OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues" (6 Viewers)

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Wasn't the first time that show happened, either. National Lampoon had a dvd called lost reality 2 that had a show with a similar premise.
 
I don't hang in the OT section but this isn't basketball.
IMHO this should never have been allowed to happen. What is worse for me personally is it is a student at the High School I went to.
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The articles involved are calling this student a Transgender girl. Not sure I can agree with this? That might be a transgender boy but certainly that is not a girl.

Maybe they should come up with a classification for sports to only include transgender boys and girls. Of course then it wouldn't be fair right? The transgender students that were once boys would have the advantage right?
 
kjironman1 said:
I don't hang in the OT section but this isn't basketball.
IMHO this should never have been allowed to happen. What is worse for me personally is it is a student at the High School I went to.
443717236_792448582859184_6831300708274323431_n.jpg


The articles involved are calling this student a Transgender girl. Not sure I can agree with this? That might be a transgender boy but certainly that is not a girl.

Maybe they should come up with a classification for sports to only include transgender boys and girls. Of course then it wouldn't be fair right? The transgender students that were once boys would have the advantage right?
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IMO, the only fair way to handle this issue is to change "boys" designations in sports to "open"--require someone to be AFAB to participate in the "girls" division, and allow anyone who wants to to participate in the "open" division.
 
crandc said:
No, @kjironman1 you do not get to define another person's gender.
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Yes I most certainly do!
Nobody else has to agree with it but you don’t on any level get to tell me what to think.
That is a boy. He was born a boy and that will never change.
Now here’s the part I don’t get to do. I don’t get to tell him what gender he prefers to be. I don’t get to tell you how to feel or think about it.
Fair is fair and it goes both ways.
 
Now I’ve said my piece on here and beings my thread got shut down and merged with another thread I will bow out and go back to Basketball only.
See ya.
 
crandc said:
No, @kjironman1 you do not get to define another person's gender.
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Bullshit!!!!

You do not get to make false claims. Kjirornman never defined anyones gender. His point was, people born as a male should not compete in female only sprorts.

There are many reasons this is unfair for female sporting events. But this behavior has also resulted in creepy situations in lockerrooms.

BTW, gender is assigned at conception. Why do you keep ignoring science?
 
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oldfisherman said:
BTW, gender is assigned at conception. Why do you keep ignoring science?
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Actually, the science says there are people born with two genders.

Intersex is a term used to describe people who are born with reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't fit the male/female binary. It's also known as hermaphroditism and is a naturally occurring variation in humans. Intersex is a disorder of sex development (DSD) that's estimated to affect 1–2% of the population.​
 
PtldPlatypus said:
IMO, the only fair way to handle this issue is to change "boys" designations in sports to "open"--require someone to be AFAB to participate in the "girls" division, and allow anyone who wants to to participate in the "open" division.
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Yes. This is the only way to get this right.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Actually, the science says there are people born with two genders.

Intersex is a term used to describe people who are born with reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn't fit the male/female binary. It's also known as hermaphroditism and is a naturally occurring variation in humans. Intersex is a disorder of sex development (DSD) that's estimated to affect 1–2% of the population.​
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And they should be encouraged to join the open division and be celebrated for who they are, IMO.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
And they should be encouraged to join the open division and celebrated for who they are, IMO.
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Here is a good article about the benefits of playing high school sports. Sometimes we forget why sports are important and should be accessible to all kids.

10 Benefits of Playing High School Sports
Participating in high school athletics can provide students with lifelong skills, lessons, relationships, and benefits.

1) Physical Fitness
Staying physically active is important, especially for a growing body. Cardiovascular and strength training from sports like soccer, football, or basketball helps students nurture their minds and bodies. Developing the habit of training early on helps encourage a lifelong active lifestyle. Many people who play high school sports remain physically active throughout adulthood.

2) Improved Academic Performance
Playing sports helps some students stay focused and perform better in the classroom. There are two main aspects to how playing a sport influences academic performance. The first is straightforward: there are minimum grade requirements to participate in school sports.

The second has to do with brain performance. For some students, learning game strategies and memorizing plays helps with logic in the classroom. For others, academic improvement is sparked by the positive influence of a coach or mentor. Positive peer influence and healthy classroom competition can result in higher academic achievement.

3) Social Relationships
Mix the ups and downs of competition with a group of committed, like-minded people over a period of many months, and you’ll end up with deep teammate relationships. A healthy team pushes one another to succeed and grow. Students experience times of frustration, forgiveness, and camaraderie during games and practices. Coaches foster a healthy and safe environment for these relationships to develop.

