I'd like to try a little experiment

[Denny Crane]

Libertarians believe in a self-centered survival of the fittest (or the richest) approach, Democrats believe in a compassionate survival of the community approach. They have little in common.

Not exactly. Libertarians definitely don't believe in giving up Liberty in exchange for community.

 

[maxiep]

In the end, it really doesn't matter what the "party" stands for, it's what the "party" supporters will support and what they stand for. Because over time, the parties ideals will change to be in line with it's supporters. I look to the supporters and take cue from them. This applies to all large groups, not just the tea party. The Occupy movement is also not what is espoused by the groups involved, it becomes defined by the supporters. You have too many abortion activists at a tea party rally, or too many Che Guevara tee shirts at an occupy movement, and that becomes the party.

When I was in high school during the first gulf war, I was getting ready to go to a "No Blood For War" rally, my father told me to sit down so he could impart a bit of wisdom. He was around during the Vietnam protests and he realized that no matter how righteous the cause, the organizers are always self centered douchebags that are trying to steal the importance of the moment for their own spotlight. Now, some are better than others, and the cause may still justify going to the rally, but never be hoodwinked by the leaders of a cause. In retrospect, I have realized that is not always true, with leaders like MLK, but the vast majority of the time it is. And you have to realize, if its the leaders at a rally, or the supporters at a rally, once those individuals corrupt a cause, they become the face (or the voices) of the cause.

Your point is well taken. I think the problem most have is that it's not really a full-service political party, rather a movement focused on a few basic principles. What other positions people around me hold doesn't really matter to me. Therefore, it makes it tough to generalize beyond those positions.

 

[maxiep]

They, and the Occupy people need some better pr people, because they both come across as fringe lunatics.

Yep. If you believe what you read, that is indeed the case. Of course, the media tried to portray Occupy in the best light and the Tea Party in its worst.

 

[Denny Crane]

Why? I have libertarian leanings, but don't like the foreign, immigration or drug policies.

Why not vote for conservative democrats?

Why don't democrats vote for liberal republicans? They hated Bush.

I think the Tea Party has a real chance to transform the republican party. But only if they keep government out of peoples' business. Personal and private business.

 

[maxiep]

Am I close?

Very. It's not so much lower taxes (although that's a part of it), but living within our means. However, the other two are spot on.

 

[maxiep]

Not exactly. Libertarians definitely don't believe in giving up Liberty in exchange for community.

I believe in community. However, my community is voluntary, not compulsory. I help others because I want to, not because I'm compelled.

 

[maxiep]

Why not vote for conservative democrats?

Why don't democrats vote for liberal republicans? They hated Bush.

I think the Tea Party has a real chance to transform the republican party. But only if they keep government out of peoples' business. Personal and private business.

Conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans are almost gone. They've both switched sides (NE Republicans are the exception) I did vote for both Bob Packwood and Mark Hatfield, but that's when I was a Democrat.

 

[Denny Crane]

Conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans are almost gone. They've both switched sides (NE Republicans are the exception) I did vote for both Bob Packwood and Mark Hatfield, but that's when I was a Democrat.

Because republicans won't vote for a conservative democrat and vice versa.

What does RINO stand for?

 

[MARIS61]

Yep. If you believe what you read, that is indeed the case. Of course, the media tried to portray Occupy in the best light and the Tea Party in its worst.

On what planet does your media come from? I have never seen a favorable portrayal of Occupy in the media.

 

[MARIS61]

In a nutshell, no party gives a shit about it's members. It's all about the big money and none of the big money comes from Real Americans.

Dems and the Dem party have few shared goals, and the Reps and Libs are the same. Nobod yah represents you or I in our interest.

 

[blazerboy30]

The tea party is either little girls feeding pretend tea to their dolls or a subset of republicans who figure that emphasizing libertarian principles is the path to power.

I really like what they say and advertise. I fear they are only voicing part of their overall agenda. For example, Marco Rubio is a famous elected Tea Party guy. Once elected, he proposes anti abortion legislation.

Being anti-abortion isn't at odds with being libertarian.

 

[Denny Crane]

Being anti-abortion isn't at odds with being libertarian.

