Iraq - Who to blame?

[Something-To-Say]

That's why we pull everyone out of Iraq and pretend like it never happened. Just like 'Nam.

 

[redneck]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noah @ Dec 20 2006, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Gaddamn, I've never seen someone gobble up what the media f*cking feeds them and ask for 2nd's with such a big sh*t eating grin on their face, more than yourself redneck. The deaths in this war aren't "sh*t" eh? Compared to what other conflict? World War 2? Viet Nam? You give it another coupla years, and it will be... Talk about zero respect for f*cking humanity, it's people like you that make me ashamed to be part of the human race sometimes. If the violence is ever going to end? The violence has existed in the middle east for thousands and thousands of years... You think keeping a foreign country in there is going to solve anything? You think killing more and more people and spending more and more money is helping matters? See you nor your f*cking president can give a clear-cut definition of what "stay the course" means... WHY? Because there is none! So much so that the pricks in office backtracked their little statement and denied ever saying "stay the course" just like predictable, lying, murderous politicians f*cking do.You and the republicunts f*cking disgust me. And by the looks of the poll article in the post I made above, I'm not the only one who's f*cking fed up with this gaddamn failure of a f*cking war.</div>I don't listen to everything the media says, infact it's just the opposit. but I can read, and do read; I read opions from sources other than the internet. also, you shouldn't critisize anyone for listening to the media when you're constantly posting links to sites.Look at the death numbers; the Iraqi's claim between 100,000-150,000 people on their side have died, the US claims about 3,000 colilition troops have died. so thats at most 153,000 give or take probably 5,000. that is nothing compared to wars such as the American Civil War(1 million plus),Vietnam(2 million plus), the Sudan violence is around 5 million now, Sierra Leon claimed close to a million, the Iran-Iraq conflict about half a million, the Phillipino-American war around 400,000; and there are countless other wars with much higher caustalty counts.you're right about violence in the middle east as a constant, but when I said end the violence I meant that we need to institute some sort of normalcy in the region. car bombs and mosque shootings are not normal not even for the middle east(except israel). Stay the corse means don't pull out. you think if we pull out everyone over there will be happy and be singing, they wont be; and if you believe that than you're a f*cking idiot. pulling out would be a huge mistake which would eventually find its way back to the shores of the US. the last thing the world needs is terrorist setting up in a country with strategic resources, the reason terrorist regimes have been allowed to exist in Sudan, Somalia, and Afghanistan is because they dont have any resource the rest the world needs so those countries stay as backwater dirt holes, and it allows the madmen to do what they want unmolested. Iraq and its oil is a differnt case, terrorist could sale the oil than use the funds to by bigger and better weapons; including long range aircraft that could attack to US. also, I'm not a republican; I am fairly conservitive. A lot of people are fed up with Bush, but half of them have no clue why they don't like the guy, and I take it you're one of them. you go on and on about a war, a war which until a year ago the democrats supported(remember John Kerry voted for the war before he voted against it). Yes, Bush did mislead to country and yes he did lie to the American public. but was removing Saddam such a bad thing? no it wasn't. Saddam and his sons ran a terrorist regime and both GHW Bush and Bill Clinton should have delt with him, both had reasons and would have had a lot more support to do so.

 

[The`Dream]

You guys complain about the media, but where else are we supposed to get info about Iraq. All the info from the gov. goes through either CNN, Fox or MSNBC. The heads of these news organizations basically control the collective opinion of the country. We, being people who actually care, don't have an alternative option then to listen to them.The fact is, the United States Army, the biggest, most expensive army in the world is not winning in a war. US soldiers are being killed by organizations that cannot even operate openly in most countries. Trillions of dollars, five entire branches of the most costly army in the world are getting out-witted by extremists who are completely enpowered in the Middle East. This conflict wasn't supposed to be easy, yet it certainly shouldn't of been this costly.

 

[Noah]

Awww redneck... You've really not been paying attention, have you? I knew I'd have to dismantle your retort piece by piece...

I don't listen to everything the media says, infact it's just the opposit. but I can read, and do read; I read opions from sources other than the internet. also, you shouldn't critisize anyone for listening to the media when you're constantly posting links to sites.

Since you read, and seemingly discount any legitimate sources online (ie. CNN, MSNBC, etc.) then why don't you fill us in on who these "experts" are, that claim staying at war is a "good thing" eh?

Look at the death numbers; the Iraqi's claim between 100,000-150,000 people on their side have died, the US claims about 3,000 colilition troops have died. so thats at most 153,000 give or take probably 5,000.

Again, sources for these numbers? And you give this f*cking failure of a war the length of time that other previous ones have had, and it'll quickly reach those numbers, ya dolt.

you're right about violence in the middle east as a constant, but when I said end the violence I meant that we need to institute some sort of normalcy in the region. car bombs and mosque shootings are not normal not even for the middle east(except israel).

