Im starting to think Aldridge could care less

[BlazerCaravan]

Fact is, Aldridge has never had a good PER, he's always been overhyped by this fanbase.

So a 19 PER is not good. Good to know. He may have been overhyped, but he is still above average and better than this season would imply.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

lol. So I bring facts and you resort to telling me that I'm on your ignore list?

okie dokie artichokie.

Some people have a hard time dealing with reality. I always get a kick out of it when people feel the need to update the board with who's on their ignore list.

Yeah it was a dick move on my part. Sorry.

 

[MickZagger]

So a 19 PER is not good. Good to know. He may have been overhyped, but he is still above average and better than this season would imply.

He has a career PER of 18.3 which isn't horrible, but certainly isn't great. Considering the hype train around here about the guy, I'd figure that number to go up as he hits his prime. Yet, they have gone down despite being called upon to produce more. And every year he tells Quick he feels he's been slighted for an All-Star game.

I can think of 15 or more PF's I'd rather have over LMA.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

He has a career PER of 18.3 which isn't horrible, but certainly isn't great.

You said "Aldridge has never had a good PER" 19.1 is a good PER. Don't twist your assertions around just because I countered your opinion with fact.

He benefited greatly from a healthy Roy feeding him open shots, and without that (much of last year and all of this year), the weaknesses in his game have definitely been exposed. All of this I think we can agree on, yes?

The thing is, I've always seen LMA as 3rd option in an offense where Option 2 has never really played. He gets 2nd Option touches because who else in our lineup would get them? In that respect, he's always been out of position, so to speak. I'd say he's made the best of it he could, given the type of player he is. And while my list of PF's I'd rather have is shorter than yours (probably around 10), I'm not out there saying he's perfect. In fact, I don't think anyone here really has been overhyping him, at least not int the last 365 days or so.

 

[LittleAlex]

Duncan has a higher turnover rate. While he also has a higher usage rate, the differences in the two seem at worst commensurate. If doubling Aldridge led to a good chance for a turnover, and that's why teams double him a lot, I think you'd see a much higher turnover rate from LMA.

Beyond stats, I disagree from an observational standpoint too. Aldridge is no Chris Webber, but he's a decent passer. The fact is, passing out of a double team isn't especially tricky unless you are trying to be the one to get an assist. A double of Aldridge leads to a compromised defense...an easy pass out to the perimeter, like to Miller, gives Miller a superior chance of beating the out of position defense.

I don't recall saying teams double LA a lot.

They don't because he isn't in the post a whole lot.
No reason to double a guy who just drifted out to 22 feet from the basket.

Really though, it isn't even close to fair to use Duncan as a yardstick to measure LA's impact.
Best Power Forward of All Time compared to 18th Best Power Forward of 2010 isn't all that revealing.

In his defense, LaMarcus has gotten better at offensive rebounding this year and does appear to no longer be allergic to the post.
His help defense has also improved.

But none of these things are enough to make LaMarcus the main focus of the offense.
Which is too bad since Portland really, really needs a player to be that guy now that Roy is probably never going to be able to fill that role again.

 

[blazerboy30]

At 16.6 he has the 18th best PER among starting PF's. I'd say thats below average production.

Then me thinks you don't know what "average" means.

 

[MickZagger]

Then me thinks you don't know what "average" means.

Me thinks I do. 18th best is just below average.

 

[blazerboy30]

But he doesn't pass well out of it, he doesn't read them particularly well ... a double team is usually a pretty high percentage play for an opponent's defense because he has so much trouble making them pay for doing it.

If it is a higher percentage play for the defense to double team him than to NOT double team him, then he commands a double team. You're really stretching on this one.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Then me thinks you don't know what "average" means.

I can see what he means: below average starting PF quality... 15th or better PER among starting PF's would make him above average. Now, I don't agree with it overall (right now? Yeah, he's pressing and not doing great), because he can be better than he's playing now.

 

[blazerboy30]

Me thinks I do. 18th best is just below average.

