I'm done with Isiah

[Knicks Analyst]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I think the problem goes back to the Nazr trade, David Lee + next years 30th pick in my opinion won't be worth Nazr.</div>
You only look at stats, man.
Nazr was awful here in New York.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Knick Fans, did Kurt Thomas log a lot of minutes at center? And how did he fare defensively against an Eddy Curry, Brendan Haywood, Igauskaus, etc.</div>
He played some center, and he was ok.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Q rich averaged 15 ppg this year, and 17 ppg the year before and he is still young, which is why I believe that the Kurt Thomas trade was benefitial, not to mention the acquired the 21st pick.</div>
Wow, 5 more PPG. Too bad we lose a top-flite defensive PF who averaged 10.4 RPG and had 32 double-double's last year.

Well, at least we have an offense-driven swingman who really isn't much of a defender at all. We really needed that.

Purple Fever:
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Can a Knick fan please explain to me the logic behind trading for Q and losing the only respectable defender on your team (Ariza is a good defender too).</div>
No. There's no real logic. Some use the excuse "he's younger". But really, it's just an idiotic trade.
You're right, Fever. This was a very stupid trade and I really dislike it.
Even though I love Nate.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Purple Fever:</div><div class="quote_post">Q is not a star player. He's a role player.
Kurt was the only guy who was able to play centre for this team. If Frye struggles in the beggining, Herb (Or whomever they get) will be forced to put Sweetney at the 5, which is not good.</div>
Kurt was also 33-years-old, and his huge contract lasts until the 2007-2008 season. At his age and with that contract, if we waited any longer, his value would be decreasing. We got the most value we could get from him. He also didn't fit the direction this team was looking to go in - younger, faster, and more athletic.

I have faith in Channing Frye and I do believe that he will succeed at the center, but we are also trying to get a center here in the off season as well so you can't count that out. You might see Jackie Butler logging ten minutes a game next year ao don't rule him out either.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

^ The age argument.
It's ok, really. It's not a really awful argument, it makes perfect sense to some, I'm sure.
Doesn't cut it for me though.

It's really a matter of what Isiah can do with his trading pieces, then we can come to a solid conclusion. It's impossible to anticipate Isiah's next move from here.

 

[Waneko]

Josean is right. The Knicks made a lousy choice in Frye. Why? Because it happened to be the safe pick to make. The Knicks, who are not going to contend for the next couple of years had the luxury of taking a chance on a project, like Bynum. Not that he is the next coming of Shaq, but if it works out, he'd be ready around the same time the Knicks get some cap relief when they might really get a chance to get better.

So now the Knicks end up with their 7th power forward. All the knuckleheads that think Frye can play center are wrong. They may make him try, but when someone not so great, like Jason Collins, starts looking like Shaq when playing against Frye, that's when Isiah will realize that you shouldn't pick your players just because you "connect" with them. Yes, since he and Frye hit it off when the Knicks worked him out, that seemed to seal his deal. More evidence is that Isiah is willing to keep Stephon around even though Stephon, with all his individual talent, will never make his team better.

Until this draft I liked that Isiah has a long range plan for the team, but now I'm thinking that maybe he's not the man for the job. You can only depend on your gut feeling so much, and he relys on it too much.

 

[j0se]

Nazr was accually great in his first half of play for the Knicks, he did all our dirty work, but for some reason, later on he was just terrible offensively, and looked sloppy on D

 

[Henacy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">on the Suns, Q was a role player, on the Knicks, he'll be a very good starter</div>


