If KCP/Otto Porter get max deals..

[Destroyer of Worlds]

And JJ Redick gets 18-20 mill, are Crabbe and Evan Turner really *that* overpaid?

http://nypost.com/2017/06/30/nets-have-30m-in-cap-space-how-they-could-spend-it/

 

[Chris Craig]

Yes

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

And JJ Redick gets 18-20 mill, are Crabbe and Evan Turner really *that* overpaid?

http://nypost.com/2017/06/30/nets-have-30m-in-cap-space-how-they-could-spend-it/

Just cuz teams are begging for mediocre talent and throwing big dollars at it doesn't mean they aren't overpaid. Just means we're not alone in making mistakes.

 

[Scalma]

Just cuz teams are begging for mediocre talent and throwing big dollars at it doesn't mean they aren't overpaid. Just means we're not alone in making mistakes.

It's not a mistake. It's the market and thats what it says they're worth. One day some of you will accept it.

 

[chzbrgr]

yes he still makes no sense when you look at percentage of cap he holds vs his on court contribution. "Totally Replaceable" should not describe a guy with a ~20% cap hold if you want to take yourself seriously in the NBA.

 

[ripcityboy]

And JJ Redick gets 18-20 mill, are Crabbe and Evan Turner really *that* overpaid?

http://nypost.com/2017/06/30/nets-have-30m-in-cap-space-how-they-could-spend-it/

You know how when you make a big mistake. But then your friend makes an even bigger mistake that makes you feel better about bad your judgement. Blazer fans will feel better for about 10 seconds and then realize the Blazers are still paying Evan Turner 17.5 million dollars a year.

 

[KingSpeed]

Here's the thing. We had cap room that wouldn't roll into this summer. So we gave the cap room to the best player we could get. Turner. Then Crabbe was merely matching an offer. But why on earth would anyone give JJ Reddick $20 million?!?

 

[ripcityboy]

Here's the thing. We had cap room that wouldn't roll into this summer. So we gave the cap room to the best player we could get. Turner. Then Crabbe was merely matching an offer. But why on earth would anyone give JJ Reddick $20 million?!?

Yeah. I'd rather have Turner at those inflated prices.

 

[Sarni]

Porter and Caldwell-Pope are both better players than Crabbe.

 

[Sweetriverphil]

It's really a simple question. Are the Blazers better without Allen Crabbe and Evan Turner?

Not, are they more flexible financially?

Not, do they get made fun of less by people on reddit?

Not, can unrealistic sign and trades happen?

I don't think they are. Those guys might not live up to their contracts as far as the analysts at ESPN are concerned, but I think they can both help the team win games. Which, thank goodness, our rich as fuck owner cares about most.

 

[theprunetang]

It's really a simple question. Are the Blazers better without Allen Crabbe and Evan Turner?

Not, are they more flexible financially?

Not, do they get made fun of less by people on reddit?

Not, can unrealistic sign and trades happen?

I don't think they are. Those guys might not live up to their contracts as far as the analysts at ESPN are concerned, but I think they can both help the team win games. Which, thank goodness, our rich as fuck owner cares about most.

BOOM! KAPOWWW! THAT WAS NASTY!

 

[Scalma]

It's really a simple question. Are the Blazers better without Allen Crabbe and Evan Turner?

Not, are they more flexible financially?

Not, do they get made fun of less by people on reddit?

Not, can unrealistic sign and trades happen?

I don't think they are. Those guys might not live up to their contracts as far as the analysts at ESPN are concerned, but I think they can both help the team win games. Which, thank goodness, our rich as fuck owner cares about most.

There are people on this forum that care about Paul Allens bill more than Paul Allen.

 

[Sweetriverphil]

There are people on this forum that care about Paul Allens bill more than Paul Allen.

Why? This is incredibly confusing to me.

Is this a problem for a team that can only realistically take that next step through trade? That contracts need to be matched and that only big contracts can do that? That even if you desire cap space like some weird nba fan gollum, that these contracts all expire at the same time when most of the other teams in the league at that time will be engulfed in the same cap space hell that we currently occupy?

C'mon.

 

[Sarni]

Why? This is incredibly confusing to me.

