If Utah doesn't match

[Idog1976]

I can't see why Houston would bother with a Battier for Joel trade. I keep seeing it bandied about, but it doesn't really do anything for them this season. Yes, I know Yao is out, but adding Joel while losing Battier doesn't all of a sudden make them a contender. So why make that swap? Would make more sense for them to trade Battier to a contender for a younger player, and kind of punt this season, and hope for a healthy Yao next season. Just makes no sense for Houston at all.

Maybe if the Millsap thing falls through you can trade Rudy and Joel for Battier and Landry.

Houston still has Ariza, T-mac, Chuck Hayes and Scola. T-mac can move between the 2 and 3 as needed as can Ariza and Rudy.

I think that trade would make sense for both teams and tighten the rotation further. You then trade Blake/Outlaw/Martell + picks and $ for Hinrich.

PG Hinrich/Bayless
SG Roy/Bayless/Battier
SF Battier/Batum
PF Aldridge/Landry/Cunningham
C Oden/LMA/Pendergraph

Definitely going place with that team.

 

[shamelessblazer]

Joel/Outlaw for Rubio/Cardinal
if Rubio can't come over for two years is this reasonable?, what about with Bayless involved (or is that overspending) Pryz is from there, they need a center, and Monty loves Outlaw too.

Joel/Outlaw/Bayless for Brooks/Battier/top 5, 1st round pick

I kind of feel that we're overspending, but we get some decent youth and speed in our backcourt, and a very smart perimeter defender to help out our defense. They got a center, prospect who can score, and Outlaw to add a scoring punch with Mcgrady out. Pritch stocks up on another pick.

Joel/Outlaw/Bayless for Conley/Gasol/Jaric

Memphis gets another young scorer in Bayless, bolsters some depth with Outlaw, and gets a vet C to teach Thabeet the ropes rather than two young prospect centers. We get another Spaniard who plays smart, and a real young PG in Conley.

Outlaw/Blake for S&T Andre Miller (3 year 22 million?)

Philly adds some much needed perimeter shooting, and we get a floor general. Do we demand a lotto protected pick since we're giving up some youth?

All of these may be overspending though, I do think that consolidation is necessary should we end up signing Millsap. Do these teams look better balanced than our own though?

 

[Idog1976]

But a lineup of:


Blake/Bayless/Mills
Roy/Rudy
G.Wallace/Batum/Cunningham
LMA/Millsap/Pendergraph
Oden/Pryzbilla


WILL win a championship!


This lineup could sustain an injury and still succeed.

Wait a minute how are you getting G. Wallace straight across for Outlaw? WTF?

 

[RR7]

Nevermind when Bynum went down and Odom was dominating in the starting lineup

Boy, I wonder why? Oh, because he was playing PF. Because Bynum was out. But yeah, that strengthens your argument.

And yes, it was nice to have Odom on the bench, I agree. How many minutes did Odom play at SF, though, alongside Bynum and Gasol? Manu comes off the bench as well, but at crunch time, teams generally go with their top players, bench or starters be damned. How many times in those lineups was Odom at SF?

 

[LameR]

Joel/Outlaw for Rubio/Cardinal
if Rubio can't come over for two years is this reasonable?, what about with Bayless involved (or is that overspending) Pryz is from there, they need a center, and Monty loves Outlaw too.

Joel/Outlaw/Bayless for Brooks/Battier/top 5, 1st round pick

I kind of feel that we're overspending, but we get some decent youth and speed in our backcourt, and a very smart perimeter defender to help out our defense. They got a center, prospect who can score, and Outlaw to add a scoring punch with Mcgrady out. Pritch stocks up on another pick.

Joel/Outlaw/Bayless for Conley/Gasol/Jaric

Memphis gets another young scorer in Bayless, bolsters some depth with Outlaw, and gets a vet C to teach Thabeet the ropes rather than two young prospect centers. We get another Spaniard who plays smart, and a real young PG in Conley.

Outlaw/Blake for S&T Andre Miller (3 year 22 million?)

Philly adds some much needed perimeter shooting, and we get a floor general. Do we demand a lotto protected pick since we're giving up some youth?

All of these may be overspending though, I do think that consolidation is necessary should we end up signing Millsap. Do these teams look better balanced than our own though?

I think you overvalue our players in 3 of those 4 trades.

 

[Ed O]

If we get Millsap we all giggle like schoolgirls that we got one of the best young power forwards in the game at a reasonable contract. We then hope KP continues to explore all of his options.

If he made NO further moves, I would not be too upset. I think that the team has been unable to get the team closer to a championship in the next year or two this summer and I don't want to see us make a halfhearted effort to be more competitive at the cost of future possibilities.

