OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues" (3 Viewers)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 4 (members: 0, guests: 4)
Status
Not open for further replies.
GRUe9yQ.png
 
BlazerBender said:
Welcome back @Everything Beagle
Hope you dont hate me. If you left due to me, I apologize.
Click to expand...

Nah it wasn't you, it was @Phatguysrule. But like, after a year of *gestures vaguely at all of everything* I figure I have bigger things to deal with than getting worked up over the people who don't have the power to make me illegal.
 
Everything Beagle said:
Nah it wasn't you, it was @Phatguysrule. But like, after a year of *gestures vaguely at all of everything* I figure I have bigger things to deal with than getting worked up over the people who don't have the power to make me illegal.
Click to expand...
I would never want or advocate for anything of the sort. That suggestion would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

I'm sorry you've had a tough run of things, but there is no need to be dishonest.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I would never want or advocate for anything of the sort. That suggestion would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

I'm sorry you've had a tough run of things, but there is no need to be dishonest.
Click to expand...

Maybe it's not dishonesty but a misunderstanding between you two.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Maybe it's not dishonesty but a misunderstanding between you two.
Click to expand...
I'm reading it and I've never supported or suggested making anybody illegal. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Looks like dishonesty at the very least.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I'm reading it and I've never supported or suggested making anybody illegal.

Looks like dishonesty at the very least.
Click to expand...
I wasn’t talking about you I was talking about real politicians doing real politics against me. What I was trying to say is I realized that worrying about your opinions on trans-ness isn’t worth my time, because you don’t have any power, so I shouldn’t stay away.

(sorry for the edits: the edibles are hitting and my spelling has gone to shit)
 
Everything Beagle said:
I wasn’t talking about you I was talking about real politicians doing real politics against me. What I was trying to say is I realized that worrying about your opinions on trans-ness isn’t worth my time, so I should stay away.
Click to expand...
Great. Just to be clear.

My opinion on trans-ness is that everyone can be or do what they want, as long as it doesn't adversely impact others.

Everyone should have the same legal rights as anybody else.
 
Last edited:
Phatguysrule said:
Great. Just to be clear.

My opinion on "trans-ness" is that everyone can be or do what they want, as long as it doesn't adversely impact others.

Everyone should have the same legal rights as anybody else.
Click to expand...

We are agreed. I would love not to be adversely impacted by others. I’d also like the same moral rights as everyone else, but I won’t push my luck.

(Edit: I had a question here but never mind)
 
Last edited:
Everything Beagle said:
We are agreed. I would love not to be adversely impacted by others. I’d also like the same moral rights as everyone else, but I won’t push my luck.

(Edit: I had a question here but never mind)
Click to expand...
Excellent. I'm not sure what you mean by moral rights, but I'm pretty sure I support everyone having equal moral rights as well.

I am sorry if the way I've reacted to some of your posts has negativity impacted you. That's never been my intention, and it is something I have to work on, even in my day to day life. Responding, rather than reacting.

Please feel free to ask me any question you like. I very much enjoy our conversations.
 
Last edited:
When I say moral rights it’s a lot more squishy than legal rights, but operate kind of as something that includes legal rights. Like, having the same legal rights as everyone else is one moral right. Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, benefit of the doubt, etc., social contract shit.

Trans people live outside the social contract, having been explicitly excluded from it. Rather than accept that we are people and thus already in the social contract, our entry into the wider moral rights afforded to cis people* trans people have to petition to be included, and the act of including us is presented as inconvenient and laborious, while the cis people pat themselves on the back for expanding their bubble (which again I want to add NOBODY SHOULD BE EXCLUDED FROM).

*(but really only straight white men get the full set of the moral and legal rights)

this is what I mean too about being adversely impacted by others. Because every social contract must be petitioned and accepted, I have to state my case and prove my legitimacy much more explicitly than cis whites do (people of color have to also petition whites for inclusion more explicitly). I don’t get the benefit of the doubt, or more importantly, I don’t get the right to privacy through assumption of goodwill.

queer people are tired all the time; that’s the joke, and it’s fucking true. I’m exhausted. I’m a fucking wreck. But I didn’t know why until it hit me: we are constantly pushing uphill. We don’t get to coast, because systems and people add little bits of resistance by having to add me into their social contract instead of assuming I’m already in it. This is literally the concept of passing. It’s putting in a bunch of work to conform to the narrower set of social norms that make a person assume you’re fine without interrogating you to decide how to feel about you.

It’s fucking exhausting, because I’m constantly on guard for signs that I’m being dehumanized, pushed gently against the bounds of the social contract bubble, seeing if maybe I might just do them a favor and fall out. And a lot of the signs are plausibly deniable, accidental or even invisible to the person doing it. But we have to be vigilant about it, like we’re protecting our brand or something. Protecting our worth. Because if we let it go, let it go, let it go, then suddenly we’re in a room with a bunch of people who were okay with dehumanizing me, and thought it was okay because I didn’t tell them it wasn’t. And now the next trans person that room of people encounters is starting at a disadvantage, because I told them it was okay to think of me as lesser.

Anyway, when you put trans-ness in quotes like it was a pretend word with no meaning, I got my hackles up for a second because I wanted to point out this way you’re delegitimizing my identity. But like, I also gotta balance that with being chill enough to make good on my promise not to let it get to me. So I edited it out. Eventually I decided that you didn’t do that maliciously. But I bring it up now as a sort of blanket defense against any effects that could have on someone’s opinion of my identity.
 
Everything Beagle said:
Nah it wasn't you, it was @Phatguysrule. But like, after a year of *gestures vaguely at all of everything* I figure I have bigger things to deal with than getting worked up over the people who don't have the power to make me illegal.
Click to expand...

