I'm over the Travis Outlaw experiment

[Mediocre Man]

I guess we have our first serious nominee for scapegoat of the year. Get your hate on here Blazer fans!

Personally I'm happy he's on the club even though he had a bad (preseason) game. Though I've never been sold on him as the stud SF of the future, I'm even less sold on Martell. While I'd be fine with moving either (maybe packaged with another player or two) for an upgrade, that opportunity probably won't arise until the midseason trade deadline when some teams are imploding and looking for an overhaul. And of course there are other pathways that KP could utilize to fill upgrade the 3 spot next offseason. In the meantime, he's far and away the best candidate at the 3 so he's the guy. I'm actually pretty happy he's going to get starter minutes to show once and for all what he capable of.

btw, Batum looked pretty nice last night. Me likey

STOMP

Travis does one thing really well, and that is shoot the ball. I'm not saying he is a great shooter, just great at shooting a lot. IMO he is the one guy on this roster that doesn't seem to want to buy into the team first concept. Nice kid, and a decent player, but nothing more

 

[Magnum]

I'm all for moving travis in a consolidating deal. Has nothing to do with the last 2 games though.

I like prototype players. Guys that are very clearly a 3 in this case. Travis isn't that.

 

[STOMP]

Travis does one thing really well, and that is shoot the ball.

yet compared to Martell his stats are equal or better across the board. Dude gets to the line a lot more, more boards, more steals, more blocks... if shooting (and creating his shot from nada) is all that Travis does well, what does that say about MW?

STOMP

 

[Mediocre Man]

yet compared to Martell his stats are equal or better across the board. Dude gets to the line a lot more, more boards, more steals, more blocks... if shooting (and creating his shot from nada) is all that Travis does well, what does that say about MW?

STOMP

I think you'll see that I have never been a big supporter of either player. An NBA team needs players that can all do at least one thing really well that that particular team needs. In our case we don't need someone who can create a shot and score because we have a gazillion guys like that. Portland needs a player who can lock down a player from the other team, or force the other team to put one of their best defenders on him because he is a lights out 3 pnt threat. Neither Travis nor Martell can do those things

 

[mook]

Whenever I think about our long-term options at SF, I always think: The NBA champion will likely have to beat either Kobe Bryant or LeBron James or both. Does Outlaw help us do that? Nope. Does Webster? Nope.

Does Batum? Hmmmm. Maaaaaybe. He reminds me a little of guys like Mutombo or Dale Davis or Battier or Rodman. He seems to have no delusion that he's going to be a superstar on offense. He knows his NBA career is going to be a success or a failure based on his ability to defend, so he's totally committed to it.

With Outlaw and Webster, we've been hoping those square pegs decide to fit themselves into the round hole of defense. Batum is already a round peg (albeit still pretty raw).

I'd really like to see McMillan give Batum a start in pre-season, particularly this next game. Nate can shrug and say, "It's preseason. What the heck." and it won't really be that big of a deal. Early in preseason coaches often jumble around their lineups to just see how things work--it's a luxury you won't get for the rest of the year.

As for Outlaw, I think he's a good player in a bad fit. We're probably going to have to move him this year.

 

[gatorpops]

The thing that irritates me most about Outlaw is he never seems to come into the season ready. Last year he came in out of shape. This year he seems more in shape but it takes him a while to get the rust off most seasons.

Could be just not playing enough ball in the off season. Don't really know, but with his one skill of shooting it really shows early. He is not a very good man on defender either. Has slow feet. Does not rebound well for his size and hops? He certainly has to get that shot going or he has nothing much to offer.

g

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

yet compared to Martell his stats are equal or better across the board. Dude gets to the line a lot more, more boards, more steals, more blocks... if shooting (and creating his shot from nada) is all that Travis does well, what does that say about MW?

Martell got his stats primarily playing with the first team - in the shadow of Roy, LMA, etc. Travis got his stats often with the second team where he was the primary guy.

That being the case, if Martell playing second fiddle can get the same stats as Travis often playing first fiddle, I'll take Martell. It is also not just about stats, it is the ability to fit in with the team, and, I believe, Martell does that much better than Travis.

Gramps...

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

Whenever I think about our long-term options at SF, I always think: The NBA champion will likely have to beat either Kobe Bryant or LeBron James or both. Does Outlaw help us do that? Nope. Does Webster? Nope.

Does Batum? Hmmmm. Maaaaaybe. He reminds me a little of guys like Mutombo or Dale Davis or Battier or Rodman. He seems to have no delusion that he's going to be a superstar on offense. He knows his NBA career is going to be a success or a failure based on his ability to defend, so he's totally committed to it.

I agree that, what little I've seen of Batum, I've been fairly happy. I think that he has the best chance of being the guy who can really help out the SF position. I don't know how quickly he'll develop but he has shown he has the tools and ability, just needs some polishing.

Webster has a better offensive game but as you and others have stated, that is not necessarily what the team needs from that position. Once Batum gets more polished, I wouldn't mind seeing Batum start with Martell backing him. I think Martell would do very well as a key player on the second team.

