If the Blazers are moved

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If worst case scenario happened and Blazers moved out of state would you still root for them?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • No

    Votes: 43 76.8%
  • Depends on where they moved to

    Votes: 10 17.9%

  • Total voters
    56

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that's not what the article you posted said:

"Instead of pulling from current state revenue, the bill calls for paying off the bonds through income taxes on players and staff. Proponents say it would be on the team to figure out how to fund the rest of the stadium, expected to cost $2 billion."

and, obviously, the new owners might object to a tax on arena related revenue. I'm not even sure the city has the authority to create new taxes like that, especially if they are being used to service a bond



I'm not buying it. The math just isn't there.



so it might have been 10%....maybe 8%. Do you realize how crazy that is? What players would want to play for the Portland team, if they had a 30% federal tax, an 11% state tax, and an 8% arena tax on top of it all?. If I player is making 20M/year, he'd be paying all the normal taxes plus kicking in 1.5-2M/year for an arena. Like I said...pie-in-the-sky

usually some type of participation tax like this is less than 1%. Maybe 1/2 of 1%. Remember now, the average MLB payroll is 170M. That would mean half of that would be exempt. So, 85M taxable. One percent of that is 850K. Even at a ridiculous 5%, that's around 4.3M/year from payroll tax dedicated to servicing the bonds. And if the debt service was 60M year (interest & 'principal) that comes up way short. Maybe calculate about million or so for "staff" salary taxes, although that probably high. So, to pay for 800M in debt, and it is debt, there's a base of 5-6M, at most from what that article said would pay for the bonds.

again, 800M in debt at 4% is 32M/year....just in interest. Retiring the principal would be an additional 27M/year over a 30 year span Are "parking taxes" going to pick up the slack between a 60M/year debt service and 6M/year in payroll/staff taxes?

I'm not saying that the city and maybe the state would not be willing to dip into general revenues in order to service that bonding obligation. I'm just saying there is no fucking way at all that payroll taxes on players & staff + some parking and concession taxes will offset the cost of that debt

It's not a plan to be a new tax on players, from what I've read. It basically jut takes their state income tax and designates it towards paying the bond.

Also you're cutting their payroll in half because of away games while failing to recognize we'd be taking the visiting players as well when they are here. So there is no reason to cut it in half.
I haven't seen anything on they paying 4% on interest either. I'd venture to guess that interest on repayment would be waived to support the bill.
 
It's not a plan to be a new tax on players, from what I've read. It basically jut takes their state income tax and designates it towards paying the bond.

Also you're cutting their payroll in half because of away games while failing to recognize we'd be taking the visiting players as well when they are here. So there is no reason to cut it in half.
I haven't seen anything on they paying 4% on interest either. I'd venture to guess that interest on repayment would be waived to support the bill.

who would buy bonds that pay no interest?
 
that's not what I was saying. That supposed 'support' you used as proof of intent in the form of a bond authorization appears to fit into the 'talk is cheap' category; or cart before the horse. Can you tell me if any bonds have been issued since this authorization was granted? Will the city start the construction of the stadium before it is awarded a team? Are there any plans approved for construction? Any designs at all?

besides that, the authorization seem to implicitly say there would no be general taxes levied to pay the bonds; that's why it passed the legislature so easily. Rather the cost would be born by taxes on players and staff. So then, let me riff a little bit here, say the interest rate on the bonds is around 4%. For 800M in bonds, the annual debt service would be 32M. The goal would be to pay off the bonds over a 20-30 year period. At a 25 year schedule for bond retirement, that would be another 32M/year

so, 64M year. The average MLB payroll is around 170M. So, say the total staff payroll is 30M, and that's probably way high. That would mean there's a taxable base of around 200M to allegedly support the bond authorization. That 200M income base is supposed to cover 64M year in financing. That's a tax rate of over 30% and that comes after being taxed at the federal and state level. Not only that, the average player payroll of 172M is not all Oregon taxable; only half of it is. So those numbers are all off. Probably only have a taxable base of 100-120M....to pay 64M/year in debt service. LOL...not happening

I'd suspect that in the talk-is-cheap category, the legislature just threw this out because they knew it was easy pie-in-the-sky PR. Meanwhile, the City and state would have a fiduciary duty to have a finance plan in place and the one prescribed by the legislation is horse shit. That article even talked about the 'economic denialism' inherent in the bill. In other words, the notion that this won't be financed by general revenue is nuts. Further, the notion that finding real money is as easy as finding the play money in this bill is even more nuts

