If you're not on the L-Train, what are you waiting for?

[Blazer Fanatic]

Since December 1st, with a road victory versus LAL and followed with home wins against IND and OKC, Aldridge has been on a tear. It was the OKC game LA heard his first “MVP” chants of the season.

Aldridge is averaging exactly 1 minute per game less than he did last season, and his numbers since Dec 1st have been the best stretch of his career:

25.1 PPG .489 FG% .848 FT% 12.4 RPG 3.4 APG 1.01 BPG

 

[BBert]

Those are amazing numbers.

In with the obligatory: Suck It, Hatrs!!1!

 

[Boise Blazer]

http://www.oregonsportsnews.com/tea...marcus-aldridge-is-a-legit-mvp-candidate.html

LaMarcus Aldridge is a legit MVP candidate

You could visit any number of NBA arenas across the country, and given the night, the fans of their home team will inevitably start chanting “MVP! MVP!” for their star player, regardless of said players actual season standing. This practice among fans has become commonplace since Kobe Bryant received MVP chants at Madison Square Garden during a game against the New York Knicks. Think about that, he got MVP chants at an away game. That’s impressive no matter what you think of Kobe Bryant.

However, home fans now take it upon themselves to be sure that everyone knows they want Dirk Nowitzki, or Carmelo Anthony, or LeBron James to be the MVP so much that they’ll yell at the top of their lungs at the end of any game when those players waltz up to the free throw line. Sure, it’s fun for the fans, it gets them involved in the game, and shows they pay attention enough to know who their best player is, but it doesn’t always mean that player is deserving of the recognition, and hardly carries as much weight as it did at MSG those years ago.

Chances are, if you’ve been to a game at the Rose Garden this season (Moda Center doesn’t feel right), then you’ve no doubt heard these same chants for LaMarcus Aldridge. You can’t blame the fans one bit, they haven’t seen this kind of success in Portland for some time, and the success has a lot to do with the level of play their big man is producing this year. Question is, how legitimate is LaMarcus Aldridge’s case to be the most valuable player in the NBA this year? Let’s take a look.

 

[BBert]

What? I've almost never seen fans do that during games I've watched. According to that quote, it happens at every game, in every arena? Huh?

 

[BrianFromWA]

High points first, because some people have a tendency to stop reading when they don't like what they see. He's been great defensive rebounding---whether it's because of Lopez or coaching schemes or whatever, he gets a big gold star b/c if you only counted defensive rebounds, he would be at a total rebound career high (8.7/g), and a DRB% over 25%, which puts him 14th among players who play 15mpg. (In comparison, last year, which was his previous career high--by far--he was 48th.). It's not that he's more ferocious on the boards (he's 48th in rebounding percentage per chance), but he's 10th in the league in "rebound opportunities" (defined by nba.com as being within 3.5 of a rebound). Again, whether it's scheme, drive or luck, he's putting himself in position to get a lot more rebounds on the defensive end. When he's trying to be LaMonster, he's nigh-unstoppable. Alas, he's only doing that on the defensive end (rebounding) and 30% of the time on offense.

For me, it's this inconsistency between playing down low (since we disagree on definitions, I'm going to say "10 feet and in") and pretending he's an elite shooter, especially "on the block".

He has 274 catch-and-shoot attempts (defined by nba.com as "Any jump shot outside of 10 feet where a player possessed the ball for 2 seconds or less and took no dribbles") this year (7.2/g), #4 in the league among players who have more than 15mpg, and a eFG% of 50.1% on them. That's 155th in the league (among the same qualifiers). Of the other high-volume shooters, Klay (60.4%), Dirk (57.5%), Ryan Anderson (61.0%) and Kyle Korver (71.8%) round out the top 5.

