I want it to be noted that I was against trading Ant Simmons....

[blazerkor]

Since the goal after Dame went out was to tank, not sure that can be counted against him.

In the last 4 seasons, we are 137-173 in the last 4 seasons with a grand total of 3 Playoff game wins and 0 Playoff series wins. Not sure that is the best direction to try to build around to be honest.

As you pointed out, in two of those seasons we were tanking. As you know the two seasons before that we were playing Dame and CJ major minutes together and they sucked together just as much as Dame and Ant do. I guess if you want to you could say that Dame is the common factor but I think it's probably putting Dame in the back court with another small guard who has shown he is better on offense without Dame and who is shitty on defense when combined with Dame.

 

[cheesehoff]

I think the thing that sets Dame up to be the exception to the rule is that his game isn't built completely around his athleticism. The same reason for Curry's success as he gets a little older. The same reason that a long successful career for guys like Wall, Rose, Fults are harder to predict. Dame, along with Curry, have traits that age pretty well because shooting and being the team leader can improve with age.

 

[TBpup]

As you pointed out, in two of those seasons we were tanking. As you know the two seasons before that we were playing Dame and CJ major minutes together and they sucked together just as much as Dame and Ant do. I guess if you want to you could say that Dame is the common factor but I think it's probably putting Dame in the back court with another small guard who has shown he is better on offense without Dame and who is shitty on defense when combined with Dame.

Agreed. It's not Dame's fault other than he is a common denominator. Olshey was who put smurf like, no-D teams together. That said, Dame's style of play (small, ball dominant guard that doesn't play much D) does not typically lend itself to being a contending team. Dame is great at what he does....but it doesn't lead to great team results.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Dumbasses gonna dumbass.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, being compared to Reddit is not necessarily something to yearn for.

Reddit is way better for staying up on breaking news because stuff just gets dumped into mega threads here.

 

[e_blazer]

Since the list of point guards who are similar to Dame begins and ends with Steph Curry, I’m not particularly impressed with the discussion about how few win titles. And, if the Blazers trade Dame and keep Ant as the PG of the future, I can state with no hesitation that most of those calling for him to be kept will be on the “Trade Ant” bandwagon within a year because ANT IS NOT A POINT GUARD.

 

[blazerkor]

Agreed. It's not Dame's fault other than he is a common denominator. Olshey was who put smurf like, no-D teams together. That said, Dame's style of play (small, ball dominant guard that doesn't play much D) does not typically lend itself to being a contending team. Dame is great at what he does....but it doesn't lead to great team results.

I would love to see how much his usage rate would go down if he was given the opportunity to play with a scorer like Zion... or even KAT. Dame just hasn't had guys that he could get the ball to in the flow of an offense that he was initiating that he could trust to be as effective of a scorer as he is. The two best scorers Dame has played with since LaMarcus have been guys who have far too close of skill sets to Dame so when he'd get them the ball they would dominate it with less time on the clock... essentially reducing our offense to guys taking turns playing the exact same way but both of those guys (CJ and Ant) are far less effective, doing the same thing Dame does but just doing it worse and being less willing passers.

I think it's weird that you identify just how horribly the rosters around Dame have been constructed since 2015 and even then the bench was absolute shit but at the same time condemn Dame for his ball dominant usage. Dame dominating the ball has been prudent, I don't think he has to. He doesn't do that on all star teams... there are plenty of plays where he operates without the ball. The question becomes who has he played with that he could feel comfortable getting the ball to who would get it back to him if he got himself open, the answer is unfortunately no one or maybe Evan Turner and I guess Batum would find Dame too.

 

[BassPlaya]

Clearly you haven't lived.

That is possibly the most incorrect statement I have ever read online.

Though green font may have been inferred.

 

[riverman]

Since the goal after Dame went out was to tank, not sure that can be counted against him.

In the last 4 seasons, we are 137-173 in the last 4 seasons with a grand total of 3 Playoff game wins and 0 Playoff series wins. Not sure that is the best direction to try to build around to be honest.