4) Facing Adversity
Life isn’t easy. Life isn’t fair. These idioms may be overused, but they are still true. High school sports are a sure-fire way to learn these hard truths. Any high school athlete will tell you that during their time on a team, they’ve had to work hard, be disciplined, show up when they didn’t want to, and stop making excuses. Forming these habits now pays dividends in life after high school.

5) Teamwork & Cooperation
Skills like teamwork and cooperation are important at every stage of life. From the playground to the sports field, and then on into business meetings, getting along and working with others to accomplish a goal is key to smooth working relationships. High school sports - both team and individual - teach players these important life skills.

6) Positive Mentors
Coaches are often lifelong players and supporters of their sports. They love what they do and truly care about the students they mentor. Many times, students and coaches stay connected throughout their lives. Other times, it’s a lesson learned or a moment on the field remembered. High school sports provide a great place for positive mentorship. At LuHi, coaches at every level want to develop Christian character in their players and model a Christ-like attitude. LuHi student-athletes receive guidance from their coaches from a biblical worldview.

7) Leadership Skills
On the court or the field, student-athletes must make decisions and act as leaders. Calling plays, reacting quickly, and working toward a common goal are all ways leadership is important during the game or match. Off the field, student-athletes are leaders within the school as well. They represent a collective school spirit and demonstrate honor and dedication to the school while their peers cheer them on. Athletes learn how to lead by example, lead through good sportsmanship, and lead in their actions.

8) Time Management
High school athletes juggle school, homework, practice, family, faith, projects, training, and games. It’s a lot to keep track of. The experience of managing it in high school helps students better manage time throughout their lives. Participating in sports teaches students the importance of keeping appointments, allowing for prep and travel time, and learning time management habits.

9) Community Representation
Part of the high school sports experience is being part of a larger community and providing role modeling for others. Student-athletes are responsible for representing Lutheran High School, Christ, and our community. It’s an incredible opportunity to be part of something that inspires others. Learning about community participation and representation in high school builds connectivity for life.

10) Success Mindset
Finally, high school sports help players develop a success mindset that can serve them throughout college and their careers. Sports teach students how to define success, set short and long-term goals, and take responsibility. Having a drive to win - both personally and for the team - pushes students to be persistent in achieving their goals. These traits are valued in every career and industry.

https://www.lhsparker.org/blog/9-benefits-of-playing-high-school-sports
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Here is a good article about the benefits of playing high school sports. Sometimes we forget why sports are important and should be accessible to all kids.

10 Benefits of Playing High School Sports
Participating in high school athletics can provide students with lifelong skills, lessons, relationships, and benefits.

1) Physical Fitness
Staying physically active is important, especially for a growing body. Cardiovascular and strength training from sports like soccer, football, or basketball helps students nurture their minds and bodies. Developing the habit of training early on helps encourage a lifelong active lifestyle. Many people who play high school sports remain physically active throughout adulthood.

2) Improved Academic Performance
Playing sports helps some students stay focused and perform better in the classroom. There are two main aspects to how playing a sport influences academic performance. The first is straightforward: there are minimum grade requirements to participate in school sports.

The second has to do with brain performance. For some students, learning game strategies and memorizing plays helps with logic in the classroom. For others, academic improvement is sparked by the positive influence of a coach or mentor. Positive peer influence and healthy classroom competition can result in higher academic achievement.

3) Social Relationships
Mix the ups and downs of competition with a group of committed, like-minded people over a period of many months, and you’ll end up with deep teammate relationships. A healthy team pushes one another to succeed and grow. Students experience times of frustration, forgiveness, and camaraderie during games and practices. Coaches foster a healthy and safe environment for these relationships to develop.

4) Facing Adversity
Life isn’t easy. Life isn’t fair. These idioms may be overused, but they are still true. High school sports are a sure-fire way to learn these hard truths. Any high school athlete will tell you that during their time on a team, they’ve had to work hard, be disciplined, show up when they didn’t want to, and stop making excuses. Forming these habits now pays dividends in life after high school.

5) Teamwork & Cooperation
Skills like teamwork and cooperation are important at every stage of life. From the playground to the sports field, and then on into business meetings, getting along and working with others to accomplish a goal is key to smooth working relationships. High school sports - both team and individual - teach players these important life skills.

6) Positive Mentors
Coaches are often lifelong players and supporters of their sports. They love what they do and truly care about the students they mentor. Many times, students and coaches stay connected throughout their lives. Other times, it’s a lesson learned or a moment on the field remembered. High school sports provide a great place for positive mentorship. At LuHi, coaches at every level want to develop Christian character in their players and model a Christ-like attitude. LuHi student-athletes receive guidance from their coaches from a biblical worldview.

