Interesting PHOENIX trade RUMOR

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I want Nash BAD. I'd be willing to give them many players that fit their half-court approach, and I like Barbosa a lot but there isn't room for him here w/Nash. Diaw is a great player, very unselfish (to a fault), good defender, and incredible passer. Our court IQ would triple with this trade...

Bayless/Frye/Outlaw/Blake for Nash/Diaw

We give up some quantity, potential, and quality, but get back a lot more quality and become a much smarter and more efficient basketball team. Roy would need to learn to play off the ball more (which he already does need to with LMA and Oden) and we become older, but the remaining blazers are better for the move with the experience they will gain and easy points they will score because of Nash (who extends his career with less minutes and more capable guys around him).

For Phoenix they grab two local good players in Bayless and Frye who fit in half-court offense well (especially Frye) and a scorer in Outlaw. They go mostly 1/2 court with the only real exception being Barbosa.

Nash/Sergio
Roy/Rudy
Webster/Diaw/Batum
Aldridge/Diaw/Diogu/Randolph
Oden/Pryzbilla
 
Yikes! No Suns please! None of those players play defense. Just look at how they are struggling to adjust to Porter's "balanced" system. Our defense will just get worse. Now I'm getting flashbacks of the Adelman days with the matador defense. Right now we just need to stay with the current roster and play guys who are willing to play hardnosed defense. Hell why not just give Batum more minutes. That kid has the defensive mindset. You could even go with the big backcourt by sliding Batum back there with Roy, where you solve the backcourt defensive problem and on the offensive end you ball is mostly in Roy's hands where we get good results. Outlaw/Webster are small forwards who are willing to play defense. We have all we need we just need a defensive mindset. Just say no to the Suns please.
 
Bayless/Frye/Outlaw/Blake for Nash/Diaw
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Are you serious? Just to have the Phoenix GM laugh at you?

As a Portland fan, i'd do this.. it would help consolidating, but i'd rather trade Sergio than Blake... and i don't like Diaw, and we'd have to add Raef, no? Nash and Diaw have big contracts don't they?
 
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longshort said:
Yikes! No Suns please! None of those players play defense. Just look at how they are struggling to adjust to Porter's "balanced" system. Our defense will just get worse. Now I'm getting flashbacks of the Adelman days with the matador defense. Right now we just need to stay with the current roster and play guys who are willing to play hardnosed defense. Hell why not just give Batum more minutes. That kid has the defensive mindset. You could even go with the big backcourt by sliding Batum back there with Roy, where you solve the backcourt defensive problem and on the offensive end you ball is mostly in Roy's hands where we get good results. Outlaw/Webster are small forwards who are willing to play defense. We have all we need we just need a defensive mindset. Just say no to the Suns please.
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oh yeah those terrible Adelman teams that went to the finals. Give me a break dude, we'd have plenty of defense between Roy, Batum, Webster, Aldridge, and Oden. And Diaw plays twice as good of defense as Outlaw or Frye right now. You have noticed it I see but Blake is a downright shitty defender. The offense we gain is worth three times the puny amount of defence we lose (which is debatable).

I bet you would love to root for a team of:
Eric Snow/Bruce Bowen/Shane Battier/Ron Artest/Desagana Dip

lets see those guys do what Adelman's teams did in your nightmare flashbacks!

Porter's unit has no damn game-plan that's why his players are frustrated. they just dump it to Shaq constantly and don't have the cutters to make it pay off.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Very odd. The Barbosa rumor first surfaced *before* we signed Rudy/drafted Bayless. Back then, it made a certain amount of sense as the idea was basically to upgrade from Jack to Barbosa. Now? I just don't see it.
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it still makes sense for PHX... I don't see any upside for Portland though

STOMP
 
MrJayremmie said:
Are you serious? Just to have the Phoenix GM laugh at you?

As a Portland fan, i'd do this.. it would help consolidating, but i'd rather trade Sergio than Blake... and i don't like Diaw, and we'd have to add Raef, no? Nash and Diaw have big contracts don't they?
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Kerr is their GM, he's going half-court, and if his stars are still pissed in a month or too, he's gonna be scrambling to do something. I think VC is a perfect fit their personally (half-court slasher/scorer) but Kerr isn't going to go back to Dantoni basketball, it would make him look like a fool imitating something he destroyed. He's going to be a tough half-court team, and Nash won't like it.

