Ichiro- Sayonara HOF'r... (for now-?-)

[Mattingly23NY]

Say goodnight to an almost un-believable fairy tale career. So many accomplishments to note.

Sad he never got his finale tour; tho' he's the kind of player who's work ethic never agrees to retire.

As great with a bat as any.
2nd best OF arm I've ever seen, 2nd only to Roberto Clemente.

One can't heap enough praise upon this iconic living legend. Began his career in t/US same day as a much younger Albert Pujols. Count his 7 yrs of Hits in Japan, + his MLB hits; and he's one upped Pete Rose...





https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/05/04/seattle-mariners-ichiro-suzuki-career

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...eattle-mariners-front-office-rest-2018-season

https://sports.yahoo.com/ichiro-suzukis-greatest-hit-proving-belonged-065052109--mlb.html

 

[Mattingly23NY]

highlights of his illustrious HOF Career

 

[yankeesince59]

I've said this may times before but I'll say it again, as far as best all-around players that I've actually seen play, Ichiro may very well be in my top 5.

As far as defensive RFers, he may very well be the very best I've ever seen.

 

[yankeesince59]

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Matts, the only thing your video didn't show was Ichiro's incredible arm;
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[Yankeefan5545]

MLB Network ran a pretty nice piece on Ichiro this Am highlighting his offensive and defensive abilities. The Yankees pitched him well in the '01 playoffs probably as an end result of some damn good scouting because the Mariners clobbered the Yankees in regular season. Credit to him though he got back on track during the remainder of his career. While a Yankee he played one hell of a Right Field, got some timely hits as well/ First Ballot HOFER beyond shadow of a doubt. Hate to see these type of a career end but no one can escape Father Time. The man was one clean inspirational player.

 

[cagedlion]

Ichiro has served baseball at its highest level. Enjoyed watching this future^^^^^HOF who
excelled in all facets of the game. And he was modest.....a trait seldom displayed by
athletes ever! Thank you for everything you gave to the game.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

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Matts, the only thing your video didn't show was Ichiro's incredible arm;
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Doh- My bad

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Pardon the opening, ....
A 12 min collection of the man with a cannon arm. Only Clemente's could throw as well from right field...

 

[Mattingly23NY]

 

[Mattingly23NY]

 

[Mattingly23NY]

My favorite play from right field a botched throw, but we all know which is become epic history "The Flip"

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Watching these compilations of Rocket throws from The Outfield is almost as good as sex, almost...

PS - "Bo knows" too....



1 of the most memorable catches...

 

[riverman]

Classy move by the Mariners....he's a HOF player and a legend here in the NW......said even if he goes to the FO he'll still play sometimes...one of the greats to play the game.

 

[Yankeefan5545]

The '71 World Series found me stationed in Berlin. A buddy of mine HUGE Pirates fan always used to give me shit about '60 and Yankee Fans having it "so easy to root for a winner". After the Series was over he was talking shit about the Pittsburgh Team and my reply was "it so easy to root for a winner".

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Doh- My bad

to me this was an ok throw as he was running full speed in on the ball and threw it from very shallow right field...you want to say it was on target fine but to me this one clip doesnt show him being an all time great thrower

 

[yankeesince59]

As far as strength and velocity and accuracy, Ichiro's arm is legendary.

 

[Yankeefan5545]

Saw "Quick Pitch" video of Pujols & Ichiro in conversation then ashole Cano had to get himself in there. Like Iciro, Pujols is a 1st Ballot HOFER.

 

[Mattingly23NY]

to me this was an ok throw as he was running full speed in on the ball and threw it from very shallow right field...you want to say it was on target fine but to me this one clip doesnt show him being an all time great thrower

take a closer look at the 12-minute video. Then tell me this man did not have as great of an arm as any right fielder to ever play the game.

Of course Clemente was equally as great. But then you weren't yet a twinkle in your daddy's eye when Clemente played right Big Al??

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Correct i wasnt around for clemente...i do remember guys like jesse barfield and dave winfield having big arms in the outfield as well

 

[yankeesince59]

Though I liked him when he was with the Yanx, I was surprised to find that Winfield actually had a negative defensive WAR (-22.7) for his career.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Though I liked him when he was with the Yanx, I was surprised to find that Winfield actually had a negative defensive WAR (-22.7) for his career.

Isnt war very subjective?

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Though I liked him when he was with the Yanx, I was surprised to find that Winfield actually had a negative defensive WAR (-22.7) for his career.

Umm...

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/winfida01.shtml. shows over 60+ unless im reading it wrong

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Umm...

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/winfida01.shtml. shows over 60+ unless im reading it wrong

Baseball-reference.com, one of my favorite sites. I thought the site showed "Defensive WAR", but I don't see Defensive WAR on t/site, only Offensive WAR....

this can easily get complicated for a stat that's not really clearly defined. Bill James gave Winfield a -9.8 Defensive WAR.