7) Leadership Skills
On the court or the field, student-athletes must make decisions and act as leaders. Calling plays, reacting quickly, and working toward a common goal are all ways leadership is important during the game or match. Off the field, student-athletes are leaders within the school as well. They represent a collective school spirit and demonstrate honor and dedication to the school while their peers cheer them on. Athletes learn how to lead by example, lead through good sportsmanship, and lead in their actions.

8) Time Management
High school athletes juggle school, homework, practice, family, faith, projects, training, and games. It’s a lot to keep track of. The experience of managing it in high school helps students better manage time throughout their lives. Participating in sports teaches students the importance of keeping appointments, allowing for prep and travel time, and learning time management habits.

9) Community Representation
Part of the high school sports experience is being part of a larger community and providing role modeling for others. Student-athletes are responsible for representing Lutheran High School, Christ, and our community. It’s an incredible opportunity to be part of something that inspires others. Learning about community participation and representation in high school builds connectivity for life.

10) Success Mindset
Finally, high school sports help players develop a success mindset that can serve them throughout college and their careers. Sports teach students how to define success, set short and long-term goals, and take responsibility. Having a drive to win - both personally and for the team - pushes students to be persistent in achieving their goals. These traits are valued in every career and industry.

https://www.lhsparker.org/blog/9-benefits-of-playing-high-school-sports
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And sandbagging in general tends to overshadow all of this and is incredibly counterproductive in almost every way.
 
Excuse me, but the post said the individual is maybe a trans boy but not a trans girl. That sure sounds like defining gender.

I am not the one ignoring science. Genetic sex and gender don't always align. They aren't the same thing.

And not everyone is XX or XY btw.

You want to segregate trans kids away from cis athletes? What resources would they have? Do you do genital checks or DNA tests to figure out who gets segregated? Why not a scarlet letter since you are so determined to stigmatize?

And when was the last time you actually spoke to any trans person?
 
I am trying to figure out how to Ignore a thread? The notifications keep coming up in my comment box.

Edit- Alerts
 
I'm completely supportive of any humun's right to identify as they choose and live with their choices...there are a few areas I do not support...competitive sports is one...not only with transgendered athletes but in some cases with men vs women period. I do not ever want to see women and men boxing or cage fighting period. Call me old fashioned but not homophonbic or transphobic.....as a straight male I also have the right to define the world around me according to my own observations. When I'm mistaken I'll admit it. I know many transgendered professionals and people. ....all of them I know were biological males who transitioned to female identities...some very well, some not so well. I don't want to see them punching women or running in the olympics against them. If that's a flaw on my part, it's not going to change unless I pretend to accept it for the sake of political correctness and I don't feel the need to do that.
 
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crandc said:
And when was the last time you actually spoke to any trans person?
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When was the last time you talked with a biological female athlete about competing against trans athletes who are taking hormones/steroids?et... to transition? My granddaughter is on a softball scholarship and she has concerns about it. I understand her concerns as I have the same ones. Neither of our concerns has anything to do with sexual identity but biological advantages/disadvantages.
 
kjironman1 said:
I am trying to figure out how to Ignore a thread? The notifications keep coming up in my comment box.

Edit- Alerts
Click to expand...

Do you mean alerts for people responding to your posts, or alerts for the thread itself? There should be a way to unfollow a thread, tho I don't know it off the top of my head, but you can just ignore the original author of the post (in this case, you could ignore ABM), tho I'm not sure if that blocks you from seeing the thread. I'll look into it and get back to this (unless someone else beats me to it)
edit:

there is a 'watch this thread' option at the top of the posts, you could try clicking on that and changing it to not getting notifications, iirc.
 
If the typical physical exam cannot accurately determine classification and anything else would be too invasive (and I agree, with how much less invasive physical exams have become, it would be) then biological sex given by doctors at birth is the only fair way to do it. That is a medical document unrelated to sports and no excessive testing or prodding would be needed. This would correctly classify 99.98% of all children. And ambiguity occurs equally among boys and girls, so only 0.01% of potential female athletes would be negatively impacted. This seems like the most fair option by far, and the best for women's sports.

It seems any other avenue would eventually lead to what we've seen in canadian women's powerlifting or at the other extreme invasive testing that nobody wants people to be subjected to.
 
Phatguysrule said:
If the typical physical exam cannot accurately determine classification and anything else would be too invasive (and I agree, with how much less invasive physical exams have become, it would be) then biological sex given by doctors at birth is the only fair way to do it. That is a medical document unrelated to sports and no excessive testing or prodding would be needed. This would correctly classify 99.98% of all children. And ambiguity occurs equally among boys and girls, so only 0.01% of potential female athletes would be negatively impacted. This seems like the most fair option by far, and the best for women's sports.

