18 games then webster has been his whole career and that is just sad on websters part.



why is batum better then outlaw?

doesnt have a deer in headlight look
actually understand basic basketball fundamentals
doesnt put his head/shoulders down like a running back and take bad shots that end up bricks
plays solid defense rather then an occasional block
doesnt look awkward on the court

Outlaw has shot the 3 ball well but other then that, batum is a better basketball player 18 games in which again either says batum is gonna be a great player or outlaw just doesnt have "it."

 

[andalusian]

You're bringing up, as evidence of what Webster cannot do, his play as a teenager. That's one of the things I fail to understand.

Another thing I fail to understand is why Outlaw's ability to create when only Roy is on the floor is as pertinent now that we have LaMarcus and Oden who can get shots and draw fouls (and double teams) at the end of games.

We'll see what Webster does when he gets back. People are going to be surprised, I have a feeling, one way or the other.

The only evidence I have is the fact that Nate and his staff, who did see them play all the time - chose not to put him in late in the games. In comparison - they chose to put Travis and they now choose to put Nic in.

The only evidence you have that he can do it is we need to wait and see what he can do this year?

I wish Webster nothing but the best - I hope he will turn to be a great ball handler, a more consistent long-ball shooter and a guy who can create for himself - but history is not on his side so far. Really - I wish no ill to Webster - he is definitely a good guy who says all the right things, never seems to be a distraction and never seems to be unprepared physically. The only thing I have to go about is that the only thing that is going for him as far as becoming an average or better player (something he has not done yet) is his age.

As for why we still need someone who can create when we have Aldridge and Oden in the game? I think that as time passes on we will hopefully need it less - but Oden is not ready offensively, period - and LaMarcus is inconsistent. LaMarcus also, let's be fair - really works well when he gets free on pick and roll or pick and pop situations - he needs someone (Roy, mostly) to set him up for this.

With Travis - even if he is covered when you get him the ball and all else fails - you know he will be able to get a shot off. It's not always the best one - but sometimes you need someone who can take these tough shots and nail them in some kind of regularity. Travis is capable of doing it. Webster never did. I would say that I have a lot more confidence in Nic being able to get them than Webster - he moves very well attacking the basket with the dribble - we mostly see it now in transition - but we have never seen it with Webster. Martell finishes good on a break when he out-runs his defender or soars for a dunk from an alley-opp. Nic can move his body with the dribble to go around the defender.