Maybe sending:
Raef/Outlaw/Bayless to NJ
Carter/Blake/Raef/Frye to Phoenix
Nash/Diaw to Portland

would look better to them.

NJ cuts salary big-time (and they're not going anwhere), PHO goes half-court bigtime (and has a better chance of making noise this year), and we get a much higher basketball IQ to help our guys develop.
 
shamelessblazer said:
Maybe sending:
Raef/Outlaw/Bayless to NJ
Carter/Blake/Raef/Frye to Phoenix
Nash/Diaw to Portland
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What are league rules on cutting a player in half with a table saw? That's got to be against the collective bargaining agreement.
 
shamelessblazer said:
oh yeah those terrible Adelman teams that went to the finals. Give me a break dude, we'd have plenty of defense between Roy, Batum, Webster, Aldridge, and Oden. And Diaw plays twice as good of defense as Outlaw or Frye right now. You have noticed it I see but Blake is a downright shitty defender. The offense we gain is worth three times the puny amount of defence we lose (which is debatable).

I bet you would love to root for a team of:
Eric Snow/Bruce Bowen/Shane Battier/Ron Artest/Desagana Dip

lets see those guys do what Adelman's teams did in your nightmare flashbacks!

Porter's unit has no damn game-plan that's why his players are frustrated. they just dump it to Shaq constantly and don't have the cutters to make it pay off.
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Adelman's Blazers were not terrible. I'm sorry to make it sound they were, but had they played defense we would have three titles. If you are just happy to getting to the dance fine, but winning first place is always better. I agree with you on the Blake and Frye part (Travis is improving on defense though), that is why I wish minutes go to those guys who are willing to play defense. Right now we have a lot of offensive firepower and there is no need to add more with those Suns players (except Diaw who seems to very passive offensively). Once Oden gets into the groove, perhaps will have that inside muscle on the offensive end.

Anyhow, Porter does have a game plan and you are right it is just dumping it into Shaq. But that game plan will not work because you have players so used to playing the D'Antoni style. Oh yeah, the Suns are still terrible defensively.


Oh yeah, going to the Finals was great, but winning it would have been nice.
 
longshort said:
Right now we have a lot of offensive firepower and there is no need to add more with those Suns players (except Diaw who seems to very passive offensively). Once Oden gets into the groove, perhaps will have that inside muscle on the offensive end.
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Right now we have a lot of unused and unrecognized potential offensive firepower, because Steve Blake and Brandon Roy both suck at making entry passes, rewarding cutters, pushing the break, and setting picks.
 
shamelessblazer said:
Right now we have a lot of unused and unrecognized potential offensive firepower, because Steve Blake and Brandon Roy both suck at making entry passes, rewarding cutters, pushing the break, and setting picks.
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We have been, since the start of this year, either #1 or #2 in offensive efficiency in the entire league (we are currently #2).

This statement just does not recognize the fact that offense is NOT our problem.
 
andalusian said:
We have been, since the start of this year, either #1 or #2 in offensive efficiency in the entire league (we are currently #2).

This statement just does not recognize the fact that offense is NOT our problem.
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do you watch the games? Why are we always so terrible at the start at the beginning of the game and the start of the third when Blake/Roy is our backcourt?
 
shamelessblazer said:
Right now we have a lot of unused and unrecognized potential offensive firepower, because Steve Blake and Brandon Roy both suck at making entry passes, rewarding cutters, pushing the break, and setting picks.
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You hit the nail on the head! We will never be a fast breaking team like everyone wishes we could, which is a good because other than the Sergio and Rudy we just don't have that type of personnel. However, once everyone consistently play solid hard-nosed defense and our bigs dominate in rebounds category area we could have selective fastbreak opportunities similar to what the Spurs had we they were at the top of their game. I agree with you on the entry passes to the bigs, but that will also come in time. Oden needs to get in condition and Aldridge needs to recognize cutters. In terms of rewarding cutters, Oden is good at recognizing cutters (similar to what Walton had).
 
shamelessblazer said:
Right now we have a lot of unused and unrecognized potential offensive firepower, because Steve Blake and Brandon Roy both suck at making entry passes, rewarding cutters, pushing the break, and setting picks.
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No.