Honestly, this statement right here sums up why Richardson isnt good for the Knicks because on the Knicks a guy like Richardsons role becomes expanded
which isnt a good thing. The Knicks now get the Q Richardson of the Clippers not the Richardson of the Suns, which maybe could benefit. But now they get a guy who will try to be a creator instead of a finisher in the open court and a stand still jumpershoot in the half-court like in Pheonix. The Knicks will get a guy who thinks he can be successful at creating his own shot. And that is when you have the poor shot selection and turnovers of Q-Rich come into play, which is going to be a Knicks killer. We seen what makes Richardson successful in a team goal last year with the Suns but with the Knicks that type of role will not be the same. And somewhere along the lines the team's goals will be lost. I think coupling Marbury, Richardson and Crawford together will ultimately hurt the development of the Knicks young bigs like Sweetny & Frye because they wont get the proper touches needed to develope playing alongside that type of shot selection out on the perimeter.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly, this statement right here sums up why Richardson isnt good for the Knicks because on the Knicks a guy like Richardsons role becomes expanded which isnt a good thing. The Knicks now get the Q Richardson of the Clippers not the Richardson of the Suns, which maybe could benefit. But now they get a guy who will try to be a creator instead of a finisher in the open court and a stand still jumpershoot in the half-court like in Pheonix. The Knicks will get a guy who thinks he can be successful at creating his own shot. And that is when you have the poor shot selection and turnovers of Q-Rich come into play, which is going to be a Knicks killer. We seen what makes Richardson successful in a team goal last year with the Suns but with the Knicks that type of role will not be the same. And somewhere along the lines the team's goals will be lost. I think coupling Marbury, Richardson and Crawford together will ultimately hurt the development of the Knicks young bigs like Sweetny & Frye because they wont get the proper touches needed to develope playing alongside that type of shot selection out on the perimeter.</div>
No, in Phoenix, his job was to stand by the 3-point line and just shoot treys in transition. He even said ?Finally, I can do my thing once again.? ?At first, I was surprised by the trade -- but now I can?t wait to go back to the style I love to play. I love to go down to the low post, use my power, use my versatility. In Phoenix, I was basically relegated to standing on the three-point line. That?s really not my style of basketball. I am much more than that. I have a lot more to offer than just stand there and shoot. Even though we were a winning team, it was extremely frustrating.? Marbury is a good passer and can find perimeter threats such as Q and Crawford. With Lee and Frye and Sweetney (if he?s still around), the perimeter will be much more effective because of their post up game.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">Nazr was accually great in his first half of play for the Knicks, he did all our dirty work, but for some reason, later on he was just terrible offensively, and looked sloppy on D</div>
He was "sloppy" on defense even at the start.
It just got more and more obvious later in the year.
He was never great for us - his stats lied.

 

[j0se]

I'm cofident in Q-Rich, he's a good rebounder, solid defender, good hustle player, and he's just extremely talented on offense, even tough he's inconistant.


Q is going to drive alot more, create his shot, I'm really high on him, and hopefully he can average 17 - 19 ppg 5 - 6 rebs and hopefuly a FG % of 42%

lol, I remember when I had my first basketball game, and Q was a rookie, and I would always have him on my roster. Hopefully he'll have his best season here, because we're gonna need a lot of help from him, since he's the 2nd best player on this team now.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I think the problem goes back to the Nazr trade, David Lee + next years 30th pick in my opinion won't be worth Nazr.</div>
Whoa, I almost let this one slip by me. How can you say David Lee and next years? first round pick (it?s not guaranteed to be a 30th either), will not be worth Nazr Mohammed? When Nazr was with the Knicks last season, he improved dramatically, but he was still amongst the lower level of centers in the league ? yes, that?s how bad he was. When he was with the Knicks, he wasn?t a great shot-blocker, low post scorer or defender. I used to be one of the Knick fans blinded by how much I thought he improved, however, there was little change in his game.

David Lee alone has the potential to exceed Mohammed?s mere 11/8 when he was with the Knicks. Although an inch shorter, he is much more athletic, much, more skilled, and plays with more heart and energy. On top of that, Lee has a very good work ethic and can work with Mark Aguirre. The first rounder next year we won?t know until June 2006, but I?m pretty sure he will be better than Nazr Mohammed and if not, I think he will be more useful.

 

[Henacy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">No, in Phoenix, his job was to stand by the 3-point line and just shoot treys in transition. He even said ?Finally, I can do my thing once again.? ?At first, I was surprised by the trade -- but now I can?t wait to go back to the style I love to play. I love to go down to the low post, use my power, use my versatility. In Phoenix, I was basically relegated to standing on the three-point line. That?s really not my style of basketball. I am much more than that. I have a lot more to offer than just stand there and shoot. Even though we were a winning team, it was extremely frustrating.? Marbury is a good passer and can find perimeter threats such as Q and Crawford. With Lee and Frye and Sweetney (if he?s still around), the perimeter will be much more effective because of their post up game.</div>

Exactly my point in Phoenix due to the system his role was limited. And that is what it should be..................He might say that he feels more comfortable doing things like going to the post and creating his own shot because his individual stats are going to look better. But my point is for a team's goal (ie winning games & making the playoffs), I think you want Richardson's role to be similar to that in Phoenix not Los Angles...He needs to be a finisher on the break and a guy who is regulated to the 3-pt line, not trying to be a creator, trying to create plays for himself and others.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">Exactly my point in Phoenix due to the system his role was limited. And that is what it should be..................He might say that he feels more comfortable doing things like going to the post and creating his own shot because his individual stats are going to look better. But my point is for a team's goal (ie winning games & making the playoffs), I think you want Richardson's role to be similar to that in Phoenix not Los Angles...He needs to be a finisher on the break and a guy who is regulated to the 3-pt line, not trying to be a creator, trying to create plays for himself and others.</div>
Sorry, I misread that, Henacy. And I see what you're saying, but I don?t think that Richardson should be regulated to the 3-point line. Finishing on the break is a must because the Knicks are going to be looking to run a lot this season, but there will be times where the Knicks won?t be able to run so in the half court sets, if he took higher percentage shots the Knicks will benefit much more.

