Tech I got a Windows 10 laptop

[barfo]

And dont get me started on mac's technical support, they charge you $50 to ask a question and they look up the answer in their database that you have access to. it's like paying someone $50 to let me google that for you. it's a fucking scam to rip off old people that can't use the internet.

So, your position is that Apple should provide free googling services to people who don't know how to use the internet?

Wouldn't that effectively transfer that cost to all the other customers of Apple?

Seems sort of socialist, if you ask me.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

The laptop now has a thick black line across the screen near the top. I took it back to best buy and they sent it in for repairs. I'm without the damned thing for a couple of weeks.

I didn't drop it or even use it as a tablet. I moved it from my desk to a table in the living room a few times, and that's it.

Welcome to Windows and CHEAP computers.

Meanwhile, my 2015 MacBook Pro is working like a champ.

 

[Denny Crane]

What a clusterfuck. A clown car just pulled up and out piled a bunch of Microsoft support people.

I've literally been on the phone with them for 45 minutes. All I want to do is transfer the $99 windows 10 pro upgrade to the replacement laptop I got today.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah, so I got this thick black line across the laptop screen. I find a thread on reddit where the OP asked if anyone else was having this issue and then a bunch of "me, too!" replies.

NOT.
APPLE.
QUALITY.
CONTROL.

Anyhow, I call Lenovo and they tell me to take it in to best buy/geek squad. Geek squad sent it to a repair center and 2 weeks later (2 weeks without my laptop, geez), I get an email telling me they're going to replace it.

I go to best buy and they give me a new laptop, which is great. I have to set it up from scratch again.

I paid $99 to upgrade the old one to PRO and figure I paid to have PRO on the replacement, too.

I've been on hold for 5+ minutes at a time, talked to 5 or 6 different people at Microsoft support, and still no resolution.

There's no product key for my purchase in the email they sent verifying the purchase, nor online in my account at microsoft.com. It does show the purchase, etc., but no product key.

I'm really ][ <- close to just installing linux on it and calling it a day.

 

[Denny Crane]

Finally got the upgrade done. 59:33 seconds (my phone has an elapsed time on the display).

How not to do technical support.

 

[andalusian]

Someone once told me that only rich people can buy cheap products. If your use is not trivial - it pays to pay up-front for better hardware.

FWIW - while I do have an old Yoga Pro here from Lenovo - I believe that my next portable machine will come directly from Microsoft - not from Lenovo - these are not the same people that used to make the good old ThinkPads - even if they can still use the name.

 

[Denny Crane]

I was dazzled by the tech specs at the price.

$1250 for the 7700HQ processor, true 4K screen, 500G SSD, 16G of RAM, NVIDIA 1050 graphics card.

It's 2 years newer technology than in my 15" Macbook Pro. It's roughly the same experience (dimensions, retina resolution, memory size, SSD performance, etc.). Some things better, some not so much.

The reviews on this computer are extremely good. But I have higher expectations than people going from bad to slightly better

 

[andalusian]

I was dazzled by the tech specs at the price.

$1250 for the 7700HQ processor, true 4K screen, 500G SSD, 16G of RAM, NVIDIA 1050 graphics card.

It's 2 years newer technology than in my 15" Macbook Pro. It's roughly the same experience (dimensions, retina resolution, memory size, SSD performance, etc.). Some things better, some not so much.

The reviews on this computer are extremely good. But I have higher expectations than people going from bad to slightly better

I am not sure what the issue is - since I do not have any experience with this specific machine - but my Yoga Pro has always had issues with drivers etc... - great tech specs for the era - a lot of stuff around it which was a real hassle.

We have people that have Surface Pro or Surface Books seem to be pretty happy with them - so I suspect that this will be my next one - I have also heard good things about the XPS Dells as well (not the entry level plastic boxes the spew) - but those, like the Surface machines cost more for the same kinds of specs.

Hope your machine gets better once it is stabilized.

 

[THE HCP]

A review of my new laptop.

Ugh. I finally broke down and got a Windows 10 laptop. It's the only thing I have that runs Windows. I haven't had a Windows computer since Windows 7, about 5 years ago (maybe even longer). I typically install Ubuntu on a Windows computer and actually enjoy using the computer. If I needed Windows to run some proprietary app, it'd be Windows in a virtual machine, like VirtualBox, under Ubuntu.

The machine I got is a Lenovo 2-in-1, 720, with 4K screen and i7 7700hq processor, and Nvidia 1050 (2G) graphics card, 16G RAM, 512G SSD. The technical specs are superior to my 2015 MacBook Pro.

Yet...

I had to use the Nvidia confuration/settings app to tell it to use the 1050 for rendering ALL applications, otherwise the machine crawled. Chrome barely scrolled WWW pages, often stopping for seconds at a time.

Even with the system using the GPU for rendering everything, the machine feels about 40% slower than my old MacBook pro. Even though it has a much faster GPU and SSD and processor.

My first experience with the computer was bringing it home and powering it up, only to spend several hours with blue screens while it installed updates. Nice! You'd think a person would want to actually play with their new toy right away...

