I May Fight My (Home) Insurance Company

[ABM]

A home I own in Georgia suffered hail damage. The roof needs to be replaced. The home was built in 2000. I made an insurance claim a few weeks back. The independent adjuster called me to tell me he was scheduled to go look at the home/damage.

About a week later, a $3,200 check shows up in my mailbox......with no other documentation. I call the insurance company to get the skinny. They told me that my "prorated" amount came to $4,200. Minus the deductible, that leaves my net amount of $3,200.

I've never heard of such a thing. One of my renters out there owns a roofing company. In fact, I plan on giving him the job. He said he would be able to save me my deductible. Problem is, he estimated the cost of replacing the roof at around $7,500.

The insurance company will be hearing from me.

 

[tlongII]

Don't deposit the check.

 

[44Thrilla]

well, the roof is 10 years old. If your 10 year old car is damaged, would insurance get you enough to buy a brand new car, or would they pay you what your car was currently worth?

 

[ABM]

well, the roof is 10 years old. If your 10 year old car is damaged, would insurance get you enough to buy a brand new car, or would they pay you what your car was currently worth?

IIRC, it's a different calculation with home insurance. If the house burnt down, they'd rebuild it. That's why you insure with an amount that exceeds the cost to rebuild the home.

 

[44Thrilla]

IIRC, it's a different calculation with home insurance. If the house burnt down, they'd rebuild it. That's why you insure with an amount that exceeds the cost to rebuild the home.

yeah, I could be completely wrong. I'm not sure. I've only dealt with homeowners insurance once, and I got screwed on all my personal belongings that were damaged in a minor flood. Pennies on the dollar.

 

[MARIS61]

IIRC, it's a different calculation with home insurance. If the house burnt down, they'd rebuild it. That's why you insure with an amount that exceeds the cost to rebuild the home.

Only if you insure specifically for "replacement value".

Don't fret though, I'm sure you can find some illegal alien who'll do the job for $3200.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

It all depends on what the policy states. Have an insurance expert review it. Otherwise, how else will you really know?

 

[maxiep]

ABM, do you have a "like kind" replacement clause in your policy? If your roof needs to be replaced, they HAVE to do it and they have no choice. They're trying to buy you off. As has been said before, don't cash the check.

Call the insurance company and tell them that you don't accept the finding. Tell them you want a copy of the adjuster's report and want another adjuster to look at the roof. Have your roofer meet them there (and have your roofer inspect the roof before the new adjuster returns). Your roofer will be your advocate because the roofer will know more about roofing than the adjuster. Have your roofer write up an estimate (that will be on the high side to cover your deductable). Make sure it includes the following items:

--Type of roofing material (asphalt, wood shingle/shake, tile, slate). Make sure your new roof has a Class A fire rating. If you get a roof with a Class 4 impact rating, you'll receive a discount on your insurance (State Farm is 28% of the roof portion of my policies). Those asphalt shingles are referred to as "IR". It's a bit more expensive, but the insurance company will pay for it because it reduces their liability.
--Flashing (26 gauge aluminum is considered the standard. Make sure your chimney flashings are sealed, you may have valley flashings or you may have weaved valleys
--Underlayment. You should have at a minimum 30 lb. felt covering the entire roof. I would go further and get ice and water shield two feet above a hot wall and in every valley. Also, check out some of the manufactured underlayments (they look like housewrap).
--Decking. 3/8 OSB is generally minimum standard, but I think it sucks. If you have to get new decking, get at least 1/2" or 5/8" CDX plywood. Whatever it is, make sure there are at least some screws in it (roofing nails can pop) and that it's all the same material and thickness, otherwise it will telegraph through.
--Vent stacks and sleeves should be replaced and painted the color of your roof (GAF/Elk has a series of paints to match most roofs).
--Venting (soffit and ridge vents IMO are the best, but turtle vents are okay too).
--Gutters (if any portion of any of your gutters have a hail dent, those damaged runs have to be replaced by the insurance company). You can generally get any roofing company to give you "free" gutters for getting the job on your roof. Get the largest downspouts you can (generally 3"X 4").