Is this a problem for a team that can only realistically take that next step through trade? That contracts need to be matched and that only big contracts can do that? That even if you desire cap space like some weird nba fan gollum, that these contracts all expire at the same time when most of the other teams in the league at that time will be engulfed in the same cap space hell that we currently occupy?

C'mon.

Well I don't mind paying luxury tax but don't feel good about having $50M locked in terrible deals. I did not understand, though, why people wanted us to throw away all the picks to get rid of these contracts, this lacked any logic whatsoever. It made sense for Lakers with Mozgov as it will create cap space next year and they are a prime FA destination and should land George. It doesn't make sense to dump contracts to get your bill down to $115M as you still cannot sign anybody. Picking good players in the draft is the only way to make up for that because maybe you will end up having a terrible player at $15M and a good young talent at $2M which has an offsetting effect.

I don't like that we spent so much last season but so did everyone else which is why more than half NBA teams are now locked into contracts which are impossible to move. Maybe we will see some bad contracts being traded back and forth in return for other bad deals, like Anderson for Biyombo etc.

Didn't Thunder give Adams $25M or something too?

 

[RipCityDSCPL]

There are people on this forum that care about Paul Allens bill more than Paul Allen.

Which is the most perplexing thing I have seen on this forum. If a billionaire wants to pay more money for his basketball team why should anybody care? It's his money and it's his team.

 

[Denny Crane]

Which is the most perplexing thing I have seen on this forum. If a billionaire wants to pay more money for his basketball team why should anybody care? It's his money and it's his team.

It's not just about PA's money. Once you've pad the LT in 3 out of 4 seasons, the CBA has harsh penalties that money can't overcome.

But we start with the tax penalty anyway. At over $20M, a $10M contract for bench player costs the team $47.5M+ in tax. That's a HUGE contract When the LT costs a $billionaire over $100M/season, it's got to hurt.




Then there's the reduced size of MLE.

If a team is $4M+ over the LT, they cannot receive players in a S&T. THIS IS HUGE.

 

[RipCityDSCPL]

It's not just about PA's money. Once you've pad the LT in 3 out of 4 seasons, the CBA has harsh penalties that money can't overcome.

But we start with the tax penalty anyway. At over $20M, a $10M contract for bench player costs the team $47.5M+ in tax. That's a HUGE contract When the LT costs a $billionaire over $100M/season, it's got to hurt.


View attachment 14940

Then there's the reduced size of MLE.

If a team is $4M+ over the LT, they cannot receive players in a S&T. THIS IS HUGE.

Yet Paul Allen doesn't care if he has to pay a luxury tax so why should you or anyone else? I feel everyone is setting themselves up for disappointment when they see the same rotation that we had last season, along with a healthy Nurkic and our draft picks added to the team.

 

[Destroyer of Worlds]

Just cuz teams are begging for mediocre talent and throwing big dollars at it doesn't mean they aren't overpaid. Just means we're not alone in making mistakes.

Economics and law of scarcity suggests that this is how market value is determined; if everyone is overpaying, it's not overpaying, it's paying market value. A great example of this would be gas. Technically *everyone* is overpaying for gas, but the market has driven prices up. Same with housing.

ET & Crabbe are not mediocre talent, imo. Evan Turner, I saw, is one of the most underrated players in the NBA according to Thibs and others. And Crabbe is a top shelf shooter. Aminu is a mediocre talent, in my opinion.

 

[Destroyer of Worlds]

yes he still makes no sense when you look at percentage of cap he holds vs his on court contribution. "Totally Replaceable" should not describe a guy with a ~20% cap hold if you want to take yourself seriously in the NBA.

KCP and Otto are about to get about 6-9 mill more per year than Crabbe and ET, and like I said before, they are not replaceable by the average journeymen. You have to pay a premium for shooting, especially nowadays, and ET while not great at anything is solid at everything, which is pretty hard to find AND one of the smartest players. Don't underestimate him calling out opponent plays for us, his dedication to film. Also, I agree they shouldn't be a massive cap hold ... but it looks like the NBA market disagrees with our forum economists

 

[Destroyer of Worlds]

Porter and Caldwell-Pope are both better players than Crabbe.

Ed Davis is better than Meyers Leonard. Doesn't mean you pay Ed Davis 18 million a year.

Porter + KCP are 6-9 million PER year better than ET/Crabbe?