I was living in Juneau Alaska in the early 80's. In the late 70's there had been a big push by the state to move the capital from Juneau to up near Anchorage. The legislature had voted to move a couple of time. And there had been a statewide ballot measure that voted overwhelmingly to move the capital. So everything was in place for the move. EXCEPT for one minor detail: how to pay for the 3B it would cost to move the capital to a new location. The legislature had a plan: higher sales taxes, AND the suspension of the annual dividend check issued to all Alaskans. So that had to be approved by ballot measure. And unsurprisingly, the same people who were gung-ho about moving the capital were not gung-ho about paying for it. The ballot measure failed and the capital is still Juneau, more than 40 years later

I don't know what is going to happen on this Arena issue. I do suspect that a renovation of the Moda won't satisfy the new owner. The location is still a bad one for monetizing the area and the renovation would be a major one and that would shut the Moda down for at least one season, maybe 2, and there's no suitable alternative venue. I'm inclined to think that the city would be ok with assuming some of the cost of a new arena. Maybe Dundon would finance the bulk of the cost, especially all the depreciable assets. But I also know that when the buck stops, a lot of time, nobody wants it to stop on their desk
Some good points.

However you shouldn't include only the home team games played in Oregon. The away team would pay the same taxes for every game. Probably simpler to just use an estimate of one team 100% full season payroll.
 
What are you talking about? The Spurs are building a new development for 4 billion - 1.5 billion of which is for a new arena.
Maybe what he means by "take that to the bank" was that they needed to keep that 1.5 Billion in a bank?
 
What are you talking about? The Spurs are building a new development for 4 billion - 1.5 billion of which is for a new arena.
Are you the same person on here who tried to tell me that the spurs arena isn’t in the middle of rodeo grounds. Even after I posted a map of it literally being in the middle of rodeo grounds.
 
that's not what the article you posted said:

"Instead of pulling from current state revenue, the bill calls for paying off the bonds through income taxes on players and staff. Proponents say it would be on the team to figure out how to fund the rest of the stadium, expected to cost $2 billion."

and, obviously, the new owners might object to a tax on arena related revenue. I'm not even sure the city has the authority to create new taxes like that, especially if they are being used to service a bond



I'm not buying it. The math just isn't there.



so it might have been 10%....maybe 8%. Do you realize how crazy that is? What players would want to play for the Portland team, if they had a 30% federal tax, an 11% state tax, and an 8% arena tax on top of it all?. If I player is making 20M/year, he'd be paying all the normal taxes plus kicking in 1.5-2M/year for an arena. Like I said...pie-in-the-sky

usually some type of participation tax like this is less than 1%. Maybe 1/2 of 1%. Remember now, the average MLB payroll is 170M. That would mean half of that would be exempt. So, 85M taxable. One percent of that is 850K. Even at a ridiculous 5%, that's around 4.3M/year from payroll tax dedicated to servicing the bonds. And if the debt service was 60M year (interest & 'principal) that comes up way short. Maybe calculate about million or so for "staff" salary taxes, although that probably high. So, to pay for 800M in debt, and it is debt, there's a base of 5-6M, at most from what that article said would pay for the bonds.

again, 800M in debt at 4% is 32M/year....just in interest. Retiring the principal would be an additional 27M/year over a 30 year span Are "parking taxes" going to pick up the slack between a 60M/year debt service and 6M/year in payroll/staff taxes?

I'm not saying that the city and maybe the state would not be willing to dip into general revenues in order to service that bonding obligation. I'm just saying there is no fucking way at all that payroll taxes on players & staff + some parking and concession taxes will offset the cost of that debt
The math doesn't add up for me either, and that was my impression as well. But I don't know all of the details.

The stuff I've listened to on podcasts and on the radio have had professionals who made it sound pretty darn legit.

That's all I'm saying.

The city and state have said that they are willing to do what it takes to allocate $800 million toward a stadium. Who am I to say they can't do it?

I simply don't have all the information.
 
The math doesn't add up for me either, and that was my impression as well. But I don't know all of the details.

The stuff I've listened to on podcasts and on the radio have had professionals who made it sound pretty darn legit.

That's all I'm saying.

The city and state have said that they are willing to do what it takes to allocate $800 million toward a stadium. Who am I to say they can't do it?

I simply don't have all the information.
A voting taxpayer?
 
The math doesn't add up for me either, and that was my impression as well. But I don't know all of the details.