Blake/Bayless
Roy/Rudy
Batum/Webster/Outlaw
Aldridge/Millsap
Oden/Joel

That's 11 pretty good players. Put some stiffs at the end of the bench and the team is in good shape with MORE talent than last year (with Webster's return and Millsap's addition) and more experience (since everyone is a year older and wiser.

Blake will still be Blake and Outlaw is still Outlaw, but both of those guys are still capable of contributing and I'm not in a hurry to get rid of any of them.

Ed O.

 

[Idog1976]

I think you overvalue our players in 3 of those 4 trades.

only the first seems out of whack to me. And that's if you don't include Rubio's possible unwillingness to come over into the equation. I actually don't like most of those trades the 2nd one especially I don't like as I don't think Brooks is what we need. I'd rather have Bayless, similar skills but much stronger and taller.

 

[Idog1976]

If we get Millsap we all giggle like schoolgirls that we got one of the best young power forwards in the game at a reasonable contract. We then hope KP continues to explore all of his options.

If he made NO further moves, I would not be too upset. I think that the team has been unable to get the team closer to a championship in the next year or two this summer and I don't want to see us make a halfhearted effort to be more competitive at the cost of future possibilities.

Blake/Bayless
Roy/Rudy
Batum/Webster/Outlaw
Aldridge/Millsap
Oden/Joel

That's 11 pretty good players. Put some stiffs at the end of the bench and the team is in good shape with MORE talent than last year (with Webster's return and Millsap's addition) and more experience (since everyone is a year older and wiser.

Blake will still be Blake and Outlaw is still Outlaw, but both of those guys are still capable of contributing and I'm not in a hurry to get rid of any of them.

Ed O.

Couldn't disagree more. My number one priority this offseason is to move Outlaw. Period. That guy has got to go.

 

[Draco]

Couldn't disagree more. My number one priority this offseason is to move Outlaw. Period. That guy has got to go.

So should we just dump him like Sergio? Seems like a waste he can still be a scorer off the bench. No he's not the answer at starting SF but if he doesn't have much trade value he still provides SOME value to the team on the court.

I'd love to trade him in a deal for Hinrich/Prince/Gerald Wallace/Sessions/Battier etc but it doesn't sound as though he has enough value.

 

[handiman]

If Odom was interested in coming to Portland and he didn't have the "baggage" then yeah I'd agree. His play on the court would be a better fit for what we're currently lacking next season.

I highly doubt he would have left LA, he would have just used us to get an extra couple million like the baby Bulls got used. Then we'd have even less time to go after free agents/trades.

Agreed. But it would have at least been worthwhile to try... It's not like targeting Hedo worked out well, either. Odom would be a better fit and at a better price than Hedo, so we wouldn't have fallen far behind on the timeline if we had prioritized differently.

 

[oldmangrouch]

What should we do next? Whatever we can to upgrade the PG situation. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Peaceman]

We should keep Joel. He is our enforcer and defense leader. Millsap will see some minutes at SF (not a lot) and we need insurance in case of injury. This depth is something we should keep. Batum is still our future SF IMO and we need him to guard the other teams best scorer.
I would like a upgrade at the PG, but the only way I see that is a sign and trade with Bucks if the will play ball. Offer of Blake, Outlaw and 2011 first round pick. Sign him for four years 28 million.

 

[Minstrel]

Odom was a better fit right now, but Millsap is a similar or better talent and younger. Honestly, if Portland gets him at this salary, it's a steal. If you can get such a talented young player for a reasonable salary and without giving up talent, you do it and figure out the rest later.

I would definitely like to see a trade done if Portland gets Millsap. My ideal would be something like Przybilla and Outlaw for Sessions and some bad contract Milwaukee would like to dump. If it was absolutely required to get the deal done, I'd include Bayless. Of course, that would leave Portland thin at small forward if Webster isn't ready to go when the season starts.

PG: Sessions (30) / Blake (18)
SG: Roy (25) / Fernandez (23)
SF: Batum (30) / Webster (8) / Roy (10)
PF: Aldridge (18) / Millsap (30)
C: Oden (30) / Aldridge (18)

If Webster is still out, Roy and Batum's minutes at small forward go up, Roy's minutes at shooting guard go down a bit and Fernandez's minutes at shooting guard go up. Not ideal, definitely. Ideally, Portland can find a serviceable small forward either in trade or for the LLE that can play a few non-embarrassing minutes per game.

 

[Draco]

Pryz, Travis and Bayless for Sessions?

I don't know if he's even an upgrade over Bayless. They both have potential along with question marks. Bayless had trouble getting minutes on a good team as a rookie, Sessions had trouble being more than a backup on a horrible team. Sessions may be a better prospect to some, Bayless may be better to others but there isn't a huge difference.

Plus we give Milwaukee Travis, Pryz and salary relief?