Saw a report of Andre Roberson getting 15/mill year, also.

 

[Reep]

All it would take is one good year and Crabbe's deal would look very reasonable.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yet Paul Allen doesn't care if he has to pay a luxury tax so why should you or anyone else? I feel everyone is setting themselves up for disappointment when they see the same rotation that we had last season, along with a healthy Nurkic and our draft picks added to the team.

I care about having the biggest MLE possible if we're not winning. And to be able to do S&T trades if we're not winning.

Mr Allen may or may not care about paying the LT. I think he cares about paying $100M in taxes though. Who wouldn't care? He hasn't paid that kind of LT ever.

The most he's paid in LT was ~$5M in 2010. $0 since.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yes

 

[Rastapopoulos]

And JJ Redick gets 18-20 mill, are Crabbe and Evan Turner really *that* overpaid?

http://nypost.com/2017/06/30/nets-have-30m-in-cap-space-how-they-could-spend-it/

Well, of course there are three interpretations of your question:
Are they overpaid RELATIVE TO OTHER NBA Players? and
Are they overpaid in the grand scheme of things?
Are they overpaid given their role in the money-machine that is the NBA?

And the answers are: still yes, FUCK yes and probably.

 

[Destroyer of Worlds]

http://amp.timeinc.net/si/nba/2017/...ckets-chris-paul-russell-westbrook?source=dam

Interesting article on how overpaying stars is an issue with the supermax.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It's really a simple question. Are the Blazers better without Allen Crabbe and Evan Turner?

Not, are they more flexible financially?

Not, do they get made fun of less by people on reddit?

Not, can unrealistic sign and trades happen?

I don't think they are. Those guys might not live up to their contracts as far as the analysts at ESPN are concerned, but I think they can both help the team win games. Which, thank goodness, our rich as fuck owner cares about most.

Please. Post. MORE!

 

[Destroyer of Worlds]

Well, of course there are three interpretations of your question:
Are they overpaid RELATIVE TO OTHER NBA Players? and
Are they overpaid in the grand scheme of things?
Are they overpaid given their role in the money-machine that is the NBA?

And the answers are: still yes, FUCK yes and probably.

It's hard for me to come to that same conclusion that they are overpaid when we see the money that will be given out going forward, especially if players like Andre Roberson get 15 million - and he isn't even a restricted free agent. That's insane. ET at 18 is a bargain. HELL if Meyers ever got it somewhat together he would be a great deal for a backup PF/C shooter at his current rate given the numbers I've seen for other guys.

Seems like the market is giving Mid level guys more money and squeezing the upper echelon guys to take less money if they want to play on a competitive team or build a competitive team around them with supermax

 

[Boob-No-More]

There are people on this forum that care about Paul Allens bill more than Paul Allen.

And there are also people on this forum that don't give a fuck about Paul Allen's bank account balance, as long as it doesn't hinder the teams' ability to get better.

Unfortunately, overpaying guys who are underperforming does just that. One of the major features of the current CBA is that the luxury tax is no longer just a financial penalty. It also has additional penalties that make it more difficult to make roster moves to improve your team. And, that's why some of us care.

As Denny has correctly pointed out, we are already missing out on getting the full MLE this summer because we are over the tax apron. That limits the quality of any role player we could get that would help improve our bench.

Unless we can dump one of Crabbe or Turner, we will eventually (after extending Nurk) be in repeater tax territory, which severely limits out ability to complete trades.

There are implications and ramifications to overpaying underperfoming players that reach beyond Paul Allen's checking account balance. That's why bad contracts matter.

BNM

 

[Trackjack]

Well I don't care about Paul money but I don't believe over paying someone neither. What it does when you do that it restrict you making moves by trades, FA. Those tools beside the draft helps you make your team better. When you take away 2 of those tools away then your only hope is the draft that usually dont help you until the 2 or 3 year. The other way is your players all sudden get better.

 

[Denny Crane]

FWIW

Bulls are shopping Rondo. He has a ~$13M team option so trading for him gets you potentially $13M cap relieve.

I'll state the obvious. If NO doesn't do a salary dump, we're paying the LT for this and likely next seasons.

On the other hand, doing the Quarterman for cash trade is one of several salary saving moves that are obvious ones to make (and NO did).