In terms of pull-up jumpers (defined by nba.com as "Any jump shot outside 10 feet where a player took 1 or more dribbles before shooting") this year, he's 16th at 6.3 attempts per game. His eFG% on them is 40.2%, 145th in the same category.
Yes, his ppg are up 2.7 per game to a total of 23.8ppg. But he's taking 3.1 more shots per game and shooting the lowest percentage of his career (47.4%), which means that for every extra shot he's putting up over last year he's only getting .87 extra points. That's turrble. He's shooting the same number of FTs (about 5/g, down a bit from 5.5 during the LaMonster days).

So unfortunately, he's only shooting 232 of his 795 shots (30%) within 10 feet of the hoop (where he gets the vast amount of his foul shots and shoots 59%). He's (comparatively) almost stopped shooting from the left side (only 101 of his 795 shots)--you might think maybe because he's shooting only 41% from there, or because schematically they don't want him over there. But it's not much better from the right side, aside from the corner 16-23-footer that he's making at 52%. Every other shot he takes from the right side (including the one he takes most, the left "block" jumper) he shoots 38% on 245 shots. For those counting at home without a calculator, that means that of the 523 shots he takes outside the paint (leading the league) he's shooting 42%, which is the same as his career 41.8% average.


Additionally, where are you getting that he's shooting 50.1% since Dec. 1? He shot 54% in October, 44% in Nov., 49.3% in Dec and 48.1% so far in Jan. He's shooting the worst percentage of his career (47%).

Looking at the win-loss splits, his rebounding is much more of a factor than his shooting, since his volume and efficiency shooting are very similar. He shoots 20.8 FGA/g for 47.9% (24.0ppg) in wins, and 21.3 FGA/g for 45.8% (23.3ppg) in losses. However, he averages 12rpg in wins and 8.6rpg in losses.

If you really want to make MVP arguments, and you really want to "jump on the L-Train", then stick with the counting stats and enjoy. The more you watch, and the more that you study what your eyes may not see, the more you realize that LMA has become the perfect Robin, and that he probably isn't even the team's MVP (I'll save that for another post), and he probably shouldn't keep jacking up the voluminous amount of jumpers that he does, since he's not doing any better than anytime else in his career (actually, worse, since he's shooting more of them).

Sure, chant M-V-P and make him feel comfortable in Portland. If it helps him sign a max extension here, great. I like having him on the team, and the potential of LaMonster bubbling below the surface. I (and everyone else should) recognize that when he's playing like LaMonster he's the best all-around big (not named LeBron) in the NBA. But recognize as well that his uptick in scoring isn't b/c he's playing more like LaMonster, it's because he's playing more like a mix of K*be's chucker-ness and Andrea Bargnani's efficiency (no, really, look it up). His rise in rebounding isn't from crashing the offensive boards (lowest total AND ORB% of his career), it's from sticking himself in position on D to get them. It's not LMA that's increasing the team's offensive efficiency to 1st in the league, since he's actually less efficient than he was last year--just taking more shots.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

BF v BFW fight! I gots ta see dis...

 

[Strenuus]

Brian throwing the facts around. I like it.

 

[julius]

This my motto. Win tonight, and then worry about the next game.

 

[Natebishop3]

@ Brian

Sometimes I think the team gets too carried away with trying to establish LA in the post, especially when there's a hot hand like Dame or Wes that should probably be getting the ball. With that said, I think this is all part of Stott's plan because he wants LA to fill the same role that Dirk filled on the championship Mavs team. The problem is that Dirk is a much better outside shooter.

 

[Natebishop3]

BF v BFW fight! I gots ta see dis...

Does saying "29-9" work in this argument?

 

[julius]

@ Brian

Sometimes I think the team gets too carried away with trying to establish LA in the post, especially when there's a hot hand like Dame or Wes that should probably be getting the ball. With that said, I think this is all part of Stott's plan because he wants LA to fill the same role that Dirk filled on the championship Mavs team. The problem is that Dirk is a much better outside shooter.

Is he a "much better" outside shooter? Dirk is a better 3 point shooter, but it's not like LaMarcus rarely shoots outside shots and is mostly an inside guy.