Gramps...

 

[andalusian]

Martell got his stats primarily playing with the first team - in the shadow of Roy, LMA, etc. Travis got his stats often with the second team where he was the primary guy.

That being the case, if Martell playing second fiddle can get the same stats as Travis often playing first fiddle, I'll take Martell. It is also not just about stats, it is the ability to fit in with the team, and, I believe, Martell does that much better than Travis.

Gramps...

Martell is a better player in the first unit than Travis - but he most certainly was not nearly as effective as Outlaw was on the 2nd unit. Unfortunately, Travis's effectiveness will decline in the 1st unit - where I am not certain Webster will be better in the 2nd unit (maybe this year with Rudy and Sergio - definitely not last year when we needed a go-to scorer in this unit - something Webster is able to do for a quarter or two during the year, but not more than that).

I think that at this point there could be something to be said about trying Batum with the starters - sure he does not hit the open Jumpers - but he is an upgrade on defense - a combination of Oden/Aldridge/Batum with their long arms will make defense much better in the 1st unit.

Travis will work better in the 2nd unit with Rudy and Sergio or Rudy and Bayless pushing the ball.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

Martell is a better player in the first unit than Travis - but he most certainly was not nearly as effective as Outlaw was on the 2nd unit...Travis will work better in the 2nd unit with Rudy and Sergio or Rudy and Bayless pushing the ball.

Martell was not nearly as effective as Travis on the second unit last year when we needed someone who wasn't afraid to shoot. However, this year, with Rudy, Sergio and/or Bayless, I don't think we need someone as offensively minded as Travis, we need someone who is more team oriented. Martell has already shown he works very well with Rudy and I think he would be a very effective player on the second team this year. Travis, not so much IMO.

Gramps...

 

[alex42083]

Martell was not nearly as effective as Travis on the second unit last year when we needed someone who wasn't afraid to shoot. However, this year, with Rudy, Sergio and/or Bayless, I don't think we need someone as offensively minded as Travis, we need someone who is more team oriented. Martell has already shown he works very well with Rudy and I think he would be a very effective player on the second team this year. Travis, not so much IMO.

Gramps...

Yeah, I think Martell looked great with Rudy and Sergio. When Martell knows he'll get the ball if he moves around, he'll do it.
If he's with guys who like to pound the ball, he won't and will just stand in the corner. He looked like he especially had a good connection with Rudy because Rudy knows Martell can shoot the 3, he can back cut to the hoop, and he can throw him the alley-oop if needed.
Those two need to be on the floor together, it's just a shame both are now hurt.

 

[gambitnut]

Travis does one thing really well, and that is shoot the ball. I'm not saying he is a great shooter, just great at shooting a lot. IMO he is the one guy on this roster that doesn't seem to want to buy into the team first concept. Nice kid, and a decent player, but nothing more

Is Outlaw the new Jack, a player who does one thing well, but not as well as other players, and does other things poorly?

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

Is Outlaw the new Jack, a player who does one thing well, but not as well as other players, and does other things poorly?

Yes and No. The one thing Travis does well is shoot. The one thing Jack did well was turn the ball over. In such a case, I think I'd rather have Travis than Jack.

Gramps...

 

[Drttimmy]

This thread from the same folks overreacting when Oden had a bad scrimmage.

That said, Outlaw has disappointed me recently, and it wasn't on the court and it was in real life.

Who overreacted? I'm not looking to call you out, but rather want a fair portrayal. People said he is out-of-shape and possibly a long way from recovering the athleticism he had pre-injury and resembling the player he was before. This isn't true? I don't think I read anyone saying he is a bust or overrated--which would be overreacting. I might have overlooked some posts though.

I agree Outlaw is disappointing. What disappoints me, is it doesn't appear he's improved at all from last year. Every year of his career, he's made strides over the previous. Sometimes baby..sometimes significant. I see nothing new to his game and that's discouraging.

 

[STOMP]

Martell got his stats primarily playing with the first team - in the shadow of Roy, LMA, etc. Travis got his stats often with the second team where he was the primary guy.

Yeah it must be tough to stand in the corner waiting for another wide open look... much tougher then having to create your own look off the dribble.[/sarcasm] If what you're arguing holds water, then TO's per minute stats in the things I listed should take a big hit now that he'll be hindered playing with the starters. Here's guessing his stats won't dip but we shall see.

That being the case, if Martell playing second fiddle can get the same stats as Travis often playing first fiddle, I'll take Martell.

but Martell did not get the same stats as Travis did last year. He matched him in some categories, but he was well behind in quite a few others that I already listed. You can like MW more despite this, but I'm relaying facts.

STOMP

 

[Shooter]

One of the most athletic guys in the league, and all he does is dribble-step and shoot a fadeaway. Can't pass, can't drive, unbelievably not that good in the open court.

You're right. It's very odd. The guy has been in the league for what, five years? He's finally developed a good jump shot, but in all the other aspects of the game he's woefully deficient. Although, to be fair, he did "drive" to the hoop for that winning shot against Memphis last year that started the 13-game winning streak . . .