Well welcome back.
Fyi. Im pretty sure there is some miss communication going on. Im pretty sure @Phatguysrule would never discriminate against anyone regardless of sexual preference, color of skin or ethnical heritage. Im pretty sure he believes all humans to be equal and should all have equal rights regardless. However ill let him expound upon this. I certainly do not want to put words in his mouth.
 
Everything Beagle said:
When I say moral rights it’s a lot more squishy than legal rights, but operate kind of as something that includes legal rights. Like, having the same legal rights as everyone else is one moral right. Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, benefit of the doubt, etc., social contract shit.

Trans people live outside the social contract, having been explicitly excluded from it. Rather than accept that we are people and thus already in the social contract, our entry into the wider moral rights afforded to cis people* trans people have to petition to be included, and the act of including us is presented as inconvenient and laborious, while the cis people pat themselves on the back for expanding their bubble (which again I want to add NOBODY SHOULD BE EXCLUDED FROM).

*(but really only straight white men get the full set of the moral and legal rights)

this is what I mean too about being adversely impacted by others. Because every social contract must be petitioned and accepted, I have to state my case and prove my legitimacy much more explicitly than cis whites do (people of color have to also petition whites for inclusion more explicitly). I don’t get the benefit of the doubt, or more importantly, I don’t get the right to privacy through assumption of goodwill.

queer people are tired all the time; that’s the joke, and it’s fucking true. I’m exhausted. I’m a fucking wreck. But I didn’t know why until it hit me: we are constantly pushing uphill. We don’t get to coast, because systems and people add little bits of resistance by having to add me into their social contract instead of assuming I’m already in it. This is literally the concept of passing. It’s putting in a bunch of work to conform to the narrower set of social norms that make a person assume you’re fine without interrogating you to decide how to feel about you.

It’s fucking exhausting, because I’m constantly on guard for signs that I’m being dehumanized, pushed gently against the bounds of the social contract bubble, seeing if maybe I might just do them a favor and fall out. And a lot of the signs are plausibly deniable, accidental or even invisible to the person doing it. But we have to be vigilant about it, like we’re protecting our brand or something. Protecting our worth. Because if we let it go, let it go, let it go, then suddenly we’re in a room with a bunch of people who were okay with dehumanizing me, and thought it was okay because I didn’t tell them it wasn’t. And now the next trans person that room of people encounters is starting at a disadvantage, because I told them it was okay to think of me as lesser.

Anyway, when you put trans-ness in quotes like it was a pretend word with no meaning, I got my hackles up for a second because I wanted to point out this way you’re delegitimizing my identity. But like, I also gotta balance that with being chill enough to make good on my promise not to let it get to me. So I edited it out. Eventually I decided that you didn’t do that maliciously. But I bring it up now as a sort of blanket defense against any effects that could have on someone’s opinion of my identity.
Click to expand...
Understood. Yeah, totally didn't mean the quotes maliciously, more that I am not used to using the word and was referencing your use of it in my response (but I can see how that could be taken wrong, so I've removed the quotes).

I absolutely agree that all should have equal moral rights as well.
 
Last edited:
The right is slowly working to remove a subset of human beings from existence.
 
crandc said:
Guns are designed and intended to kill. How does that compare to being gay or trans?
Click to expand...

I think he is saying he believes everyone should be able to be who they want as long as it doesn't hurt others. Being Gay/Trans etc doesn't hurt others so let people be.

He is likewise saying He doesn't care if people have guns as long as they aren't hurting people, but they are and so it's not ok.

Not, the best two things to compare but I don't think he meant ill intent.
 
Chris Craig said:
The right is slowly working to remove a subset of human beings from existence.
Click to expand...

And a good chunk of people will look away and let it happen. Allies are a lot thinner on the ground if they get targeted for helping us (see criminalizing parents of trans kids, taking trans kids away from cis parents, and cis kids away from trans parents).
 
THE HCP said:
Sorry to interrupt, but these are my exact feeling about guns.
Click to expand...
Mine too! If you have a history of hurting people you shouldn't have access to guns, and anybody who helps people like this access guns should also lose their right to own guns.

Happy to discuss this further in the cold dead hands thread
 
Phatguysrule said:
Mine too! If you have a history of hurting people you shouldn't have access to guns, and anybody who helps people like this access guns should also lose their right to own guns.
Click to expand...

“Bad people don’t deserve [some thing]” is really great until we have to determine who gets to make the decision about who is good or bad.
 
Everything Beagle said:
“Bad people don’t deserve [some thing]” is really great until we have to determine who gets to make the decision about who is good or bad.
Click to expand...
If someone has a habit of hurting innocent people they are a bad person.

It's as complicated as we make it, IMO.
 
Everything Beagle said:
And a good chunk of people will look away and let it happen. Allies are a lot thinner on the ground if they get targeted for helping us (see criminalizing parents of trans kids, taking trans kids away from cis parents, and cis kids away from trans parents).
Click to expand...

True. I for one will never look away. I'm loud (many here can attest to that) and I always will be about my support for the LGBTQ community. You have to stand for what is right, no matter what.
 
Phatguysrule said:
If someone has a habit of hurting innocent people they are a bad person.

It's as complicated as we make it, IMO.
Click to expand...

even something as innocuous and seemingly airtight simple as this can be used against minority groups to prevent them from owning guns. Trans people are already being called predators for existing in public. They hurt the innocent children. They hurt themselves by being “mentally ill” or whatever. The reason is always bullshit but the result is the same: just that easily and perfectly within the rule, firearms are denied to trans people, or queer people in general. And now any trans person with a gun is a criminal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top