I keep being more convinced that Hagelin is expendable

[kreidertime]

Watching Fast on the third line, he showed some third line skills and a lot of speed also. Hagelin was a guy I expected to take a step forward. He's regressed a little. So has Zucc. If you told me that they would deal both for O'Reilly right now, I could live with that and worry about the cap next year.

If you take a bad contract on, you can dump a bad contract back like Glass. Something that is lost on a few posters here. I wonder if Columbus would retain 25% of Dubinsky's contract and take Hagelin and Glass for him. Then the money would be close. Dubinsky's done in Columbus. His stupid ways are getting him in trouble again. At the right price, I would take his inconsistent ass back at third line center and move Hayes to wing.

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't think CBJ wants to deal Dubi, especially not while retaining some of his cap hit. JD spoke highly of him last night.

I do think Hags could be the guy though. With Staal back, and I do think Zucc will be back as well, I think Hags could be the odd man out.

Here is the issue though. We already need another forward as is, that's painfully clear, if you deal Hags and get a forward back how does that solve our depth issue? The only way it does is if the guy we get back is VERY good. Then we could live with Fast, Hayes, and the guy we add on the 3rd line. So he would have to be a very clear step up from Hags to really improve the team, since our depth would not improve if we add the new guy by subtracting Hags. Going to be very interesting to see what Sather does to add a top 9 forward/depth upfront.

As for Glass, my biggest issue with him is actually how idiot AV loves him and continues to play him, not his contract. I hate the 3 year part of it, but at a 1.45 cap hit I don't go crazy. They could send him down and save 900 K right now. Then have 500 K of dead space, which isn't the end of the world. So I don't sweat the cap hit as much as I get angry at AV for continuing to play Glass for some odd reason.

 

[kreidertime]

I thought about Hagelin with J. Moore to the Yotes for Boedker and Vermette. Both Boedker and Vermette are UFA's at the end of the season. I don't see either signing with the crappy Yotes. So, to me the Yotes getting 2 players they have control of who are still fairly young is better than draft picks which may never amount to crap.

 

[chuckd3534]

Maybe I will be wrong, but I have to believe they would want more for those two guys. Maybe Hags/Moore is a start, but I bet we'd need to include picks and/or prospects to pull that one off dump.

 

[kreidertime]

The guy that is perfect for the Rangers to deal Hagelin for is Hanzal if he's available. He's 6'6. Tremendous defensively. He's a beast on draws. 57%. You can move Hayes to wing, put Miller with Hayes and Hanzal and you have a huge line size wise with 3, two way players. That would be perfect. If it took Hagelin, Allen and a second round pick I would still do it. He would be a guy I would trade a pick for. He's locked up to 2017 on a nice deal with a 3 million cap hit.

They aren't going to get more for those 2 guys when they are UFA's at the end of the season. They are just rentals.

 

[chuckd3534]

Hanzal has two more seasons after this one with a very good cap hit as you mentioned. I am with you and would make him a clear target, I just don't know if Zona would deal him considering he is locked up. And if they did I am sure they would want some good youth.

Vermette is the guy I am sure they will look to deal no matter what. I just don't think you could get him AND Boedker for Hags and Moore, two guys who are RFA's and not locked up long term either. I think you would need more. Maybe you could get just Vermette, but I doubt Sather would deal Hags straight up for Vermette.

 

[kreidertime]

Amazing how morons on HF over-value third line players. You would think Hanzal is a superstar with what they want for him. He's a third line center who is excellent defensively, great on draws and is a 40 point guy. You don't sell the farm for that.

 

[chuckd3534]

But you need to remember with Hanzal, he is signed for two more seasons with a very good cap hit. So Zona doesn't have to deal him like they do Vermette. So I do think it will take a decent amount, not a ton or selling the farm, but a decent amount to get him. They don't need to deal the guy at all, so why would they unless it was a great offer? And for a guy who is an RFA...not sure why they would do that.

 

[Ranger71]

If you threw in a 2nd and Lindberg you could probably get both from Ariz.

 

[kreidertime]

Hanzel would be a nice grab. The system is basically empty for center prospects. So, they really need to plug a guy in that third center spot who can stay there for 3-4 years. I would think the Rangers will draft heavy on centers next year and right handed defenseman.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Boedker and Vermette for Hags and Moore....not sure that will fit under the cap

 

[theProdigy223]

Why would AZ trade Boedker? Hes an RFA and exactly the kind of player they want to keep around. Same thing with Hanzal, there's no reason to trade guys like that. Vermette is another story.

Check out this soundbite:

• Craig Morgan of Fox Sports Arizona: Coyotes ownership insist they are not going to blow up their current roster. It is likely that they move UFAs Antoine Vermette, Martin Erat and Zbynek Michalek. They will also consider trading defenseman Keith Yandle. They should look at who they see will be with the team in three or four years, and be open to moving anyone who isn’t part of that group. If they haven’t already, they should talk to Shane Doan to see if he wants to go to a contender in hopes of winning the Cup. They should abide to his wishes as he’s earned that right.