You can always threaten to file a "proof of loss" claim. The second to last thing an insurance company wants is one of these things. It basically means you and your roofer puts together a claim on your roof and the insurance company has 30 days to respond to it. If they don't, the claim is awarded. You can also threaten to sue or to go to arbitration. This situation is the last thing they want. In court, insurance companies are liable for up to treble damages.

Finally when you do get your roof replaced, have your roofer take photos. If you plan to sell this house in the future, a new roof is a HUGE benefit.

Take some time to learn about roofing systems. There's a lot of information on the web. I like Malarkey (PDX based as well), but Certainteed is good (they fixed their degranulation problem), GAF/Elk is well regarded and Owens-Corning is fine. TAMKO is a little lower quality. If you use three or more products from the same company installed by one of the companies licensed installers (your guy may be one of them), you get an additional warranty from the roofing company. It's hard not to use at least three products from one of those companies (e.g., shingles, starter strip, ridge cap, etc.)

Good luck.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

With all due respect, ABM, I'd take one step at a time. With insurance companies, the best thing to do is try and work it out. This type of war strategy maxi suggests will also get you cancelled. And other carriers will charge you a lot more over the cancellation. Here are my suggestions:

1) Have your policy reviewed by an expert (like me). Before you do anything else, see what coverage you have and don't have.

2) It is possible you have no replacement cost due to an error. In that case, have a coverage review done and I can walk you thru obtaining the necessary coverage gain. You may have to pay some back premium, but it's usually worth it.

3) Politely request a full copy of the adjuster's estimate and assessment of the depreciation... They must send it to you. In fact, it's a violation of the GA Fair Claims Practices to not do so. I am certain it was an oversite.

4) Once you have all this information and your proper coverage, schedule the work to be done by someone you trust. Once the work is done, the carrier will release the depreciated amount- if it can be gotten.

Above all else, keep it polite and respectful. When dealing with insurance carriers, it's the respectful people who get the superior service.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

NEXT TIME GET AN UMBRELLA POLICY.

 

[maxiep]

With all due respect, ABM, I'd take one step at a time. With insurance companies, the best thing to do is try and work it out. This type of war strategy maxi suggests will also get you cancelled. And other carriers will charge you a lot more over the cancellation. Here are my suggestions:

1) Have your policy reviewed by an expert (like me). Before you do anything else, see what coverage you have and don't have.

2) It is possible you have no replacement cost due to an error. In that case, have a coverage review done and I can walk you thru obtaining the necessary coverage gain. You may have to pay some back premium, but it's usually worth it.

3) Politely request a full copy of the adjuster's estimate and assessment of the depreciation... They must send it to you. In fact, it's a violation of the GA Fair Claims Practices to not do so. I am certain it was an oversite.

4) Once you have all this information and your proper coverage, schedule the work to be done by someone you trust. Once the work is done, the carrier will release the depreciated amount- if it can be gotten.

Above all else, keep it polite and respectful. When dealing with insurance carriers, it's the respectful people who get the superior service.

BP, as you well know, it's illegal to cancel someone for making a claim due to force majure. They can elect not to renew the policy, but they can't cancel you. And as long as you don't have a long history of making claims, your risk is analyzed based on your likelihood of making another claim. Besides, the amount of the claim is so tiny as to not be worth their time. They'll just cut him a check.

Also, I never said not to be "polite or respectful". I also didn't advocate a "going to war" strategy. I'm aware you work for an insurance company, but I've made enough claims with my and my company's properties to know that insurance companies rely on people to be cowed and ignorant. If you tell them you know your rights and understand your policy, you're less likely to be taken advantage of.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

too bad you didn't flood your house.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2010/08/26/FEMA-flood-insurance-seeks-bailout/UPI-39181282845599/

The program is flawed by a lack of political willpower to force homeowners repeatedly making claims to move or to elevate their homes, the newspaper said.

