I see a ship on the horizon! err it maybe a windmill.

[MarAzul]

Copy of a note to some professors.
Any thoughts


"For your info since you are now interested in political science.
I ordered this book so I can reread the the thoughts of the man (Admiral Alfred Mahan) that made the connection between the political and Sea Power.
I plan to make a proposal as Naval Architect/Historian/Fire Controlman to up grade the fleet of the United States Navy to support a modern Political strategy and support many operations and hopefully prevent future Benghazi's. I view the current Zumwalt class of ship to represent a ridiculous evolution that needs to be redirected.

After the Benghazi debacle, the then Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta, said the US military was not the 911 responder nor should it be.

What a load of shit! Of course it should be! Historically the Frigates of the old Navy and Destroyers the last century performed that role for the Political boss fairly well.

The problem is, we don't have ships like that any longer, and their replacement appears to be an answer looking for a solution to a question some cold warrior may have asked.

I think I will name the first of the new class of frigates, the Garryowen. For affect!

It will have guns that shoot within line of site, perhaps 25000 yards, not 70 miles. The ammo will be cheap enough to practice with, not a million dollars a pop. And it will be able to fire a non parallax correct broadside of low air burst frag ammo to cover a rescue shore party as they retreat back to the ship with there objective in hand.
The speed will be modest, perhaps .92 of the S/L ratio, with length being selected for the speed required, fuel efficiency and the desired parallax spread of four gun salvo. Capable of cruising independently but more likely in mutual supporting pairs, with 10,000 mile range.

Any thoughts? "

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Admiral Azul!

 

[MarAzul]

Admiral Azul!

Too old, past the mandatory retirement. Just call me the Architect and donations required.

 

[MarAzul]

minor comments received. copy of response.

"The Garryowen is the name I am applying to the class of new Frigates I am proposing. Garryowen is the name of a place in Ireland, and the name of a two step Irish tune
that became the marching, theme music of the 7th Calvary and later the 1st Cav. The Garryowen is the music you always hear in the movies when the Calvary comes to the rescue.

The Ticonderoga Class are all decommissioned now. They were a class of cruisers, larger ships than what I want for utility duty.

There is nothing in the Book by Alfred Mahan about this class of ship. I am just looking for the concepts he wrote about in regard to Naval Sea Power supporting political
positioning. It seems people have lost sight of the need to support the people we send abroad. If we leave them apparently unsupported then they will indeed be abused to further someone elses politcal agenda. Nothing stirs up the locals like the sight of a US Amassidor and his Marine guard on their knees.

I don't want these ships to be stealthy strategic weapons systems, I want a bad ass looking ship that looks as if it can actually reach out and bite your ass if you give it reason.
A ship that demands respect and can actually back it up, on call (911) by the commander in Chief. Ships that can be just over the horizon, but within range of an Embassy or Consulate to support them when needed.

The US President should never be in the position of blaming some friggin video for the death of any diplomatic staff and then say there was nothing they could do, no assets available."

The book arrived today, so the search for nuggets of wisdom can begin.

 

[MarAzul]

Dang I forgot how heavy going this book is. Not as easy to find the appropriate point as in the Art of War. But I did find a thing, some what of a warning. In the pursuit of technological advancement , it is not difficult to lose sight of the benefits of and the reasons for the Naval power. I pushed right on pass this, then had to stop and think about it.

We now have the smallest Navy as in number of warships since before WWII. But on the other hand, we have a Navy second to none in shear combat power and it isn't even close with 12 Nimitz Class Carrier groups and a ballistic missile force in submarines. Awesome when you think of it. But then, we oddly had no assets available to send to the rescue in the Mediterranean Sea at Benghazi.
I don't thinks this was actually the exact truth, but none the less, the Secretary of Defense did make this claim. So whether it is true or not is not the question, the question is why? Why would the Commander in Chief ever be given this no option unacceptable answer.

Perhaps we now have a Navy designed to wage war at fantastic combat speed with one or more enemy fleets that do not exist. While at the same time, we have a fleet that can not fill the needs traditionally filled by the a Navy in the past, with ships designed for utility, handy and ready with more conventional weaponry.

We have a fleet today, with about 90 so called Destroyers, no Frigates or other utility warships. These Destroyers, the Arliegh Burke Class appear to me to be primarily intended as Carrier task force guards and or stand off offensive launch platforms for Tomahawk missiles, not really utility. They are really incapable of filling the role that was once the work of the Destroyer force.
One of my favorite Destroyer roles is Direct fire support, rifle shot line sight support. This was accomplish after much carnage at Omaha beach by a couple of Destroyers when the support fire of the Battleships and Cruisers, standing off in deep water, were completely ineffective. The landing lost almost 10,000 men on the beach before a couple destroyers moving in with there 5 inch guns, under
control of Mk37 Fire Control System providing line of sight direct rifle shot fire on the enemy position. They opened up a pathway to get the guys still alive off the damn beach. Too damn bad the General planing this operation did not know the capability he did not assign to the job in the first place. But that is bitch that belongs in history.

Today, we would not make the same mistake, we do not have a ship that could fill the role. No modest draft Destroyers that could operate in shoal waters of the Normandy Beaches. The Zumwalt class draws 31 feet and the Burkes draw 27. They would have to be out there with the cruisers in the deep water, not withing direct fire range. The Destroyers that did support Normandy had drafts of about 14 feet. The later Fletcher class, drew around 15 feet and the heavily armed Gearing Class with 6 five in 38 riffles, drew about 17 feet.