 

[Natebishop3]

Is he a "much better" outside shooter? Dirk is a better 3 point shooter, but it's not like LaMarcus rarely shoots outside shots and is mostly an inside guy.

Let me put it this way.... I would rather have Dirk shooting jumpers for my team than LA.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Dirk (in a "down" year) is at 47% on catch-and-shoots, and 44.1% on pullups. But look at his shotchart, and see how many of his shots are where LMA takes them (and the %'s) and how many 3s he takes.

 

[BBert]

I just figured LaMarcus doesn't get offensive rebounds because he's not in position to get them because that's not how the offense is designed. Although I'll admit, when the game is on the line, he is often the one down there in the trenches digging them out.

As for not increasing the team's offensive efficiency because his jump shots aren't very efficient, I figured making Aldridge the focal point is by design to open up the offense for our highly efficient three point shooters and offensive rebounders. In that sense I figure he's indirectly helping to increase efficiency.

 

[blue9]

+1 To everything Brian wrote.

I haven't wanted to harp on it too much (mainly just in game threads) because there are very few people that are receptive to the message. But also because I'm still holding out a small amount of hope that we'll see a change after the All Star break. I can understand "taking it easy" for the first half of the season so that we're not beat up going into the POs. But something that's concerning is that on the rare occasion when LMA does go to work in the paint his moves don't look good, and often result in a badly missed shot. It makes sense - he's out of practice. We're going to need him to push that FG% up above 50% and increase his FTA if we're going to have success in the POs. But first he needs to reorient himself with the inside game.

I'll add that I've noticed significant improvement in his defense. He still doesn't rotate on help-D very well, but his man-D has definitely gotten better. It's great that both his rebounding and man-D have improved, but otherwise he has actually regressed.

 

[blue9]

As for not increasing the team's offensive efficiency because his jump shots aren't very efficient, I figured making Aldridge the focal point is by design to open up the offense for our highly efficient three point shooters...

This just has never made any sense to me. How does an 18' jump shooter open up space for 23' jump shooters? Wouldn't it be far more effective, in both FG% AND creating space, to have him close to the basket? Put him within 10' of the hoop and that's 13' of space to the nearest possible 3-point shooter, vs 5' from where he typically shoots.

 

[RR7]

This just has never made any sense to me. How does an 18' jump shooter open up space for 23' jump shooters? Wouldn't it be far more effective, in both FG% AND creating space, to have him close to the basket? Put him within 10' of the hoop and that's 13' of space to the nearest possible 3-point shooter, vs 5' from where he typically shoots.

If you're looking specifically at where he shoots from, then sure. But then again, if he's shooting from there, he doesn't really need to create space for others. I dunno where you can find a stat of where he otherwise is touching the ball, and the space it'd create. Meaning, how often is he on the block, and then kicking out to open shooters? I dunno what stat you'll find for it, but that'd be where he's creating space.

 

[Draco]

I just figured LaMarcus doesn't get offensive rebounds because he's not in position to get them because that's not how the offense is designed. Although I'll admit, when the game is on the line, he is often the one down there in the trenches digging them out.

As for not increasing the team's offensive efficiency because his jump shots aren't very efficient, I figured making Aldridge the focal point is by design to open up the offense for our highly efficient three point shooters and offensive rebounders. In that sense I figure he's indirectly helping to increase efficiency.

That's how I look at it. LaMarcus is like Westbrook, his individual stats aren't impressive efficiently. But he puts the team in a position where others can be extremely effective. The teammates play so much better with those guys on the floor. It's like the "Lopez" effect but for scoring.

 

[blue9]

If you're looking specifically at where he shoots from, then sure. But then again, if he's shooting from there, he doesn't really need to create space for others. I dunno where you can find a stat of where he otherwise is touching the ball, and the space it'd create. Meaning, how often is he on the block, and then kicking out to open shooters? I dunno what stat you'll find for it, but that'd be where he's creating space.