I'd say that's true of Chauncey but Ant was trying to win as hard as possible...it got him a bag of money in the process. Ant is a 5 year veteran now...he is who he's going to be in my view.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Simons scoring at all 3 levels has picked up … and looking good doing it. Dame moves from 3. Shooting deeper.
Other 3pt shooters — CJ, Harden, most all, really — shoot right at the 3 point line. Amazing when Dame can just calmly, with space and time get one up from the line. Dame is that frickin’ rare, especially off screens.

With Sharpe at the 2 … and by the end of next year he’s probably (?) the starter … and Grant at the 4 (really solid minus rebounds) … means the Blazers NEED a quality, starting SF. [Yes, a better bench and a lighter, healthy Nurkic! or better]

Dame is an anomaly. He needs that right dude at 3. IMHO, there is a path this year. It is rare. Make the shot, Cronin! Too bad that Ant and 3 are the cost.

 

[blazerkor]

I'd say that's true of Chauncey but Ant was trying to win as hard as possible...it got him a bag of money in the process. Ant is a 5 year veteran now...he is who he's going to be in my view.

I think we see what his skill set is now and will be in the future but playing with Dame hampers him on both ends of the court, playing with the level of players he's played with when Dame has been out just limits what we can know about what he would do if he were playing with players who are better and whose skill sets are cohesive with his.

 

[e_blazer]

I’ll just say that if Ant had demonstrated the ball handling, court vision and passing skills of a true PG to go along with his shooting skills, his trade value would be off the charts. As is, I think he’s primarily viewed as a combo guard.

 

[blazerkor]

I’ll just say that if Ant had demonstrated the ball handling, court vision and passing skills of a true PG to go along with his shooting skills, his trade value would be off the charts. As is, I think he’s primarily viewed as a combo guard.

Ant's handle is nice. His court vision and passing on the other hand... you've got a good point with that, I think. It's still hard to definitively say given the opportunities he's had... dude has started next to Dame or when the team was tanking and he didn't have NBA level talent to pass to.

I do think Ant's value is as a scorer in an offense with a better facilitator than he is but I do think that Ant has starter value in this league or at the very least super super sixth man and I think his contract is indicative of that value... not super team friendly but not close to negative value.

 

[julius]

That is possibly the most incorrect statement I have ever read online.

Though green font may have been inferred.

Just a hint.

 

[wizenheimer]

dumb-threads-r-us

 

[Shaboid]

Noted. Now know that nobody on this entire planet gives a flying shit where "you were on the Ant trade".

 

[tykendo]

MoneyMaker , Your formal complaint will be filed and noted at E.S.M.F.

 

[TBpup]

Since the list of point guards who are similar to Dame begins and ends with Steph Curry, I’m not particularly impressed with the discussion about how few win titles. And, if the Blazers trade Dame and keep Ant as the PG of the future, I can state with no hesitation that most of those calling for him to be kept will be on the “Trade Ant” bandwagon within a year because ANT IS NOT A POINT GUARD.

But Dame and Steph aren't in the same category. Dame is a really good shooter. Steph may be the greatest of all time. Dame is best with the ball in his hands. Steph is great with the ball or off ball. So they aren't that similar other than they are both offensive PG's that don't play much D.

 

[tykendo]

Good News Money Maker. Since you are loaded with dough , you can follow Ant to his new team , and root him on in person. I think Ant will have a nice career and hope he succeeds. But he's not better than Dame , and is not a facilitator. He's a 2 guard. I'd be fine with him as our 6th man. He's a sharp shooter for sure. But his salary is too high with the true needs of this Blazers team.

 

[e_blazer]

But Dame and Steph aren't in the same category. Dame is a really good shooter. Steph may be the greatest of all time. Dame is best with the ball in his hands. Steph is great with the ball or off ball. So they aren't that similar other than they are both offensive PG's that don't play much D.