It's an agenda outside the big 3 the tea party claims are its agenda. That's the point. Maxiep has gone to great lengths to construct a thread to extract this admission (the big 3 agenda items) from people who somehow don't understand the tea party.

 

[Eastoff]

Is that what you believe their position is?

You asked me what "they stand for." Everything after that is subjective and thus not "right or wrong" like you said. I believe they stand for their interests and their rights, just like everyone else.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Keep government out of medicare!

Out of my cold dead hands!

Whatever the koch brothers tell me!

In jest of course...

 

[MARIS61]

Being anti-abortion isn't at odds with being libertarian.

Yeah, it's pretty much anti-Liberty to the extreme.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Why? I have libertarian leanings, but don't like the foreign, immigration or drug policies.

Those are the best ones...

 

[maxiep]

You asked me what "they stand for." Everything after that is subjective and thus not "right or wrong" like you said. I believe they stand for their interests and their rights, just like everyone else.

Perhaps I was unclear. I was asking what you think the Tea Party's platform is.

 

[maxiep]

Those are the best ones...

Yep, that's what most Ron Paul Libertarians love. It's why I'm not Libertarian. I'm not a Republican either. Instead, my philosophy cuts across political parties. I'm a man without a political home. However, the basics of the Tea Party does appeal to me greatly.

 

[blazerboy30]

Yeah, it's pretty much anti-Liberty to the extreme.

Nope.

 

[blazerboy30]

It's an agenda outside the big 3 the tea party claims are its agenda. That's the point. Maxiep has gone to great lengths to construct a thread to extract this admission (the big 3 agenda items) from people who somehow don't understand the tea party.

You made no point.

 

[Eastoff]

Perhaps I was unclear. I was asking what you think the Tea Party's platform is.

I think their platform is about pushing the american government more conservative and extreme.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Very. It's not so much lower taxes (although that's a part of it), but living within our means. However, the other two are spot on.

<fist pump> YES! In your face, westnob!

 

[DaLincolnJones]

From its inception in February 2009, the Tea Party movement has focused on three core values:

•Constitutionally Limited Government
•Free Market Principles
•Fiscal Responsibility


from http://www.oregonteaparty.org/

 

[Further]

From its inception in February 2009, the Tea Party movement has focused on three core values:

•Constitutionally Limited Government
•Free Market Principles
•Fiscal Responsibility


from http://www.oregonteaparty.org/

The Catholics, Protestants, Jehovah Witnesses, Baptists ...... all subscribe to the same text and its values, but interpretation varies substantially. What Constitutionally Limited Govt, Free Market Principles and Fiscal Responsibility mean to you are not what they mean to me, and not what they mean to others. Interpretation is left up to the individual, and so the tea party has become filled with wing-nuts.

 

[Denny Crane]

You made no point.

It wasn't even a very subtle one, but you missed it. Go reread the thread.

 

[MARIS61]

Nope.

What if the government required you to sire and raise a child on your 21st birthday despite your personal plans for your life?

 

[Eastoff]

<fist pump> YES! In your face, westnob!

I hate you! *slams my door and cries while listening to the Cure*

 

[BlazerWookee]

I hate you! *slams my door and cries while listening to the Cure*

That door better not be broken, and TURN THAT SHIT DOWN!

 

[maxiep]

I think their platform is about pushing the american government more conservative and extreme.

Cool. Thanks for your answer. I think you share a common viewpoint.

 

[maxiep]

From its inception in February 2009, the Tea Party movement has focused on three core values:

•Constitutionally Limited Government
•Free Market Principles
•Fiscal Responsibility


from http://www.oregonteaparty.org/

Exactly. Everything else is just noise. The Tea Party doesn't have a position on abortion or gay marriage or any other social issue. The individual members may have their own points of view, but not the Tea Party. Most people haven't been able to grasp it.

It's a view of the Constitution as a series of negative rights (i.e., what the government can't do to you) rather than a view of the government as a provider of rights, entitlements and benefits.

It believes that the free market (not unfettered, mind you) is the best and most efficient way to provide the citizenry with wealth and economic growth.

Finally, it believes we should live within our means. That means balancing the budget and eventually paying off the debt or bringing it to a reasonable level.

Given this platform, exactly what is the beef about the Tea Party? Again, not individuals, but the platform of the Party.

Given those three principles