Roy is the only player worth a damn at entry passes.

We don't reward cutters because very few Blazers actually cut to the hoop. When it happens, it takes everyone by supprise. In fact, you will see players fake a cut to the basket, then fade to the corner. This happens to fake out their own teamates. I have seen at least 4 turnovers caused by just this behavor.

We are not, and never haven been a fast break team. We are not going to be in the future, either. Frankly, it has gotten slightly better this season, but I am pretty sure we are last in the league still. If you think fast breaks are what wins titles, I would submit to you the 2006 Phoenix Suns.

Why in the hell would Roy or Blake set picks? Players should set picks for them, which they are doing a very poor job of.
 
shamelessblazer said:
do you watch the games?
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Yes.

shamelessblazer said:
Why are we always so terrible at the start at the beginning of the game and the start of the third when Blake/Roy is our backcourt?
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We have started fast against Miami, the Bulls, Utah, Sacramento and probably other games I can't think of - so the always terrible start thing is nonsense at best.

Can't remember anything specific about the 3rd quarter - but the fact of that matter is that the numbers clearly show that our problems are defense, not offense. If you tell me that you watch the games and you disagree - than the problem is not with the numbers - it's with your ability to interpret what is happening on the court.

The last game against the Kings also showed me that we started the 4th with 4 points over the Kings, with Sergio trying to push the ball and by mid-quarter we were down by 6. We had Roy and Blake come back in and they (Roy specifically) won us the game.

Again, look at the statistics. Our offense works well most nights - and there is no reason to assume it will not get better simply by having better post play as Oden gets his legs and improves his skills.

Our problem is defense, not offense.
 
andalusian said:
Yes.



We have started fast against Miami, the Bulls, Utah, Sacramento and probably other games I can't think of - so the always terrible start thing is nonsense at best.

Can't remember anything specific about the 3rd quarter - but the fact of that matter is that the numbers clearly show that our problems are defense, not offense. If you tell me that you watch the games and you disagree - than the problem is not with the numbers - it's with your ability to interpret what is happening on the court.

The last game against the Kings also showed me that we started the 4th with 4 points over the Kings, with Sergio trying to push the ball and by mid-quarter we were down by 6. We had Roy and Blake come back in and they (Roy specifically) won us the game.

Again, look at the statistics. Our offense works well most nights - and there is no reason to assume it will not get better simply by having better post play as Oden gets his legs and improves his skills.

Our problem is defense, not offense.
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That is what I've been trying to hammer in since posting on this forum. Defense wins championships. For some reason a lot of folks are so enamored with the fast break up tempo offense. It is fun to watch (I do watch the Warriors for fun, but I cringe of the thought of our Blazers using such a system). Anyhow, the offense first mindset can only get you so far in the playoffs. The Showtime Lakers had the best running team ever, but their defense (perimeter and interior) spearheaded those fastbreaks. Indeed, we need to play to "potential" strength, which is defense. Offense gets all the glory and comes naturally to most players because most players love that end of the court, but team defense is hard work and takes a certain mindset.
 
LittleAlex said:
We are not, and never haven been a fast break team. We are not going to be in the future, either. Frankly, it has gotten slightly better this season, but I am pretty sure we are last in the league still. If you think fast breaks are what wins titles, I would submit to you the 2006 Phoenix Suns.
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oh yeah, the year Phoenix would've won if not for the bogus suspension of their two best players in a huge playoff series, I remember that.

I'm not calling for us to be a fast break team, I'm calling for us to selectively run as well as the average in the league...idiot

The showtime lakers, spurs, Kobe-Shaq lakers, Jordan bulls, Bird Celtics, and a lot of other CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS at least could get as many fast break points as average.