Really? How many PFs are there in the league?

 

[blazerboy30]

I can see what he means: below average starting PF quality... 15th or better PER among starting PF's would make him above average.

If he means "compared to starting PFs" then he should learn how to communicate.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Really? How many PFs are there in the league?

30 that start. Being 18th among them means you're below average among starting PF's, statistically. Not among *all* PF's, just among starting PF's. That's his distinction.

Mick, care to link the list, so we can see who's above and below him?

 

[Minstrel]

I don't recall saying teams double LA a lot.

It's a reasonable consequence of what you were suggesting. If doubling him meant a good chance at a turnover, why wouldn't defenses double him a lot? Don't defenses want turnovers?

I was probably also conflating your argument with nik's, who did stipulate that Aldridge gets plenty of double-teams. My mistake.

Really though, it isn't even close to fair to use Duncan as a yardstick to measure LA's impact.
Best Power Forward of All Time compared to 18th Best Power Forward of 2010 isn't all that revealing.

My mention of Duncan was to point out that Aldridge was no Duncan. You continued the Duncan comparisons by saying Aldridge is likely to turn the ball over whereas Duncan is not, but Duncan's turnover rate is really not better relative to usage. Of course Aldridge isn't anywhere in the class of Arguably The Best Power Forward Ever. That was never remotely what I was saying. But comparing their turnover rates is still perfectly valid, especially if one takes into account usage rates.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

If he means "compared to starting PFs" then he should learn how to communicate.

Dude, I really hate being put in a position of saying MickZagger is right, but he said it right in his post: 18th among starting PFs.

 

[Nikolokolus]

If it is a higher percentage play for the defense to double team him than to NOT double team him, then he commands a double team. You're really stretching on this one.

My whole point is that just receiving a double team isn't all that valuable unless the player knows how to counter it. LMA really struggles to do just that. If he was burning defenses with his passing or because he had great footwork on the block then it would be a good thing. As it is now, him getting doubled tends to lead to a less than good outcome.

Ya dig?

 

[blazerboy30]

30 that start. Being 18th among them means you're below average among starting PF's, statistically. Not among *all* PF's, just among starting PF's. That's his distinction.

Yeah, I understand that is what he is trying to, but failing to, communicate. That is, however, different than the original post that hasoos made... which I started responding to.

 

[MickZagger]

You said "Aldridge has never had a good PER" 19.1 is a good PER. Don't twist your assertions around just because I countered your opinion with fact.

He benefited greatly from a healthy Roy feeding him open shots, and without that (much of last year and all of this year), the weaknesses in his game have definitely been exposed. All of this I think we can agree on, yes?

The thing is, I've always seen LMA as 3rd option in an offense where Option 2 has never really played. He gets 2nd Option touches because who else in our lineup would get them? In that respect, he's always been out of position, so to speak. I'd say he's made the best of it he could, given the type of player he is. And while my list of PF's I'd rather have is shorter than yours (probably around 10), I'm not out there saying he's perfect. In fact, I don't think anyone here really has been overhyping him, at least not int the last 365 days or so.

I'm not twisting any assertions around. A PER of 19.1 isn't a great PER by any means. A PER of 20 has always been my measuring stick of a good player.

He always gets a pass from this fanbase, when really, he shouldn't. I expect a little more of a player with his abilities and frame, yet every year he shows us he's soft and doesn't add anything to his game. I'm not sure if there's anything in sports that bothers me more than a player that plays soft. We picked him with the 2nd pick, my expectations are a little higher than to have his production gradually go down every year. A PER in the 16's in his 5th year in the league? Thats garbage.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

[/B]

Yeah, I understand that is what he is trying to, but failing to, communicate. That is, however, different than the original post that hasoos made... which I started responding to.

Gotcha.

 

[MickZagger]

Really? How many PFs are there in the league?

Are you that dense? I originally said, among STARTING PF's.

