I still think VC should come off the bench

[rory]

This isn't ripping on him, or saying he should play less minutes, just a tactical decision based on what I've seen this season:

1. Antoine Wright plays much better in the starting line-up with Kidd/Jefferson, and I think he'd be even more productive with this new frontcourt.

2. VC plays just as well (IMO, somewhat better) when Darrell Armstrong runs the point (as seen in the start of 2nd quarters). I believe the trend could continue with Marcus (and might help Marcus' development, helping cover his mistakes as he works off the rust).

3. This has been employed by smart coaches like Popovich (Manu) and Avery Johnson (Terry). It gives the Nets an edge by putting an elite scorer against the other team's backups.

4. Bottom line: Nets are 4-0 when VC comes off the bench (3 out west + philly) - I say use the strategy as long as it works.

Thoughts?

 

[pegs]

It could work out, and when worse comes to worse, I'd like to see this happen. Maybe as an experiment.

 

[ToddMacCulloch11]

If how things are keeps not working, and since it has worked in the past, then give it a shot and see.

 

[GMJ]

Yeah but who do we go to for offense with Carter out, Jefferson? Didn't we already see that Jefferson can't score without having another threat on the court to draw attention away from him.

 

[Kidd Karma]

We fell into this experiement on the west coast swing. It worked. VC off the bench gives the 2nd unit an offensive threat. Wright gives Kidd a Kittles type player to work with. Get Kidd down to about 30 minutes a game. Those 18 minutes with Kidd out, Vince takes those minutes some overlap and gets him to about 32 minutes. I like how Phil Jackson always had either MJ or Pippen on the floor at all times, unless there was a blowout. He was the master at getting them rest, while keeping one of them on the floor at all times. I guess with Frank he makes the subbing more of a chore. Lets keep one of the big 3 on the floor at all times. I mean you team VC with Magloire's half court offense and ability to set picks.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 19 2007, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah but who do we go to for offense with Carter out, Jefferson? Didn't we already see that Jefferson can't score without having another threat on the court to draw attention away from him.</div>
Our defense works better without VC, which means more chances for fastbreak and easy buckets.

In our half court offense, however, with Sean, Boone, RJ, Wright, we have plenty of finishers for Kidd to pass to. All we'd have to do is set up an offense where people run around alot, and Kidd, RJ, and Boone all pass to those finishers. It could work, it just depends on whether or not Frank could get the players to do what they need to do, and whether or not the players can execute.

 

[Black Republican]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 19 2007, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah but who do we go to for offense with Carter out, Jefferson? Didn't we already see that Jefferson can't score without having another threat on the court to draw attention away from him.</div>
He's nothing,but a sidekick.

 

[Lavalamp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Dec 19 2007, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 19 2007, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah but who do we go to for offense with Carter out, Jefferson? Didn't we already see that Jefferson can't score without having another threat on the court to draw attention away from him.</div>
He's nothing,but a sidekick.
</div>
I dunno, sometimes he looks useless creating on his own, other times he gets it done.

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Dec 19 2007, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Dec 19 2007, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 19 2007, 03:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah but who do we go to for offense with Carter out, Jefferson? Didn't we already see that Jefferson can't score without having another threat on the court to draw attention away from him.</div>
He's nothing,but a sidekick.
</div>
I dunno, sometimes he looks useless creating on his own, other times he gets it done.
</div>
Inconsistency. That's the story of our whole team.

 

[Universe]

No harm in trying. Least we can run a bit with Antione and Jefferson.

 

[ghoti]

He's sure not getting paid like a guy who should come off the goddamn bench.

Hows about he moves his ass, runs up and down the court and creates fast break opportunities on defense? (Oh, wait. He'll never do that. He's not that type of player. That doesn't fit the Nets at all. Good thing we have a GM that realizes that and didn't bid against himself to give this guy a huge contract.)

 

[Jizzy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Dec 20 2007, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's sure not getting paid like a guy who should come off the goddamn bench.