So like we've been saying Vermette will be traded. But instead of also targeting Boedker who AZ has no incentive to trade, maybe we take a look at Shane Doan? He almost signed here a few offseasons ago, it was between the Rangers and AZ. But I dont see that happening unless they get the idea that St. Louis isnt taking a paycut to stay, as Doan has one more year with a 5.3 cap hit.

We need to go all in for Vermette, Hayes has hit the wall at C and is a disaster in the circle. He may be the third line center of the future, but he isnt the third line center this year for a cup team.

 

[theProdigy223]

And I know what you're thinking 71....we are NOT TRADING FOR YANDLE. His pricetag will be through the roof. The rumors are he may go to COL for O'Reilly.

 

[chuckd3534]

Vermette is a good fit. He is an 18-20 goal 45 or so point guy. A true 3rd liner. A 3rd line of Hags/Vermette/Hayes would be solid. And we'd add a 2nd guy to take faceoffs with Moore.

The question is what will Zona want. My guess is they will get something decent as a lot of teams will want Vermette as the DL gets closer. Wish we could strike now like Pitt did with Perron.

 

[Ranger71]

Always wanted Yandle, and you're right he's too expensive and a bit of a luxury at this point. I thought Boedker was a UFA so i guess that wouldn't happen then. If Doan still has something left that's a good idea but he makes alot too.

 

[chuckd3534]

Hanzal is signed for two more years with a 3.1 mill cap hit. They are not dealing him unless they get bowled over.
Boedker is a RFA. Unlikely they deal him unless they are bowled over.
At that cap hit, 5.3 mill, we cannot touch Doan unless Zona ate some of the cap hit, and I doubt they do that.

Vermette is the guy on that team.

 

[theProdigy223]

If Doan wants to come here, and that's the only way, AZ may honor that. The problem is I'm not sure we'll have enough assets to trade for both, as Vermette is going to be expensive enough in his own right. And he has to be the priority.

 

[chuckd3534]

Cole from Dallas. Stafford and Stewart from Buffalo. Tlusty from the Canes. And maybe Fleischmann from Florida.

These are some of the UFA's on bad teams. Sure some/most of these guys get dealt.

 

[chuckd3534]

If Doan wants to come here, and that's the only way, AZ may honor that. The problem is I'm not sure we'll have enough assets to trade for both, as Vermette is going to be expensive enough in his own right. And he has to be the priority.

What does that mean? They may honor it sure, but I don't see anyway they honor it AND keep 2 mill of his cap hit. That's the issue, not the will Zona trade him if he wants to be traded. No way we can afford his 5.3 mill cap hit. Zona has to keep 2 mill or so if we were to trade for Doan. I don't see it.

We should just focus on Vermette. Maybe a J. Moore picks/prospects package could get it done. Then we add a depth dman in another deal to be in the mix for # 6.

 

[theProdigy223]

It means that if he wants to come here and here only, much like MSL, they'd find a way to make it work if we gave them enough in return. And like I said in my post above, it wouldnt happen anyway unless they decide MSL wont be coming back. it's a long shot but it's not some impossible pipe dream. He almost signed here.

 

[kreidertime]

My bad. Forgot Boedker was a RFA. Must have been thinking about somebody else.

 

[chuckd3534]

We'll agree to disagree on this one Prod. I don't see anyway it works. MSL worked because Cally had a decent contract and was demanding too much, MSL still scores a lot of points (more than Doan), and we knew we'd have some room to move pieces around this past summer as we did. I just don't see anyway it works unless Zona holds onto cap hit for Doan, which I doubt.

On top of that I think MSL wants to be here still, so I don't see it working from that POV either.

Anything can happen of course, but I would be shocked if we added Doan. Vermette is the much more likely option as you said.

 

[theProdigy223]

Id be shocked as well and I'm 99% sure MSL is going to take a hefty cut to stay here, which is the ideal option. But if they get a read that that isn't happening, Doan is an interesting guy to look at. That's all.

 

[kreidertime]

Doan is too slow for this team. We already have 2 really old guys. Team needs a third line center for an affordable price for about 3 years. Then they need to hit on a center in the draft.

 

[chuckd3534]

I hear you.

Now go get Vermette....

 

[chuckd3534]

I would LOVE to see Sather make the Vermette offer/deal now if possible. Strike early and get it done.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Vermette also has playoff and SCF experience

 

[Ranger71]

If they can get Vermette and Petry in seperate deals thats a big step forward.

 

[kreidertime]

They won't be interested at all in Petry. AV likes 3 left handed and 3 right handed defenseman. Petry is right handed. There is no room for him on the roster.

 

[panzerporter]

I have been for trading Hags for a few years now. He's one dimensional and his performance has been on a downward trend. After a great rookie season where he averaged .6 PPG Hags followed the next strike shortened season with 24 points in 48 games. This could be attributed to the short season or sophomore slump except last year he dropped to .46 PPG and this year Hags has been a .37 PPG player, a considerable drop off from his rookie year. With the undersized MSL & Zuccarello already on the roster Hags is a small third wheel. If he can be used to pry Vermette away to improve faceoffs I'd make the deal.