Really? So you've actually been there? You know how it is, when it comes to specifics in the everyday lives of people who live in that region of the world, and what is "normal" for THEM in their everyday lives, do ya? Wow. You're astounding.

Stay the corse means don't pull out. you think if we pull out everyone over there will be happy and be singing, they wont be; and if you believe that than you're a f*cking idiot. pulling out would be a huge mistake which would eventually find its way back to the shores of the US. the last thing the world needs is terrorist setting up in a country with strategic resources, the reason terrorist regimes have been allowed to exist in Sudan, Somalia, and Afghanistan is because they dont have any resource the rest the world needs so those countries stay as backwater dirt holes, and it allows the madmen to do what they want unmolested. Iraq and its oil is a differnt case, terrorist could sale the oil than use the funds to by bigger and better weapons; including long range aircraft that could attack to US.

In other words, bush jr needed to pick up where his f*cking daddy left off in 1991. It's all about the oil, isn't it? But again, the original reason that was given is that there were WMD's there! Oh no! Where the F*ck are those WMD's redneck? You can't tell me or anyone else, because they DON'T f*cking EXIST! Not only that, but you think it'll end up coming back? You think those "terrorists" that you're so fearful of will come back if we get out of there right away? They're f*cking TERRORISTS!! They'll attack anytime, anywhere, for any reason they deem fu*kin suitable for christ's sake! Here's another link (factual evidence!) that the Iraqi's do NOT want the us army occupying their country any f*cking longer! AGAIN, let THEM handle their OWN sh*t! The ONLY people who think that this country is incapable of existing on it's own, are the ***hole war-mongers like yourself, that buy into the hateful support of this F*cked up war:http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/27/iraqis-poll/

also, I'm not a republican; I am fairly conservitive. A lot of people are fed up with Bush, but half of them have no clue why they don't like the guy, and I take it you're one of them.

And THIS is why you've not been paying attention... I gave a whole laundry list of why I think bush is a f*cking megalomaniacal, murderous, egotistical, selfish, conniving, un-trustworthy son of a f*cking bi*ch, and here it is (yet again!):http://www.bball-world.net/forum/index.php...18527&st=15Bottom line is this: You're wrong. This war needs to end as soon as f*cking possible.

 

[The`Dream]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Bottom line is this: You're wrong. This war needs to end as soon as f*cking possible</div>I agree, 100% (I actually respect you now after today lol)This war does need to end ASAP, but I don't think we pull out now. We need to finish what we started and provide atleast a small chance that this government would stay upright without the US there.

 

[redneck]

Since you read, and seemingly discount any legitimate sources online (ie. CNN, MSNBC, etc.) then why don't you fill us in on who these "experts" are, that claim staying at war is a "good thing" eh?

Have you seen/heard/read what most the generals and staff from the pentagon have said? yes some are rightwing wackjobs, but they do have the credentials to be listen too. the sources you post are famous for being left.

Again, sources for these numbers? And you give this f*cking failure of a war the length of time that other previous ones have had, and it'll quickly reach those numbers, ya dolt.

My source for those numbers comes "History of Combat" the 1981 edition.

Really? So you've actually been there? You know how it is, when it comes to specifics in the everyday lives of people who live in that region of the world, and what is "normal" for THEM in their everyday lives, do ya? Wow. You're astounding.

Yes I have been to the Middle East; I've also done extensive research on the area.

In other words, bush jr needed to pick up where his f*cking daddy left off in 1991. It's all about the oil, isn't it? But again, the original reason that was given is that there were WMD's there! Oh no! Where the F*ck are those WMD's redneck? You can't tell me or anyone else, because they DON'T f*cking EXIST! Not only that, but you think it'll end up coming back? You think those "terrorists" that you're so fearful of will come back if we get out of there right away? They're f*cking TERRORISTS!! They'll attack anytime, anywhere, for any reason they deem fu*kin suitable for christ's sake!

I never said they had them now, I said they will get them if we leave, and yes Bush SR did F*ck up by not removing Saddam in 91. it was a huge F*ck up on his part and thats why we're in this mess. The reason why the terrorist havent been attack here is because they are preoccupied attack elsewhere. yes, a terrorist attack will occur again, but if we pull out they will see us for being weak and it will be open season on us.

Here's another link (factual evidence!) that the Iraqi's do NOT want the us army occupying their country any f*cking longer! AGAIN, let THEM handle their OWN sh*t! The ONLY people who think that this country is incapable of existing on it's own, are the ***hole war-mongers like yourself, that buy into the hateful support of this F*cked up war:

The link isn't working for me, but the link appears to be to an American based website which I have never heard of. so Im not really relying on its credibility.

And THIS is why you've not been paying attention... I gave a whole laundry list of why I think bush is a f*cking megalomaniacal, murderous, egotistical, selfish, conniving, un-trustworthy son of a f*cking bi*ch, and here it is (yet again!):http://www.bball-world.net/forum/index.php...18527&st=15Bottom line is this: You're wrong. This war needs to end as soon as f*cking possible.