I have never called to push the ball down the court after the other team scores (though it can lead to easy points its very risky), I just think we should get to average with the personal we have who are more than capable. Specifically Sergio, Rudy, Webster, and Aldridge who are being completely wasted right now.
 
shamelessblazer said:
oh yeah, the year Phoenix would've won if not for the bogus suspension of their two best players in a huge playoff series, I remember that.
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Ummm, sorry, but Amare Stoudemire ran out onto the court (from the bench) and, as they say, started to "act like he was somebody." Meaning that he ran out there with his chest all puffed-up, looking as menacing as he possibly could've, and started trying to intimidate players from the opposing team during the fracas. In case you haven't heard, the NBA has a (strict) rule about players leaving the bench during altercations--and it carries with it a mandatory suspension of, at minimum, one game. Was it unfortunate that it might've cost the Suns a trip to The Finals? Yeah, probably for Suns fans. But, as the old adage goes: "Rules are rules." Amare broke the rules and got suspended, then he and the Phoenix Suns had to pay the price for his stupidity and/or disregard of the rules.

"Bogus?" Puh-lease...
 
shamelessblazer said:
Specifically Sergio, Rudy, Webster, and Aldridge who are being completely wasted right now.
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Maybe we should wait and see how Nate uses Webster with the current team before you decide that he is being completely wasted right now.
 
shamelessblazer said:
oh yeah, the year Phoenix would've won if not for the bogus suspension of their two best players in a huge playoff series, I remember that.

I'm not calling for us to be a fast break team, I'm calling for us to selectively run as well as the average in the league...idiot

The showtime lakers, spurs, Kobe-Shaq lakers, Jordan bulls, Bird Celtics, and a lot of other CHAMPIONSHIP TEAMS at least could get as many fast break points as average.

I have never called to push the ball down the court after the other team scores (though it can lead to easy points its very risky), I just think we should get to average with the personal we have who are more than capable. Specifically Sergio, Rudy, Webster, and Aldridge who are being completely wasted right now.
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I am wondering just how many games we would win if Roy wasn't playing? I am guessing we would have lost the first two home games, since he saved those for us. Probably the game on Monday, since he was the only player worth a shit on the floor. In fact, I would say that those players you just mentioned better fucking get used to playing with B-Roy since he is BY FAR the best player on the team.

And one other thing. I refrained from name calling because doing so on a forum is for cowards. I perfer to do the majority of my insulting to someones face.
 
it's time for Roy to take the next step in his development as a star, learning to play off the ball. If not he will always be either a good player on a bad team, or a good player on a good team who doesn't make his teammates better. Lebron moves backdoor and helps out his teammates, Wade does it too, even Iverson to a certain extent. Playing with good bigs is humbling for star guards, and that's what Roy needs to learn to do.
 
what about just Blake/Frye for Barbosa? That could make things interesting...Barbosa has long been said a good compliment to Roy. He fits more into our timeline than Nash, though he isn't nearly as good. It could open up minutes for Rudy and Batum, and I definitely see the appeal for Phoenix.

Roy/Sergio/Bayless
Barbosa/Rudy
Webster/Batum
Aldridge/Outlaw/Diogu/Randolph
Oden/Pryzbilla

it also doesn't lessen our cap space at all for next year.
 
shamelessblazer said:
a good player on a good team who doesn't make his teammates better.
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Really? Than how comes that Juan Dixon, Travis Outlaw, Martell Webster, Steve Blake, James Jones and Zach Randolph had their best years as NBA players playing next to Brandon Roy?
 
andalusian said:
Really? Than how comes that Juan Dixon, Travis Outlaw, Martell Webster, Steve Blake, James Jones and Zach Randolph had their best years as NBA players playing next to Brandon Roy?
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ha, that's pretty circumstancial guy. Juan has sucked every year of his career and got the most playing time that year, Outlaw, Martell, and Blake have never really played with anyone else (averaged more than 15mpg), Jones had a real good stretch and then cooled off playing mostly with Sergio, and Randolph had a better year before his MF w/o Roy.

Nice logic
 
KP is a smart man. He would not give up a chunk of our future for players like Diaw, Barbosa, an aging Steve Nash, ect.

Amare on the other hand.....
 
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