 

[blazerboy30]

My whole point is that just receiving a double team isn't all that valuable unless the player knows how to counter it. LMA really struggles to do just that. If he was burning defenses with his passing or because he had great footwork on the block then it would be a good thing. As it is now, him getting doubled tends to lead to a less than good outcome.

Ya dig?

It still doesn't make sense. Team's double team him because the chances of something good happening for the defense are better than if they single coverage him. I really don't see why you want to argue this. If the defense didn't think it was more beneficial to double him instead of single coverage him, they would be insane to keep doing so.

Taking that further, teams don't double team Joel. Joel doesn't burn defenses with his passing or footwork. They don't double him because he can't beat them in single coverage either.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I'm not twisting any assertions around. A PER of 19.1 isn't a great PER by any means. A PER of 20 has always been my measuring stick of a good player.

He always gets a pass from this fanbase, when really, he shouldn't. I expect a little more of a player with his abilities and frame, yet every year he shows us he's soft and doesn't add anything to his game. I'm not sure if there's anything in sports that bothers me more than a player that plays soft. We picked him with the 2nd pick, my expectations are a little higher than to have his production gradually go down every year. A PER in the 16's in his 5th year in the league? Thats garbage.

So it's going to be this sort of talk from you until he gets traded, yeah?

 

[blazerboy30]

Are you that dense? I originally said, among STARTING PF's.

Show me where hasoos said "starting PFs" in the post that I originally replied to. Otherwise, you're looking pretty silly by trying to change the discussion.

 

[MickZagger]

[/B]

Yeah, I understand that is what he is trying to, but failing to, communicate. That is, however, different than the original post that hasoos made... which I started responding to.

I'm not having any problems communicating it. Read post #19.

At 16.6 he has the 18th best PER among starting PF's. I'd say thats below average production.

 

[blazerboy30]

I'm not having any problems communicating it. Read post #19.

Thanks for responding to something that wasn't being discussed.

 

[MickZagger]

So it's going to be this sort of talk from you until he gets traded, yeah?

Unless he proves me wrong. Yup.

I'm not just a person who bitches and complains about players on my favorite team. But, something about Aldridge really gets to me. I want a real PF. We haven't had one in a while. I had to sit through Frye and Aldridge, now we got Cunningham and Aldridge. Its sad really.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Unless he proves me wrong. Yup.

I'm not just a person who bitches and complains about players on my favorite team.

I'm sure there's much more to you, deep down... way, way deep down.

 

[MickZagger]

Thanks for responding to something that wasn't being discussed.

Uh, you hit the reply button to that very post and said,

Then me thinks you don't know what "average" means.

You were obviously responding to my post in which I said 18th among starters. Your whole premise in this argument is a game of semantics anyway.

 

[blazerboy30]

Uh, you hit the reply button to that very post and said,



You were obviously responding to my post in which I said 18th among starters. Your whole premise in this argument is a game of semantics anyway.

No, it really is far from semantics. No, LMA isn't the best power forward in the game. But for people to come on here and claim he is an "average" PF or "below average" or even "just above average" is just stupid. Same with trying to make the argument that he doesn't demand double teams, even though almost every team throws a double at him almost every touch.

If people want to argue that LMA is about average for a STARTING PF, fine. But he is far better than an average player or average PF.

 

[WillG]

I didn't see the original post and don't really give a crap what it says, but I am very relieved to know that apparently LaMarcus Aldridge could care less. That's nice to know, as I'd be really concerned to learn he couldn't care less.

BNM

+1 Literacy is cool. . .

 

[MickZagger]

No, it really is far from semantics. No, LMA isn't the best power forward in the game. But for people to come on here and claim he is an "average" PF or "below average" or even "just above average" is just stupid. Same with trying to make the argument that he doesn't demand double teams, even though almost every team throws a double at him almost every touch.

If people want to argue that LMA is about average for a STARTING PF, fine. But he is far better than an average player or average PF.

Cool. But, slightly below average as a starter was my premise from the beginning.