Yes I've read yout list, and your list looks like its copied of a leftwing website.

 

[The`Dream]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>My source for those numbers comes "History of Combat" the 1981 edition.</div>How would a 1981 edition of a book have war statistics occuring in 2006?

 

[redneck]

Sorry, that book is where I got my numbers for the old conflicts. the numbers from the Iraq war have come from various other sources, I'm not sure on the US deaths I just heard a news report the other day that said the total US dead was two-thousand something; thats why I said it was about 3000-I just rounded it up.

 

[Noah]

I don't need to deconstruct anymore of your posts redneck, you seem to be doing a good job of it yourself. So since you seem so well traveled, and you think you're right with your equally right sources (that you've openly admitted - but yet have actually given)... And since you're in such support of this failure of a f*cking war, and have already proven you have zero respect for humanity, and are hateful towards those in the middle east, I have to ask you one thing:Why the F*ck aren't you enlisted and over there? And if you already ARE, I suggest you get the F*ck off this board, and go out and slaughter some more women and children!If you're not, I truly hope it either has something to do with a LEGITIMATE disability you have (which would be quite convenient actually), or you're under age. Because any other excuse you come up with won't be good enough. Another thing, no matter WHAT you say, you'll NEVER convince me that this war is even remotely CLOSE to being a "good thing", and unfortunately and apparently it's the same for you with my points. Quite sad too, you seem more educated than most on this board... It's just unfortunate you've been brain-f*cking-washed by the f*cking REAL weapons of mass destruction sitting in the f*cking white house.

 

[redneck]

I never joined because I have responsibilities here I have to take care of, things that if I cannot leave unattended. if there was a draft and I was drafted I would go. I don't have respect for the lives of the enemy; during war you cannot humanize your enemy. once they are no longer our enemy I could give a ratass about them.War is rarely a good thing, but it's sometimes nessecary. I've been on the kill Saddam bandwagon since about 96, so I've always supported this war, the problem is that the Pentagons senarios for this war were wrong. they didnt take into account the insurgentcy, nor did they make sure they sealed the borders after they invaded. make no mistake about I dont support most the strategems the military has been using; and yes some of this sh*t they did only resulted in senseless death. When the war first began I did think Iraq had Bio and Chem weapons; but thats because they had previously had them and had previously used them. I also believe the presdient believed they had them, or he believed they had them up until April 03. Im going off topic here, but there is a very good video called "the lying Mr Bush" which shows footage of Bush speaches, in speachers where he is lying he studders and acts like an idiot, when he is telling the truth he speaks good(for him). up until early April 03, about 3 weeks before the invasion, he never sounded stupid when talking about the WMDs, after which he sounded stupid. also, there is that CIA document, which no body ever brings up, which said without a doubt the Iraqis had atleast Anthrax and nerve gas.

 

[Noah]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (redneck @ Dec 20 2006, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I never joined because I have responsibilities here I have to take care of, things that if I cannot leave unattended. if there was a draft and I was drafted I would go. I don't have respect for the lives of the enemy; during war you cannot humanize your enemy. once they are no longer our enemy I could give a ratass about them.</div>Right. Well this will be the last time I attempt to engage in any sort of rational debate with you, since you've shown yourself to be a hateful *ucker with a lack of any respect for humanity. I refuse to waste anymore of my time trying to debate a heartless f*cking drone like yourself. You truly disgust me, and again make me ashamed to be a part of the human race... F*ck you, and your close-minded, hateful, nonsensical bullsh** f*cking stance.

 

[BrewCityBuck]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noah @ Dec 20 2006, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And you can prove this "fact" eh? I'd love to see you try. And after they leave (IF that EVER f*cking happens) foreign govt's could still take over the f*cking country, very much similar to what the us army is doing NOW. In the meantime, let those Motherf*cking bodies pile up!

</div> Stop acting like you give a sh*t about Iraqi's dying.

 

[Noah]

:thumbdn1: :no3:

 

[BrewCityBuck]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noah @ Dec 21 2006, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>:thumbdn1: :no3:</div> I really doubt you care about Iraqi's dying. Because from what I understand you never supported the war from the beginning. So you wouldn't have wanted to help the Iraqies and they would have continued to get slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands by an evil dictator. Now you freak out and want the troops out because you see them dying on the news...but really they have been getting killed secretly for 25 years...

 

[Diawsome]

Blame for the mess it has becomes should be spread around.Bush is at fault for the way the War/conflict has been handled ever since the "war" part of this situation ended.The CIA whom I believe was the agency who collected intelligence that Bush and the Senate used to make their decisions are at fault for not having their facts straight.The media with their gloom-n-doom & it bleeds, it leads reporting tactics deserve a large share of the credit/blame (depending on how you look at it) for how the people have turned against the war.