"There seems to be a consensus in the most popular metrics that Winfield was a bad fielder, and yet he won seven gold gloves. Was Winfield vastly overrated, and the voters kept whiffing, or are there things that could account for such a large difference between perspective and data?"
Personally, I think So...


If you go to another site, i.e.
https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1014127&position=OF#fielding

then look at the overall Defensive Value, (same as WAR pretty much); over 22 yrs his total: -243.9 ÷ 22 yrs = -9.0/-9.4

then again my math could be off...

IF Defensive WAR was correct or a legit stat, then players like Roberto Alomar, Jeter, Winfield, Bernie Williams, Ken Griffey Jr, Craig Biggio and Tori Hunter would round out the top 10 worst defensive fielders of all time. We know that's incorrect. The one knock on Winfield, some say was his long lanky inability to cover ground, imo also incorrect kinda sorta...

or-
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/881922-10-most-overrated-
defenders-in-baseball-history#slide6

I've long had a problem with Defensive WAR, imo it's a weird stat to say the least DWAR is extremely objectionable...

 

[Mattingly23NY]

Isnt war very subjective?

extremely subjective and/or objective useless stats. And Yep, imo Barfield and Winfield had great arms, with (imo) Barfield having a tad better arm...

 

[yankeesince59]

Isnt war very subjective?

Well, which stat/metric would you rather use?
You obviously don't think Ichiro was that good... If you can provide evidence to the contrary, fine, let's hear it.
It's pretty simple, I think Ichiro's arm was elite, you don't...if you can show proof otherwise, I'll be glad to debate this further.

The discussion is about who is/was the best all around RFer...and defensively, Winfield was noway near as good as Ichiro...collectively, Barfield during his brief career was not as good as Ichiro....respectively, .other than bravado, I'm not sure what your argument is based on.

All I'm saying is that neither of the 2 players you mentioned had a distinctive advantage over Ichiro Suzuki.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Correct i wasnt around for clemente...i do remember guys like jesse barfield and dave winfield having big arms in the outfield as well

Well, which stat/metric would you rather use?
You obviously don't think Ichiro was that good... If you can provide evidence to the contrary, fine, let's hear it.
It's pretty simple, I think Ichiro's arm was elite, you don't...if you can show proof otherwise, I'll be glad to debate this further.

The discussion is about who is/was the best all around RFer...and defensively, Winfield was noway near as good as Ichiro...collectively, Barfield during his brief career was not as good as Ichiro....respectively, .other than bravado, I'm not sure what your argument is based on.

All I'm saying is that neither of the 2 players you mentioned had a distinctive advantage over Ichiro Suzuki.

to me this was an ok throw as he was running full speed in on the ball and threw it from very shallow right field...you want to say it was on target fine but to me this one clip doesnt show him being an all time great thrower

Correct i wasnt around for clemente...i do remember guys like jesse barfield and dave winfield having big arms in the outfield as well

Well, which stat/metric would you rather use?
You obviously don't think Ichiro was that good... If you can provide evidence to the contrary, fine, let's hear it.
It's pretty simple, I think Ichiro's arm was elite, you don't...if you can show proof otherwise, I'll be glad to debate this further.

The discussion is about who is/was the best all around RFer...and defensively, Winfield was noway near as good as Ichiro...collectively, Barfield during his brief career was not as good as Ichiro....respectively, .other than bravado, I'm not sure what your argument is based on.

All I'm saying is that neither of the 2 players you mentioned had a distinctive advantage over Ichiro Suzuki.

where again did insay he wasnt a good rf'er?
All i said was that the clip shown didnt mean he was this all time great.

As far as war goes...i dont go by stats that were made up after the fact. Goikg back in time and looking at film and determing start and ending position to determine how well a player played his position to me is not fair.

 

[yankeesince59]

Umm...

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/winfida01.shtml. shows over 60+ unless im reading it wrong

You're looking at TOTAL WAR...I believe his OFFENSIVE WAR is 70-something and Winfield's Career DEFENSIVE WAR is -22.7.

...and I clearly stated that I was "surprised" by that stat and was in no way saying or implying that Winfield was not an elite player.

 

[yankeesince59]

And Al, I'm quite aware of all of your posts...I read them all. But since your very first comment it just seemed that you were downplaying Ichiro's arm, pointing to one video that you obviously were not impressed with when there were several others that showed the strength and accuracy of his arm.

...you can discount WAR if you want to but like I said you can point to other stats if you like...for example, Barfield and Winny, and Ichiro all had a lot of OF assists...so did Clemente, but again, it's no big deal one way or the other.

 

[yankeesince59]

Baseball-reference.com, one of my favorite sites. I thought the site showed "Defensive WAR", but I don't see Defensive WAR on t/site, only Offensive WAR....

...Matts, scroll down one section and look under "Player Value".

 

[Mattingly23NY]

...Matts, scroll down one section and look under "Player Value".

Thanks, I just knew I had seen it before on baseball reference.com. another one of my senior moments Doh~