I upgraded to Windows 10 Pro for some of the developer features that I require. That upgrade actually took just a few minutes.

During the updates, the computer rebooted maybe dozens of times. I lost count. It's Windows, how it works when updating.

Windows is still Windows, sadly. The awful NTFS filesystem, the clunky operating system, icky API, system registry, lettered drives, and so on. The machine probably feels so slow because it's running the windows built-in virus software all the time, leaving less resources for the rest of the apps.

The display is gorgeous. The GPU does play games really fast. Like 4K Diablo III with everything set at MAX with high frame rates.

But I still have to download, manually, software like winzip that is built in with the superior OSes. And I have to manually keep that software up to date when new versions come out. I rarely have to manually intervene on the Mac to keep software up to date. And when I do, I'm prompted by the software automatically. I don't have dozens of background programs running just to check for updates (on Windows: one background program to check for Adobe products, one to check for whatever, and so on).

MacOS comes with great productivity software: Numbers, Pages, etc. I'd have to pay for Micro$oft's versions (Excel, Word, etc.). Nickel and dime for every little thing. I've installed very little software and my 500G drive has less than 400G free.

A lot of what I do is command line oriented. On Mac and Ubuntu, I use zsh or bash, which are a delight to use from a user experience standpoint. Command.exe is extremely limited and uses backslashes which are ugly and clunky. PowerShell may be better, and has what looks like the ability to install plugins to enhance it. It's not at all as great an experience to use. An example of why I like bash better: I can "sudo whatever_command" and the command runs as administrator. If I want to do the same on Windows, I have to open a new Command.com (or PowerShell) by right clicking on the icon and choosing "run as administrator" from the context menu.

Windows 10 does have an experimental bash shell/Ubuntu environment. It's decent, but it's a hack. Every Linux syscall is glue that calls Windows syscalls. This extra layer, even a thin veneer, makes all the software running in the bash environment slower.

I will keep Windows 10 on the machine for the foreseeable future. I have enough Ubuntu and Mac that I don't need yet another system. At some point, I may dual boot.

For the price, this laptop is competitive with the old MacBook pro (15"). Better at games, better at running Ubuntu. More screen resolution.

It's not a religious thing for me, it's technical. I've seen better OSes with better user experience. If you want the best, go Mac. Windows is my last choice.

HUH?

 

[riverman]

HUH?

They didn't mean Hooters when they mentioned laptops....just a heads up

 

[THE HCP]

I actually did try to read this thread..... each post in fact. Absolutely another language to The HCP.

Thats pretty cool you guys build your own computers. As a MAC person i would have NO idea how to use any of them though.

I need some sort of RAID system for all of my media I was told. Might start a thread for advice on that in the future.

 

[riverman]

Might start a thread for advice on that in the future.

Just go to youtube....you can learn anything on youtube

 

[THE HCP]

Why go to youtube when I have my own built in Geek-Squad right here!!??

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I actually did try to read this thread..... each post in fact. Absolutely another language to The HCP.

Thats pretty cool you guys build your own computers. As a MAC person i would have NO idea how to use any of them though.

I need some sort of RAID system for all of my media I was told. Might start a thread for advice on that in the future.

I can come over and boot up your wife by ramming her with my hard drive.

 

[THE HCP]

I can come over and boot up your wife by ramming her with my hard drive.

DAMN!

 

[riverman]

Why go to youtube when I have my own built in Geek-Squad right here!!??

You're home?

 

[riverman]

Why go to youtube when I have my own built in Geek-Squad right here!!??

you can listen to a Trump speech on youtube or have Denny explain it to you here....choices

 

[Denny Crane]

I actually did try to read this thread..... each post in fact. Absolutely another language to The HCP.

Thats pretty cool you guys build your own computers. As a MAC person i would have NO idea how to use any of them though.

I need some sort of RAID system for all of my media I was told. Might start a thread for advice on that in the future.

I have a handful of computers I use for assorted things. None of them were Windows, and I actually have a need to run things on Windows for testing purposes.

This laptop has amazing technical specs at about 1/3 what I paid for my MacBook Pro.

In layman's terms, it had a problem that required me to take it back to have repaired. I was without the laptop for two weeks while they examined it and tried to repair it. They finally just gave me a new one.

I had to deal with Microsoft support to get software I bought for the old one transferred to the new one. That experience was just terrible.

In spite of the technical specs, the company that makes the machine has serious quality issues as many people report the same failure my laptop had.

Bottom line: you get what you pay for. What Andalusian said is spot on.

 

[andalusian]

If you want quality notebook for professionals - Apple, Microsoft, some Dells and maybe the top-level Thinkpads are probably what I would suggest.

FWIW - We have a lot of macs around here - the hardware is fantastic and they perform real well as long as you like their ui (I do not) - We have some people that actually run Windows VMs in Fusion on Macs. It mostly works fine - there are some things that you have to play games with - but overall, it works well.