 

[02civic]

The funny thing to me is that most of you guys were campaining for Nazr to the All-star team saying how good of a center he is becoming out here in the East. But now he's garbage? I dont know. I thought he was ok, not great but better than a 5th PF in Rose, + a 6th PF in Lee + next years 30th pick which will probably be yet another PF..lol.

Tribute - I have to say you're complaining about the Frye draft and then commenting how Isiah should of at least drafted Bynum or ???May???. lol.

 

[Skiptomylue11]

I read the same article about Nazr being an all-star center and that he didn't receive the respect he deserved. It seems some NY fans hate the guy now that they traded him.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The funny thing to me is that most of you guys were campaining for Nazr to the All-star team saying how good of a center he is becoming out here in the East. But now he's garbage? I dont know. I thought he was ok, not great but better than a 5th PF in Rose, + a 6th PF in Lee + next years 30th pick which will probably be yet another PF..lol.</div>
He was ok for a little while. For a few games, yeah he looked great. All in all he was awful.
You thought he was ok? Ok, please explain.

One last thing, didn't you say you weren't going to post here? Please, just leave us alone. We haven't done anything to your forum. Stop trying hard to sound smart by bringing up that short period in which we liked Nazr - because not long after he changed our minds.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I read the same article about Nazr being an all-star center and that he didn't receive the respect he deserved. It seems some NY fans hate the guy now that they traded him.</div>
Whoever wrote that article didn't watch the games closely enough. Nazr wasn't even close to all-star caliber.
Stats lie, and Mohhamed is a perfect example of that, we realized that soon after we liked him.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">The funny thing to me is that most of you guys were campaining for Nazr to the All-star team saying how good of a center he is becoming out here in the East. But now he's garbage? I dont know. I thought he was ok, not great but better than a 5th PF in Rose, + a 6th PF in Lee + next years 30th pick which will probably be yet another PF..lol.

Tribute - I have to say you're complaining about the Frye draft and then commenting how Isiah should of at least drafted Bynum or ???May???. lol.</div>

Nazr's competition in the East to be an All Star was the offensively challenged Ben Wallace and the defensively challenged Big Z. I never said he should be an All Star I simply said he deserves consideration. It's not like there's alot of great centers in the East(not alot of great centers in the NBA period actually) after Shaq. In the long run considering Sweetney and Ariza are the future of this team and also considering the Knicks arent going anywhere anytime soon yeah I think it was a great move trading him for those picks.

I dont like Fyre period. At the most he'll be a solid player and if I'm in the lottery I'm looking to draft a future All Star which is why I prefer Bynum. I question Fyre's toughness but I'm pretty confident that May will bang in the paint which is why I prefer him over Fyre as well(I actually wouldnt have drafted May but if I had to pick between May and Fyre I'd pick May).


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[ASUFan22]

Man, you guys just hate Nazr because you traded him. He was good for my fantasy team and I saw a lot of him in the playoffs. He is a good player.

 

[ASUFan22]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Nazr's competition in the East to be an All Star was the offensively challenged Ben Wallace and the defensively challenged Big Z. I never said he should be an All Star I simply said he deserves consideration. It's not like there's alot of great centers in the East(not alot of great centers in the NBA period actually) after Shaq. In the long run considering Sweetney and Ariza are the future of this team and also considering the Knicks arent going anywhere anytime soon yeah I think it was a great move trading him for those picks.

I dont like Fyre period. At the most he'll be a solid player and if I'm in the lottery I'm looking to draft a future All Star which is why I prefer Bynum. I question Fyre's toughness but I'm pretty confident that May will bang in the paint which is why I prefer him over Fyre as well(I actually wouldnt have drafted May but if I had to pick between May and Fyre I'd pick May).


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div>

Hey man. Frye is good. I saw a lot of him in Pac-10 play and in the NCAA tournament. I'm not saying that because I'm a Arizona fan, because I'm not. I'm an ASU fan so I saw him play...You will be happy with him, it was a good pick. Same with Nate.

Isiah shouldn't be fired for picking Frye. He should be fired for taking the big contracts of Hardaway(even though you don't have to deal with him anymore), Marbury, and Q off our hands. That helped us a lot, thanks.