If we do trade Pryz and break up the deepest frontcourt rotation in the NBA I'd like to see a more established player come back.

 

[Idog1976]

Odom was a better fit right now, but Millsap is a similar or better talent and younger. Honestly, if Portland gets him at this salary, it's a steal. If you can get such a talented young player for a reasonable salary and without giving up talent, you do it and figure out the rest later.

I would definitely like to see a trade done if Portland gets Millsap. My ideal would be something like Przybilla and Outlaw for Sessions and some bad contract Milwaukee would like to dump. If it was absolutely required to get the deal done, I'd include Bayless. Of course, that would leave Portland thin at small forward if Webster isn't ready to go when the season starts.

PG: Sessions (30) / Blake (18)
SG: Roy (25) / Fernandez (23)
SF: Batum (30) / Webster (8) / Roy (10)
PF: Aldridge (18) / Millsap (30)
C: Oden (30) / Aldridge (18)

If Webster is still out, Roy and Batum's minutes at small forward go up, Roy's minutes at shooting guard go down a bit and Fernandez's minutes at shooting guard go up. Not ideal, definitely. Ideally, Portland can find a serviceable small forward either in trade or for the LLE that can play a few non-embarrassing minutes per game.

more minutes for Rudy if Webs isn't ready. I would want to keep Bayless though to see if he is the answer alongside Roy I'm not 100% sold on Sessions just as I'm not 100% sold on Bayless. I am 100% sold that one of those two would be the answer and the other would be trade bait. I'm not sure Milwaukee would be interested in that trade though. Don't they have Bogut?

What teams have a desperate need for a center or backup PG, who have a potential starting PG or SF they might be willing to get rid of?

Houston - Battier
Chicago - Hinrich
Detroit - Prince

Who else needs a 5 for their team there must be more? I know OKC does but they won't give up Westbrook and I think Batum > Green and not worth Joel.

Charlotte? Can Okafor play the 4?

I just think the Sessions door might have closed with them letting C. V. walk.

 

[Minstrel]

Pryz, Travis and Bayless for Sessions?

I don't know if he's even an upgrade over Bayless. They both have potential along with question marks.

Sessions, at ages 21 and 22, has already posted two seasons of above average PER. Bayless, at age 20, put up half the PER that Sessions did at 21. Sessions also started a significant number of games last year and continued to play really well. He showed that he didn't merely excel in a backup role.

Sessions is far, far more proven that Bayless. Bayless is a pure prospect. Sessions is a good young player with a lot of upside. There's a big difference between those two things.

I certainly think there's a chance that Bayless could be better than Sessions, but I'd take the guy who's been above average at very young ages, improved from his rookie season to year two and has plenty of room to get better. Bayless is still boom or bust. Sessions is boom or good player. There's no question to me that, right now, Sessions is the more valuable player (high upside like Bayless, but also much higher floor because he's already reached being good).

 

[MAS RipCity]

HAHAHA, did I really just read Przybilla, Outlaw, AND Bayless for Ramon Sessions? Good Lord, this guy has a bigger cult following than the Lost Boys.

 

[RoyToy]

Trading Przybilla is foolish.

 

[Idog1976]

Trading Przybilla is foolish.

not improving at the 1 and 3 is MORE foolish especially when you have LMA/Millsap/Oden the minutes crunch if you throw in Przybilla makes us have two ABSURDLY overpaid backups playing limited minutes and eventually being unhappy. By keeping Millsap 24 and trading a 30+ Joel for someone like Battier we open the window now for deep playoff runs. Our awesome front court depth won't help us if we continue to be killed at the 1 and 3.

A lineup where you trade LMA looks worse: Oden (a 5)/Joel (a 5)/Millsap (a 4) then Oden (a 5) /LMA(a 4/5)/Millsap(a 4).

Would you just keep Joel/LMA/Oden/Millsap? and not make a change to our 1 and 3?

 

[GoBlazersGo]

HAHAHA, did I really just read Przybilla, Outlaw, AND Bayless for Ramon Sessions? Good Lord, this guy has a bigger cult following than the Lost Boys.

"Love, Peace, and Nappiness" was an AWESOME album--R.I.P. Freaky Tah!

 

[Minstrel]

HAHAHA, did I really just read Przybilla, Outlaw, AND Bayless for Ramon Sessions? Good Lord, this guy has a bigger cult following than the Lost Boys.

I remember I received similar scorn last off-season when I said I'd happily trade Rudy Fernandez for Devin Harris. "Are you crazy? Harris is a mediocre player who doesn't have half the upside of RUDY. What are you smoking?"