For consumer grade laptops/notebooks - Asus has been very good for my wife's personal use. I am not certain if it will work for a professional - but something that does not break the bank and is reliable - it certainly works well.

 

[MarAzul]

I actually did try to read this thread..... each post in fact. Absolutely another language to The HCP.

Thats pretty cool you guys build your own computers. As a MAC person i would have NO idea how to use any of them though.

I need some sort of RAID system for all of my media I was told. Might start a thread for advice on that in the future.

I would be happy to help you customize a raid system. I did the first one about 35 years ago, although I did not call it raid. I don't use that technique any longer, but I can see why you might want to do so. Let me know if you would like some help.

 

[riverman]

My son builds high end computers....he says simply, laptops will never work on the same level....he does it as a hobby but he puts in lots of fans and they're the size of a large suitcase....my desktop outperforms my laptops...I have had zero problems with windows 10 on my desktop unit...

 

[andalusian]

My son builds high end computers....he says simply, laptops will never work on the same level....he does it as a hobby but he puts in lots of fans and they're the size of a large suitcase....my desktop outperforms my laptops...I have had zero problems with windows 10 on my desktop unit...

This is absolutely true. My main machine is a desktop too - but sometimes you need to go work somewhere else. It happens enough that some of us need/want a laptop as well. On the other hand, my wife, a casual user (with the exception of Excel) - is just fine getting along with a laptop.

 

[MarAzul]

My son builds high end computers....he says simply, laptops will never work on the same level....he does it as a hobby but he puts in lots of fans and they're the size of a large suitcase....my desktop outperforms my laptops...I have had zero problems with windows 10 on my desktop unit...

I hate lap tops. Your son is right. I prefer to have a desktop where ever I need it. Right now that is seven of them.

 

[MarAzul]

This is absolutely true. My main machine is a desktop too - but sometimes you need to go work somewhere else. It happens enough that some of us need/want a laptop as well. On the other hand, my wife, a casual user (with the exception of Excel) - is just fine getting along with a laptop.

Ha! Seems like I could have written your post.

 

[Denny Crane]

My main machine is a 5"x5"3" system. It has a core I7 7700, 32G of RAM, and a Samsung 960 NVME drive plus another Samsung 1TB SSD.

It's not for playing games. It's got plenty of RAM and CPU power and the fastest storage around. It's faster at doing most things than any of my Macs and also the new laptop. A lot of power in a tiny package (insert HCP joke here).

It runs Ubuntu. I sometimes use it directly, with a 40" UHD TV as the display and wireless keyboard/trackpad combo.

But much of the time I use the Macbook Pro or 27" 5K iMac.

I NFS mount the filesystem to the Macs so the IDE sees the files and works as it should. If it weren't fast enough, I would likely just ssh into the machine and use VI in a terminal window.

I went from Windows 7 to using Mac about 5 years ago. I wouldn't go back for anything.

Not only do I think the UI is the best there is, and by a LOT, the OS itself is lightweight and uses very little of the machines' resources, compared to Windows. If not MacOS, the next best for me is Linux running any of several desktop environments.

My impression of Windows 10 after having been a Windows 7 user for several years is that it's still Windows. C:\ is straight out of CP/M and still there. You still have to (danger, danger, danger) use regedit to do trivial things that every Mac app has in its settings with appropriate UI to view and set. \r\n line endings? That's just bullshit, and only messes things up.

I operate in the computers' command shell an awful lot. Speaking of awful, powershell and cmd.exe fit that. Sure, you might get used to it, but the console window itself is about the worst I've seen in any environment and using the shell is like scraping your nutsack with a rusty spoon (thanks braniac!).

At least Putty makes the machine useful.

 

[Denny Crane]

So I set it up to dual boot Windows and KUbuntu. It's been running Linux for me almost all the time. I just really do not like Windows. I hadn't used it in about 5 years, Windows 7 the last I had to use (for work). Windows 10 isn't any different. And it's not gotten noticeably better that I can see. The command line tools are still clumsy at best. The file system is still NTFS. The operating system still uses the dangerous regedit program to tweak things. The file system still natively used CR+LF line endings, which only conflicts with most everything else in the universe.

At 4K native resolution, Linux looks beautiful. Windows looks so tiny it's hard to use.

For about 1/3 the price, I must say this laptop running linux is competitive with my MacBook Pro. The apps I use are portable across operating systems (but expose NTFS C: D: CRLF bullshit on windows), so those work the same. Gestures and quality of native apps are still significantly better in MacOS. Linux supports the touch screen perfectly, but I never saw the benefit in having my hand blocking the screen or putting fingerprints on it. The thing does fold backward into a tablet, so in that mode the touch screen makes sense. Though I haven't yet used it in that mode, and don't see the point.

 

[dviss1]

Damn Denny. For an old fart you really know computers!

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I can come over and boot up your wife by ramming her with my hard drive.

Hahahahahah, you still use floppy disc.

 

[stampedehero]

Of minor mention:You probably did not get a CD player using media player. Windows media player outright sucks. Don't need tech language to describe that POS.