It seems any other avenue would eventually lead to what we've seen in canadian women's powerlifting or at the other extreme invasive testing that nobody wants people to be subjected to.
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I don't really have a dog in this fight but I am curious where you came up with the 99.98%
 
Kano John said:
I don't really have a dog in this fight but I am curious where you came up with the 99.98%
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The NIH link says 1 in 5000 (0.02%) infants have Ambiguous Genitalia. So half of those could be girls.

So really it would put 99.99% in the accurate division based on that criteria.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The NIH link says 1 in 5000 (0.02%) infants have Ambiguous Genitalia. So half of those could be girls.

So really it would put 99.99% in the accurate division based on that criteria.
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I don't know this for sure but I would venture to guess that if you talked to a transgender person they would tell you that there is more to their decision to transition than genitalia.
 
Kano John said:
I don't know this for sure but I would venture to guess that if you talked to a transgender person they would tell you that there is more to their decision to transition than genitalia.
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Sports classifications shouldn't consider an individual person's decisions. There is no way to do so effectively.

Assignment at birth is the most fair, accurate, consistent, and least invasive way to determine who should be allowed to compete in women's only divisions.

If somebody can propose something else that is less invasive and more than 99.99% accurate I'd probably support that instead.
 
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I am aware of the concerns of cis women. But there are outliers in sports and other fields. Brittney Griner gave her high school team a huge advantage. Should she have been banned? She's taller than most men. Was it unfair? Yes, actually. In life there are advantages. Like being straight and cis. White and male.

No one has found a man who wakes up one morning and says I think I will become a woman and win a gold medal. People who their whole lives have been demonized and rejected. Abused, thrown out of their homes, assaulted. Are they doing all this just to win a game?

School boards and state legislatures devote sessions to banning trans people from sports, criminalizing health care, saying their existence harms children and making it a crime to simply use a restroom.

All that to win a race?
And the solution is to segregate trans people as unfit toi mingle with "real" people?
 
crandc said:
I am aware of the concerns of cis women. But there are outliers in sports and other fields. Brittney Griner gave her high school team a huge advantage. Should she have been banned? She's taller than most men. Was it unfair? Yes, actually. In life there are advantages. Like being straight and cis. White and male.

No one has found a man who wakes up one morning and says I think I will become a woman and win a gold medal. People who their whole lives have been demonized and rejected. Abused, thrown out of their homes, assaulted. Are they doing all this just to win a game?

School boards and state legislatures devote sessions to banning trans people from sports, criminalizing health care, saying their existence harms children and making it a crime to simply use a restroom.

All that to win a race?
And the solution is to segregate trans people as unfit toi mingle with "real" people?
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I think I understand what you're saying. I'm curious though... What solution would you like to see?
 
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Well, if everyone can't come to a common understanding on this, I'm afraid I'll have no choice but to cancel all sporting events at all levels so as to restore order.

And if you can't agree about who uses what restroom, I'm going to eliminate restrooms.

Not bluffing here.

barfo
 
As far as trans people go, if they can begin transition earlier it's much less of an issue. But IMHO many people, not accusing anyone here, mean politicians, don't want solutions, they want someone they can use to whip up moral panic.

Don't know about anyone else but I have never peeked into restroom stalls to verify the genitalia of the person urinating next to me.
 
crandc said:
As far as trans people go, if they can begin transition earlier it's much less of an issue. But IMHO many people, not accusing anyone here, mean politicians, don't want solutions, they want someone they can use to whip up moral panic.

Don't know about anyone else but I have never peeked into restroom stalls to verify the genitalia of the person urinating next to me.
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Agreed. The restroom complaints are insane. I actually do like the solution of just making more individual restrooms anyway. I like the privacy.

I also agree that most politicians only care about most of these issues to rile up their base.

I don't want anybody targeted, but I don't know if there is any agreeable way to allow people who have transitioned from biological male to compete against women without making women's sports less enjoyable for all.

But absolutely, everyone should be allowed to compete if they have the ability. And every child should be able to play youth sports for sure. Regardless of ability.

But there obviously needs to be a line between the women's divisions and men's. I simply can't think of a more fair one. And I've tried. We've discussed it in this thread and I found that my proposal at the time was far more invasive than current physicals, and as such would not be appropriate. So I've adjusted my position with that in mind. I'm open to adjusting my position again.

I'd love to hear of alternate proposals that could maybe be more appealing. And that's not a challenge to anyone in here. Just an honest invitation to anyone who may have a better idea.

I'm interested in the discussion because I've coached girls for nearly a decade and have 3 daughters who are athletes. I've had many discussions with concerned parents, coaches, and players. I'd love to have an agreeable solution to talk to them about.
 
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