Hows about he moves his ass, runs up and down the court and creates fast break opportunities on defense? (Oh, wait. He'll never do that. He's not that type of player. That doesn't fit the Nets at all. Good thing we have a GM that realizes that and didn't bid against himself to give this guy a huge contract.)</div>
aren't you like the biggest Thorn groupie?

 

[Kidd Karma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Dec 20 2007, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's sure not getting paid like a guy who should come off the goddamn bench.

Hows about he moves his ass, runs up and down the court and creates fast break opportunities on defense? (Oh, wait. He'll never do that. He's not that type of player. That doesn't fit the Nets at all. Good thing we have a GM that realizes that and didn't bid against himself to give this guy a huge contract.)</div>

It was a steal to get him for that one year, but Thorn doesn't seem to be able to add 1+1 on this one. Or was it Ratner thinking this was his meal ticket.

 

[furnace]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kidd Karma @ Dec 19 2007, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We fell into this experiement on the west coast swing. It worked. VC off the bench gives the 2nd unit an offensive threat. Wright gives Kidd a Kittles type player to work with. Get Kidd down to about 30 minutes a game. Those 18 minutes with Kidd out, Vince takes those minutes some overlap and gets him to about 32 minutes. I like how Phil Jackson always had either MJ or Pippen on the floor at all times, unless there was a blowout. He was the master at getting them rest, while keeping one of them on the floor at all times. I guess with Frank he makes the subbing more of a chore. Lets keep one of the big 3 on the floor at all times. I mean you team VC with Magloire's half court offense and ability to set picks.</div>

Umm....WHAT?!?!?

Magoire's half court offense?

Ability to set picks?

WHAT?!?!

More like...Magloire's ability to fumble the ball, take bad shots, and commit quick fouls.

 

[purplehaze89]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Dec 20 2007, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's sure not getting paid like a guy who should come off the goddamn bench.

Hows about he moves his ass, runs up and down the court and creates fast break opportunities on defense? (Oh, wait. He'll never do that. He's not that type of player. That doesn't fit the Nets at all. Good thing we have a GM that realizes that and didn't bid against himself to give this guy a huge contract.)</div>

I agree with what you said, but this isn't 2002. Nets basketball isn't only about fast breaking at every opportunity anymore. L-Frank has installed a system that is practically 50 or 60 percent half-court. You make do with what you have, although I would trade Carter or Kidd or RJ for an upgraded package in a heartbeat. The Big 3 isn't working and any idiot with half a brain can figure that out.

 

[Kidd Karma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purplehaze89 @ Dec 20 2007, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Dec 20 2007, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He's sure not getting paid like a guy who should come off the goddamn bench.

Hows about he moves his ass, runs up and down the court and creates fast break opportunities on defense? (Oh, wait. He'll never do that. He's not that type of player. That doesn't fit the Nets at all. Good thing we have a GM that realizes that and didn't bid against himself to give this guy a huge contract.)</div>

I agree with what you said, but this isn't 2002. Nets basketball isn't only about fast breaking at every opportunity anymore. L-Frank has installed a system that is practically 50 or 60 percent half-court. You make do with what you have, although I would trade Carter or Kidd or RJ for an upgraded package in a heartbeat. The Big 3 isn't working and any idiot with half a brain can figure that out.
</div>

Yep, I remember someone talking to Frank at one of these gatherings for the Nets and asked him about the offense and VC. First with a generic answer. Than when pushed, Frank revealed that it is basically too hard to teach an old dog new tricks. VC is stuck in his ways. F the money....that's what Thorn said when he gave VC this contract, F the money and make VC come off the bench. He sure as hell ain't playing like he's earning his money now.

 

[pegs]

Vince sucks at defense. That alone should make him deserving of coming off the bench with Malik Allen.

 

[GMJ]

Vince has been on a tear as of late. Sure its easy to grumble about running the break and locking down people on defense, but lets not overlook the fact that he's been getting it done, and has been a big reason why we've won the games we have.

I'd post the chart in here if this editor wouldn't get down syndrome every time I tried to insert a chart, so you'll have to follow the link