The stuff I've listened to on podcasts and on the radio have had professionals who made it sound pretty darn legit.

That's all I'm saying.

The city and state have said that they are willing to do what it takes to allocate $800 million toward a stadium. Who am I to say they can't do it?

I simply don't have all the information.

I don't know if the city and state will step up to the plate. Maybe...although I believe more opposition will coalesce then you are allowing for. As I've said, I'm skeptical a renovation of the Moda will be enough

what I was really skeptical about was the article you posted about that 800M authorization as proof the city and state would step up to the plate for a new Blazer arena. Even allowing for the full 100% of an average payroll being 'taxable' in this new scheme, it's still not nearly enough to finance that debt. I had not heard about the possibility of those paying the bond tax being exempt from state taxes. That would help, but I'd suspect it would be challenged in court, and may not survive the challenge. And of course, that would be general state revenue being diverted to a stadium. So every taxpayer would be contributing.

and again....this was just a blip of costs-nothing intent in 2025 about some future event that may or may not happen.
 
Living in Austin it's actually the Spurs that are the main NBA team here. It's 70 min to the Spurs arena. The Spurs play at least two regular season games in Austin every year. The Spurs G league team is in Austin.

Yes Austin also has the Mavs and Rockets a few hours away.

Football dominates Texas and Austin has arguably the biggest college football program in the country.

I don't see any even small motivation in Austin to try and bring an NBA team here. NBA is the only pro sport already in the Austin/San Antonio area. They are by far the closest of Texas big cities.

wow only 70 min? That’s nothing. Austin def isn’t getting an nba team anytime soon if not ever
 
Spurs are tying to move TO Austin right now. You can take that inside info to the bank.

No they’re not. They’re about to get a new arena in SA even tho their arena they have now was just built in 2004
 
I just had a long conference call with Tom. The team will not be moving. He assured all of us.
Close thread.
 
Such a relief. You’re doing Gods’s work, or at least you’re imagining you are

And you claim others are insufferable???

Fyi,,having health issues, personal problems, deaths of loved ones, etc is no excuse to be an ahole… or insufferable….there is no entitlement to be had.

So sorry for trying to bring a lame joke into the convo…
 
No they’re not. They’re about to get a new arena in SA even tho their arena they have now was just built in 2004
So when they are playing regular season games IN AUSTIN for the past couple of seasons simply to see how they are supported and they are asking full time team employees if they would be willing to relocate if necessary…… I guess, yeah…..you guys know what you’re talking about, I have no clue.
 
So when they are playing regular season games IN AUSTIN for the past couple of seasons simply to see how they are supported and they are asking full time team employees if they would be willing to relocate if necessary…… I guess, yeah…..you guys know what you’re talking about, I have no clue.

Thanks for the intell. Whatever you are comfortable and confident in repeating, thank you. Insider stuff always a good thing, here.
If the Spurs do build in or near Austin, is the San Antonio part (name) an issue to the team? Fans? Rivalries, locally?
 
Thanks for the intell. Whatever you are comfortable and confident in repeating, thank you. Insider stuff always a good thing, here.
If the Spurs do build in or near Austin, is the San Antonio part (name) an issue to the team? Fans? Rivalries, locally?
No clue. Hey this was told to me over the past 18 months or so by Spurs employees. I don’t follow their situation, but a couple on here say they are building a new arena in SA. Maybe they chose to stay. Just saying it was very close to happening. Also, the Spurs arena is REALLY nice, other than it being in the middle of nowhere, I don’t know why they need a new one.
 
No clue. Hey this was told to me over the past 18 months or so by Spurs employees. I don’t follow their situation, but a couple on here say they are building a new arena in SA. Maybe they chose to stay. Just saying it was very close to happening. Also, the Spurs arena is REALLY nice, other than it being in the middle of nowhere, I don’t know why they need a new one.

I could probably find out. But I don’t want to.
 
No clue. Hey this was told to me over the past 18 months or so by Spurs employees. I don’t follow their situation, but a couple on here say they are building a new arena in SA. Maybe they chose to stay. Just saying it was very close to happening. Also, the Spurs arena is REALLY nice, other than it being in the middle of nowhere, I don’t know why they need a new one.
Ok 18 months is a lot different than the last 18 hours.

Spurs and San Antonio have agreements in developing a 4 billion area including a new arena this week. Id imagine part of the bargaining in recent months might have been threats to move to Austin.

Austin is 70min away though. If the Blazers moved to Salem would it be a crippling event to Oregon?
 
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