That would be interesting to see.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Quick reply to Brian's post: Lots of stuff to address in that post, but I'll start with the word inconsistent being used to describe any aspect of LA's game. Inconsistent is antonym, not a synonym for LA. He has 21 double-doubles, and 15 games of at least 20 points and 10 rebounds speaks for itself - as do the line I posted in the OP.

Rebounding:

He’s getting more boards… a lot more - which was the big knock on LA from people who didn’t appreciate his game. I would argue he’s really not a better rebounder. I would simply say that having a center and playing his natural position has been the greatest difference. Furthermore, I would submit that people who were critical of LA’s rebounding before, and are not critical now, are arguing from a bias position to begin with. I think it’s important to identify this bias when looking at other arguments.

FG%

Cherry picking, micro-managed shooting stats from a shot chart is too short on context to get so wordy about why this paints an accurate picture of LA's value or career best combined-line. What is the role of each of the players you listed to start your argument? And how much do they contribute to team wins? How do they perform in the clutch, and how often has each of them taken over games in the 4th to lead their respective teams to victory?

Klay (60.4%), Dirk (57.5%), Ryan Anderson (61.0%) and Kyle Korver (71.8%)

We'll ignore Klay and Korver, because they do more to distract than help your argument. At last look, they weren't PFs averaging 25 PPG. Dirk and Anderson are great shooters, who shoot the 3 ball which greatly enhances eFG% and TS%, but again, Brian's argument fail to paint the context well at all. What is the affect on the team? LA puts the Blazers on his back, and they are 30-9 as a result. That is the key to appreciating LA's game this season. Without that, it's just more stat geek noise. Granted, it was more difficult to appreciate his game in the past because of his role, and the tallent. But this team, built by Olshey, Coached by Stotts, is all about LA, and Portland and Blazer fans are reaping the fruits of this perfect storm.

Comparing him to Kobe, another SG that shoots 3s? Yikes... Brian is REALLY reaching to discredit LA's MVP candidate performance the past 2 months with this gem. Currently ranked 3 on NBA.com. Bueller... Bueller?

I also find the assumption Brain makes, that shooting percentages should remain constant regardless of volume of shots, role, or situation, disingenuous.

Wes killed it from 3 tonight, primarily because LA draws a LOT of attention. Take nothing away from Wes, but it's a team game, and the Blazers play it better than any team in the NBA on offense. LA is THE man on this Blazer team. Period.

I don't really understand the goal, or purpose of Brian's post, other than to discredit support for LA having the best stretch in his career. I can only assume he is not "on the L-train" - a synonym for being on the LA bandwagon, or being a fan of his. I didn't bring up other players in my OP, although I'd be happy to do so at a later point in time. I didn't say he was the best player in the NBA, or even the MVP of the NBA. But he is in the conversation whether Brian likes it or not.

If you really want to make MVP arguments, and you really want to "jump on the L-Train", then stick with the counting stats and enjoy. The more you watch, and the more that you study what your eyes may not see, the more you realize that LMA has become the perfect Robin, and that he probably isn't even the team's MVP (I'll save that for another post), and he probably shouldn't keep jacking up the voluminous amount of jumpers that he does, since he's not doing any better than anytime else in his career (actually, worse, since he's shooting more of them).

And the vitriol reaches it's climax... bravo.

"You don't watch games, you don't understand basketball, you don't study the games..." Blah, Blah, Blah. All this for posting LA's line since Dec 1st? This has been building up for a long time I suspect. lol

I don't want to get into this or the following paragraph much. This is an opinion, which Brian is entitled to, and I completely disagree with. But it does clarify for anyone reading, a bias Brain has that runs counter to what 30-9 shows. 30-9 is a good thing... if you're a Blazer fan anyway.

Sure, chant M-V-P and make him feel comfortable in Portland. If it helps him sign a max extension here, great.

It makes LA feel APPRECIATED. It is how Blazer fans show their APPRECIATION.

Brain doesn't like it. Alrighty then...