The 5" 38 rifles had a surface range of 18000 yards. The next upgrade, the 5" 54 about 23000 yards, and the currently use Mk 45 mod 4 5' 62 fire a 70 pound projectile nearly 40000 yards, or 20 knot. But with a draft too deep to come in close. What is the point? Then the deeper draft Zumwalt, firing what ever the heck it is 70 miles, is just a dang gee wiz to me.
You have completely lost mission of Direct line of sight close fire support. Direct fire support deployed at Benghazi from the Gulf of Sidra, very well could have made the difference.

No Commander in Chief should ever be in the position to blame the failure to support the people he sends in harms way on some amateur video or what ever while claiming no assets were available to provide help.

 

[Haakzilla]

...is this what LSD is like?

 

[MarAzul]

...is this what LSD is like?

 

[MarAzul]

Well enough thinking about this, I know I am probably correct, we do not have the appropriate assets available, although we did have adequate assest available to probably save the lads at Benghazi. We just failed to deploy what we had. I suspect the power in charge found it easier to ignore the problem and find an scape goat, and beg understanding from a forgiving people
instead of stepping up to responsibility in a ruckus difficult to explain.

So I sent this first of perhaps several messages off, seeking help.


To a well known news commentator,

The Commander in Chief should never be told, No assets available. When the CNC needs a responder, it damn well should be the Defense department, in spite of Leon Panetta's opinion to the contrary. Probably the United States Navy should have the assets and the ready drill.

Hello X,

I seek your help in a place to vent some ideas I have about the Navy and the current fleets capabilities.
I am and old dude, Navy vet, retired IBM, Naval Architect, and Historian, especially Military.

A link to my latest work
https://sites.google.com/site/marazulles/

I wish to discuss the need for a new class of ship to meet utility needs, but can also supplement the battle fleet.
A new class of Frigate to be ready for Benghazi and other historical needs. Too long and detailed to expand here but I don't think we have the assets.

Regards,
MarAzul

 

[barfo]

Well enough thinking about this, I know I am probably correct

Every post should begin with this statement.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

Every post should begin with this statement.

barfo

I knew you would get it.

 

[riverman]

Great thread...I can't believe the new Zumwalt series rounds are over a million a pop....

 

[riverman]

Well enough thinking about this, I know I am probably correct, we do not have the appropriate assets available, although we did have adequate assest available to probably save the lads at Benghazi. We just failed to deploy what we had. I suspect the power in charge found it easier to ignore the problem and find an scape goat, and beg understanding from a forgiving people
instead of stepping up to responsibility in a ruckus difficult to explain.

So I sent this first of perhaps several messages off, seeking help.


To a well known news commentator,

The Commander in Chief should never be told, No assets available. When the CNC needs a responder, it damn well should be the Defense department, in spite of Leon Panetta's opinion to the contrary. Probably the United States Navy should have the assets and the ready drill.

Hello X,

I seek your help in a place to vent some ideas I have about the Navy and the current fleets capabilities.
I am and old dude, Navy vet, retired IBM, Naval Architect, and Historian, especially Military.

A link to my latest work
https://sites.google.com/site/marazulles/

I wish to discuss the need for a new class of ship to meet utility needs, but can also supplement the battle fleet.
A new class of Frigate to be ready for Benghazi and other historical needs. Too long and detailed to expand here but I don't think we have the assets.

Regards,
MarAzul

Please get them a contract in Coos Bay and jumpstart the economy in Oregon...it's the best deep port north of San Franciso on the west coast from what I hear and a pretty strategic location for a Naval Base

 

[MarAzul]

Great thread...I can't believe the new Zumwalt series rounds are over a million a pop....

Yeah, it brings to me, an appropriate saying. But I can't say it until tomorrow.

 

[MarAzul]

Please get them a contract in Coos Bay and jumpstart the economy in Oregon...it's the best deep port north of San Franciso on the west coast from what I hear and a pretty strategic location for a Naval Base

Coos Bay would be ideal and ready made. The wharfs are empty, and the channel is deep enough for the appropriate Frigate but not the Zumwalt. The houses are for rent to the crews at 1/3 the price of San Diego or Norfolk. Might as well make um here too.

 

[riverman]

Coos Bay would be ideal and ready made. The wharfs are empty, and the channel is deep enough for the appropriate Frigate but not the Zumwalt. The houses are for rent to the crews at 1/3 the price of San Diego or Norfolk. Might as well make um here too.

It always made sense to me to use that port and bring some sailor money into the area...could be a beautiful thriving place with a healthy economy.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Please get them a contract in Coos Bay and jumpstart the economy in Oregon...it's the best deep port north of San Franciso on the west coast from what I hear and a pretty strategic location for a Naval Base

I don't know about now but Coos Bay used to be a smugglers paradise. Some of the shit that got illegally shipped in and out of there was insane.

 

[riverman]

I don't know about now but Coos Bay used to be a smugglers paradise. Some of the shit that got illegally shipped in and out of there was insane.

The Navy has wanted a deep water port north of the Bay Area forever....Oregon would never vote it in...one thing I think the liberals screwed up ...would have benefited the entire coast and every town along 101....sailors spend all their money all the time....most of them have no bills. No rent, no laundry, no groceries....just port to port, paycheck to paycheck...not talking about married guys with kids, but in my day, there weren't a lot of those guys