I’d love to see what Dame’s shooting percentages would do if he had teammates like Klay and KD to draw a lot of defensive attention, but having the second best distance shooting PG to Steph isn’t a bad thing.

 

[wizenheimer]

I’d love to see what Dame’s shooting percentages would do if he had teammates like Klay and KD to draw a lot of defensive attention, but having the second best distance shooting PG to Steph isn’t a bad thing.

that's not how it works; get with the program: Dame isn't Bird or Magic or Lebron or Curry so he's not good enough...trade him!

 

[1 Eye Jack]

FYI I like Ant and would be perfectly fine having him be our starting PG but only if Dame ask to be traded. I love the thought of Ant and Sharpe as backcourt.

 

[TBpup]

that's not how it works; get with the program: Dame isn't Bird or Magic or Lebron or Curry so he's not good enough...trade him!

A lot of NBA titles and MVPs represented there between Bird/Magic/LeBron/Curry. To compare Dame to those 4 or put him in the same conversation.....well, to each their own.

 

[blazerkor]

FYI I like Ant and would be perfectly fine having him be our starting PG but only if Dame ask to be traded. I love the thought of Ant and Sharpe as backcourt.

I hate the idea because I want Dame to retire having only played for our team but if Dame asked out then Ant, Shaedon and Miller at 1, 2 and 3 would be pretty fucking cool.

 

[wizenheimer]

A lot of NBA titles and MVPs represented there between Bird/Magic/LeBron/Curry. To compare Dame to those 4 or put him in the same conversation.....well, to each their own.

lol wut....you say that in reply to what I said, after you've made several posts in this forum lately complaining about people twisting the context of posts and making arguments against things people didn't say?....geeeeezuzzz

I'll simplify so you can't misinterpret: I did not say, at all, ever, not once, that Dame was on the same level as those players. What I implied was that he's held up against those standards, found wanting, and vaguely criticized for not being as good as generational talents.

 

[Bingo Bango]

Before he's traded by this loser organization and becomes better than Lillard as early as next season while also being a decade younger, in what will be remembered as just one of many boneheaded moves this team has done, I want it to be fully noted that I wanted us to keep Ant and trade Lillard

So you think he’s going to suddenly experience dramatic improvement in his seventh season?

 

[lamlor]

CJ doesn't fit with Dame. Ant doesn't fit with Dame. Scoot doesn't fit with Dame. I am starting to see a pattern here.

 

[wizenheimer]

CJ doesn't fit with Dame. Ant doesn't fit with Dame. Scoot doesn't fit with Dame. I am starting to see a pattern here.

could it be the pattern is not to put a midget guard next to Dame? The NBA isn't a 6'3 and under league

 

[lamlor]

could it be the pattern is not to put a midget guard next to Dame? The NBA isn't a 6'3 and under league

Or, or, or could it be he isn't the easiest guy to play alongside? Probably the most ball dominate guard in the league. Hard to find a SG to play along side that. So what is the perfect guy? 6'5"+ that is defensive minded over scoring? Thybulle?

 

[blazerkor]

Or, or, or could it be he isn't the easiest guy to play alongside? Probably the most ball dominate guard in the league. Hard to find a SG to play along side that. So what is the perfect guy? 6'5"+ that is defensive minded over scoring? Thybulle?

Last time Dame played a competitive season.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=nba+usage+rate+leaders+2020-21

Year before

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=nba+usage+rate+leaders+2019-20

The guy isn't close to being the most ball dominant guard. The fact is that he hasn't started with a guard in the back court with him that makes sense since Wes. The fact that you're not seeing that is a bit concerning. On offense Dame is anything but a liability, his teammates not making the wide open looks he gets them has been. Dame isn't a great defender so the answer to that has been to put guys next to him in the back court that are worse defenders and ask one of those poor defensive small guards to defend a big guard. The fact that you think that it's Dame and not roster construction is ridiculous.