I would suggest taking some empathy classes, and perhaps a few on how to show appreciation for things and people. I might also suggest not attending Blazer games till that course work is completed and passed, to avoid any anger issues and stress that may occur as a result of hearing said chants at the game.

Like it or not, chanting MVP for LA is well deserved. Feel free to carry on any crusade to discourage BLAZER fans from doing so.

I shutter to think the arguments Brian made in previous years. I'm glad I wasn't around here for that. Yikes.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

If you're looking specifically at where he shoots from, then sure. But then again, if he's shooting from there, he doesn't really need to create space for others. I dunno where you can find a stat of where he otherwise is touching the ball, and the space it'd create. Meaning, how often is he on the block, and then kicking out to open shooters? I dunno what stat you'll find for it, but that'd be where he's creating space.

"Creating space" might be better described as "draws multiple defenders to his side of the paint."

That's the key. We saw text book execution of this tonight to an open Wes, when the ball was kicked out and swung around the perimeter. Teams are forced to jump out to cover LA's outlet, then the ball swings to the other side and it's a long run to make a contest for the whole defense.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Does saying "29-9" work in this argument?

...

I don't want to get into this or the following paragraph much. This is an opinion, which Brian is entitled to, and I completely disagree with. But it does clarify for anyone reading, a bias Brain has that runs counter to what 30-9 shows. 30-9 is a good thing... if you're a Blazer fan anyway.

...

Well, I guess that answers that question.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

Well, I guess that answers that question.

It doesn't paint the whole picture, but standing back from a distance, it is the one thing people should should see and take away from all this.

The affect LA has on the team is the gaping hole in Brian's argument.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

It doesn't paint the whole picture, but standing back from a distance, it is the one thing people should should see and take away from all this.

The affect LA has on the team is the gaping hole in Brian's argument.

You don't seem to realize that Brian doesn't have a problem with LA as a whole. He just has a problem with a preponderance of 16-23 foot jumpers. If LA did everything that he does now, but increased the percentage of his shots that he takes from the paint, Brian would be THRILLED. I have a feeling that most Blazer fans would as well.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'd just like to point out the LMA's trade value has never been higher.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Also, the Trail Blazers are now 20-2 this season when LaMarcus Aldridge leads the team in scoring.

 

[Blazer Fanatic]

You don't seem to realize that Brian doesn't have a problem with LA as a whole. He just has a problem with a preponderance of 16-23 foot jumpers. If LA did everything that he does now, but increased the percentage of his shots that he takes from the paint, Brian would be THRILLED. I have a feeling that most Blazer fans would as well.

I'm with you... were it not for the "inconsistent" and "chucker" claims, and pretty much the entire tone of his post - ending with a rant about how LA isn't even the MVP of the Blazers.

I'll just say that there is plenty of room for Brain on the L-Train when he's ready. We'll be emptying the poop tanks before we leave the station, and I'd hate to pull away and look back to see him standing in a pool of Blazer fan crapulence.

 

[PapaG]

This thread proves that some people will complain about anything. I admire BF's attempt at reasoning with BrianFromWA, but she wasn't around last summer when BfromW was urging the Blazers to trade LMA for a bag of potato chips based on one media article.

So, my response to the lengthy argument that is anti-LMA is tl;dr, because I've read variations of them same post for 7 years now. It probably has to do with mid-range shots and poor rebounding.

 

[Draco]

Yes, people nitpicked Jordan and LeBrons game until they won titles. Some fans will never be happy.

 

[Draco]

This thread proves that some people will complain about anything. I admire BF's attempt at reasoning with BrianFromWA, but she wasn't around last summer when BfromW was urging the Blazers to trade LMA for a bag of potato chips based on one media article.

So, my response to the lengthy argument that is anti-LMA is tl;dr, because I've read variations of them same post for 7 years now. It probably has to do with mid-range shots and poor rebounding.

The funny thing is he admits he doesn't watch the games but can dissect the players contributions purely from the box score. I swear some fans think basketball is played with numbers on a spreadsheet.