It doesn't take any effort to identify the players who are already stars...once they reach that level, they're much harder/impossible to get. The idea is to identify players who might be undervalued/pre-breakout right now. I've presented my reasoning for why I'd do such a trade. Do you have any counter-argument other than "Don't you dare trade any of MY players for other team's players!!"

 

[Idog1976]

I remember I received similar scorn last off-season when I said I'd happily trade Rudy Fernandez for Devin Harris. "Are you crazy? Harris is a mediocre player who doesn't have half the upside of RUDY. What are you smoking?"

It doesn't take any effort to identify the players who are already stars...once they reach that level, they're much harder/impossible to get. The idea is to identify players who might be undervalued/pre-breakout right now. I've presented my reasoning for why I'd do such a trade. Do you have any counter-argument other than "Don't you dare trade any of MY players for other team's players!!"

Its funny because my opinion is the opposite in that I don't think Milwaukee goes for that trade. LOL.

 

[BlazersBlood]

Trading Przybilla is foolish.

+1

I can't believe Joel is becoming an afterthought. A lot of short memories around here.

 

[RR7]

I don't think so much it is that he is an afterthought. It's that paying him and Millsap both close to 7 million to b eon our bench doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Especially if there are weaknesses or perceived weaknesses elsewhere on the roster. I would love to keep Joel, and have him get 20 minutes a night or less behind Oden. But signing Millsap makes that unlikely. More likely than not, to justify getting Millsap, and to get more scoring on the floor, Aldridge will play some C, and Millsap will play PF. And Aldridge at C will cut into Joel's playing time. Having Joel and playing him 8 minutes a night is foolish. Having him at those 8 minutes, when his inclusion into a deal could potentially bring us back an upgrade at PG is also foolish.

 

[Idog1976]

I don't think so much it is that he is an afterthought. It's that paying him and Millsap both close to 7 million to b eon our bench doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Especially if there are weaknesses or perceived weaknesses elsewhere on the roster. I would love to keep Joel, and have him get 20 minutes a night or less behind Oden. But signing Millsap makes that unlikely. More likely than not, to justify getting Millsap, and to get more scoring on the floor, Aldridge will play some C, and Millsap will play PF. And Aldridge at C will cut into Joel's playing time. Having Joel and playing him 8 minutes a night is foolish. Having him at those 8 minutes, when his inclusion into a deal could potentially bring us back an upgrade at PG is also foolish.

or SF (Battier). PG is more important now for sure. Joel = Valuable commodity at a position of strength not an afterthought!

 

[MAS RipCity]

I remember I received similar scorn last off-season when I said I'd happily trade Rudy Fernandez for Devin Harris. "Are you crazy? Harris is a mediocre player who doesn't have half the upside of RUDY. What are you smoking?"

It doesn't take any effort to identify the players who are already stars...once they reach that level, they're much harder/impossible to get. The idea is to identify players who might be undervalued/pre-breakout right now. I've presented my reasoning for why I'd do such a trade. Do you have any counter-argument other than "Don't you dare trade any of MY players for other team's players!!"

Rudy for Devin is a ONE for ONE swap, that's not very far fetched at all. Przy (best backup big in the league), Outlaw (top 5 6th man) and Bayless (08 lotto pick) for Sessions is WAY overpaying.

 

[RoyToy]

+1

I can't believe Joel is becoming an afterthought. A lot of short memories around here.

I don't think people realize how much it would hurt losing the best rebounder and post defender on the team.

 

[BlazersBlood]

I don't think people realize how much it would hurt losing the best rebounder and post defender on the team.

No doubt. He is the toughest player we and is our enforcer. There's just too many question marks left with Oden this year, and until we're sure that Oden can stay healthy and out of foul trouble, losing Joel would leave a gaping hole in the paint on defense.

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

+1

I can't believe Joel is becoming an afterthought. A lot of short memories around here.

I don't think it's so much an afterthought as it is awareness of the fact that he is one of our most valuable trade assets (arguably THE most after Roy/LMA/Oden due to the shortage of Joel-Caliber big men in the NBA). The potential Millsap signing is opening up new possibilities in rotations, and giving us new options. Before Millsap, Joel would have probably never been traded. However, we can now wax on about what we could fetch if we included Joel in a trade.

Couple that with the lack of minutes and the fact that he can opt out at the end of this season, and I think it becomes clear he is not an afterthought at all-- It's maximizing value.

 

[handiman]

I don't think so much it is that he (Przybilla) is an afterthought. It's that paying him and Millsap both close to 7 million to b eon our bench doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Exactly my problem with the Millsap signing. If it's a choice between he and Pryz, I think Pryz brings more to the table and at a more reasonable price. Millsap is a glorified garbage player... Certainly valuable, but not at starter's salary with bench minutes. Trying to make him fit minimizes everyone else's effectiveness, forces them to play out of position, cuts their minutes, etc.