As a result, thousands of homeowners have received benefits that were many times over the value of their home. Owners of a home in Mississippi worth $69,900 have been awarded $663,000 in benefits since 1978 on 34 separate flood claims, the newspaper said.

The program also "artificially inflates the value" of older homes -- on average by $24,000 -- by providing discounts to owners of homes built before 1975, a FEMA report from 2006 says.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

BP, as you well know, it's illegal to cancel someone for making a claim due to force majure. They can elect not to renew the policy, but they can't cancel you. And as long as you don't have a long history of making claims, your risk is analyzed based on your likelihood of making another claim. Besides, the amount of the claim is so tiny as to not be worth their time. They'll just cut him a check.

Also, I never said not to be "polite or respectful". I also didn't advocate a "going to war" strategy. I'm aware you work for an insurance company, but I've made enough claims with my and my company's properties to know that insurance companies rely on people to be cowed and ignorant. If you tell them you know your rights and understand your policy, you're less likely to be taken advantage of.

I stand corrected. Yes he can be "non renewed".

With all due respect, after handing 14,000 claims for 4 different carriers, I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about. As in almost all walks of life, respect gets respect. It's the same with claims and insurance companies.

 

[maxiep]

I stand corrected. Yes he can be "non renewed".

With all due respect, after handing 14,000 claims for 4 different carriers, I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about. As in almost all walks of life, respect gets respect. It's the same with claims and insurance companies.

Again, please tell me where I said ABM shouldn't treat people with respect? I simply assumed that's the way he would naturally handle it.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I think he should send them a long letter with threats and misspellings!

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Again, please tell me where I said ABM shouldn't treat people with respect? I simply assumed that's the way he would naturally handle it.

It was the combatant attitude you recommend. Trust me, it's easier to catch flies with honey than a baseball bat.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think he should send them a long letter with threats and misspellings!

But then he'd have to claim being from Arkansas.

 

[maxiep]

It was the combatant attitude you recommend. Trust me, it's easier to catch flies with honey than a baseball bat.

What the fuck? Stop projecting. Re-read my post and reconsider your ridiculous characterizations of my position. If you don't think a roofing contractor belongs at the site when the adjuster comes, then I don't know what to say to you. It's common practice that protects the homeowner and educates the adjuster. We all know how freelance adjusters are paid.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

What the fuck? We all know how freelance adjusters are paid.

Evidently, you don't. I pay them on a weekly basis. I manage them. I know. Trust me, I mean you no offense as I think you're one of the top 3 posters here, but you're clueless here.

 

[maxiep]

Evidently, you don't. I pay them on a weekly basis. I manage them. I know. Trust me, I mean you no offense as I think you're one of the top 3 posters here, but you're clueless here.

Way to splice my post.

1. I NEVER said to not treat his insurance company with respect. That's your ridiculous conclusion.

2. Do you really think someone should just trust their insurance company to do the right thing? That's your prerogative; as for me, I'm going to know my policy and hold my insurance company to both the letter and the spirit of it. I'm going to receive expert advice and be well armed as to what I'm entitled and my paths to obtain it.

I love my insurance company (State Farm) tries to shortchange me; it keeps my premiums low. Insurance companies should be skeptical. However, I pay 100% of my premiums. If I have my roof destroyed from a hail storm--which is covered in my policy--I'm not going to settle for 60% of what I'm entitled. If they allow me to pay 60% of my premiums, then I'd accept getting 60% of my roof.

3. I can only speak for State Farm and Chubb (the two insurers with whom I work). As for how their freelance adjusters are paid, they're paid by the claims they settle. State Farm offers a bonus for the difference between projected loss and the amount accepted. Therefore there's an incentive for them to low ball. I'll be interested in how Standard handles them.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

a while back we (work) hired a lawyer here to fight for coverage (state farm and farmers) that was owed on several policies...the way the lawyer was charging, it was better if we didn't do a damned thing, they always wanted retainers, then wouldn't move after they exhausted it. we probably broke even between paying the lawyer and from what he recovered through stupid correspondences between the carrier and the lawyer.

 

[maxiep]

a while back we (work) hired a lawyer here to fight for coverage (state farm and farmers) that was owed on several policies...the way the lawyer was charging, it was better if we didn't do a damned thing, they always wanted retainers, then wouldn't move after they exhausted it. we probably broke even between paying the lawyer and from what he recovered through stupid correspondences between the carrier and the lawyer.

That sounds like a crap lawyer. My college roommate was an attorney for Travelers for a decade and has gone into private practice as a partner for an insurance law firm in Hartford, CT. He's saved me thousands personally and my company hundreds of thousands.

 

[DP]

Go for vital organs! The jugular might be a good choice to attack... oh wait, not that kind of fighting..

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

That sounds like a crap lawyer. My college roommate was an attorney for Travelers for a decade and has gone into private practice as a partner for an insurance law firm in Hartford, CT. He's saved me thousands personally and my company hundreds of thousands.

he was actually on the ball, smart and aggressive but he was kind of chasing wild geese and charging $500+ an hour to do so. boss voluntarily chose to hire him to try to maximize money from the insurance companies. on certain matters he really helped though.

in the end he probably did some good, but it was hard to measure. everything is so cloudy with these things.

being a cushy lawyer must be nice, looking at some of his invoices, he charges for emails and phone calls...wish I could do that (well, I kind of do but don't charge nearly as much).

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Don't deposit the check.

Does the check have an expiration? Usually 45 or 90 days right? If you don't deposit the check it goes to unclaimed property in the state where you were the claim was. We did that once, the checks just went to unclaimed property. Ultimately we hired someone to resubmit everything and our payment went from around $20k to $145k (long story).

If I were you I would just resubmit the claim stating that the replacement cost is much higher than what they gave you. You have to do everything by the book, these people are fucking computers.

 

[maxiep]

Actually, depositing the check isn't necessarily a sign of acceptance, it just muddies (sp?) the water a bit.

 

[MARIS61]

Often the check states right on it's face that cashing it is considered payment in full releasing company from further liability.

State Farm once tried to convince my injured and 8 month pregnant wife she had only 3 days to cash their $500 check or lose all right to a claim after she was injured in a car crash caused by their insured. We went to our attorney.

Medical bills alone for our son's premature birth and injuries totaled close to $100,000. The driver had only the minimum required coverage of $30,000, so that's what the insurance ended up paying.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Often the check states right on it's face that cashing it is considered payment in full releasing company from further liability.

State Farm once tried to convince my injured and 8 month pregnant wife she had only 3 days to cash their $500 check or lose all right to a claim after she was injured in a car crash caused by their insured. We went to our attorney.

Medical bills alone for our son's premature birth and injuries totaled close to $100,000. The driver had only the minimum required coverage of $30,000, so that's what the insurance ended up paying.

Did you use your UUI insurance?

 

[MARIS61]

Did you use your UUI insurance?

My wife was a passenger in her mother's car, which was rear-ended. This was 29 years ago and few people had adequate coverage. We could have pursued the driver personally for the other $90,000 (including attorney fees) but garnishing a 25 year old girl's minimum wage job for a couple decades seemed not the way to go. In the end our attorney and Doernbecher Childrens Hospital voluntarily waived 2/3 of their fees and we ate the rest.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

My wife was a passenger in her mother's car, which was rear-ended. This was 29 years ago and few people had adequate coverage. We could have pursued the driver personally for the other $90,000 (including attorney fees) but garnishing a 25 year old girl's minimum wage job for a couple decades seemed not the way to go. In the end our attorney and Doernbecher Childrens Hospital voluntarily waived 2/3 of their fees and we ate the rest.

I've always felt auto insurance should have higher minimums.