IRS Targeted Conservative Groups

[Masbee]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ing-to-jail-over-irs-scandal-probably-nobody/

Your linked Washington Post (read, Liberal, Democrat, Obama loving mainstream media) story, opines that,

"probably nobody will go to jail", over the IRS scandal.

Not because no crimes have occurred, and not because no laws have been broken, and not because no regulations have been violated, but because Washington scandals rarely lead to jail. Which is basically true.

Did the IRS’s conduct take a step beyond mere “wrongdoing” and venture into criminal territory?

In short: We don’t know yet.

Unlike Denny, who is absolutely sure no crimes have occurred, the Washington Post is taking a wait and see stance.

The rest of the story list several laws that might have been broken (or did you miss that part Denny?):

1) Civil rights laws that protect people from being discriminated against by the government
2) The Hatch Act, which prevents civil servants from engaging in partisan political activity
3) Perjury laws, which prevent people from lying to Congress

Additionally, we have the potential improper release of confidential tax records, which is against numerous IRS regulations and a law indicating 5 years jail time.

Additionally, we have the potential of violating the Watergate era law if a smoking gun implicating the White House in directing the IRS to target political "enemies" is uncovered.

 

[Denny Crane]

Again, what laws were broken, and by who? You're so certain, you must have even one tiny little fact to support what you say, right?

 

[PapaG]

The path to a special prosecutor is starting in the ... Senate? Seems as if some Dems may want to keep their seats...

“39. Provide documents relating to communications between any and all IRS employees and any and all White House employees including, but not limited to, the President, regarding the targeting of organizations seeking 501 (c)(3), (4), (5), or (6) tax-exempt status for full development or heightened scrutiny based on the existence of certain words or phrases in their applications, from February 2010 to the present. This includes any documents relating to communications received by any IRS employee from the White House or Treasury, whether or not the IRS employee was simply the recipient of such a communication from either the White House or Treasury.”

 

[Masbee]

Again, what laws were broken, and by who? You're so certain, you must have even one tiny little fact to support what you say, right?

If you don't like your own link, there is nothing I can do for you.

You seem beyond help at this point.

Why you have taken these strange positions, which is an odd combination of head-in-the-sand naiveté and Obama Admin shills talking points 101. Look at quotes from these folks, your posts parrot their bullshit.

What crimes occurred, you say? If there isn't videotape of the actual killing, then there is no crime, seems to be your position. When the results and common sense scream law-breaking (at the least), even to some Democrats.

We have scandal "handling" from the Obama Admin, instead of full disclosure and transparency, which is what is done when there is something to hide, we have IRS officials running for the exits, hiding, pointing fingers, blaming lowers, blaming superiors, claiming incompetence and ignorance, which are all actions that law-breakers would take and are defenses of charges of law-breaking.

These folks are all acting guilty and all taking the actions one would take if guilty of breaking laws. These same actions are likely career destroyers. You don't destroy a career unless you have little choice. When there is smoke.

 

[Denny Crane]

My link says it's near impossible to prove any crime was committed. It's a HUGE reach.

May as well add murder to the imaginary crimes. It's just as hard to prove that happened as part of this scandal.

 

[Masbee]

My link says it's near impossible to prove any crime was committed. It's a HUGE reach.

May as well add murder to the imaginary crimes. It's just as hard to prove that happened as part of this scandal.

You're claim about murder is absurd on its face. No one has confessed to "manslaughter", which the equivalent to what has happened at the IRS. They have already confessed to wrongdoing. They are the ones claiming their wrongdoing was bad, but does not rise to breaking the law.

What the hell do you expect them to say?

After violating civil rights and hiding those actions for years, you believe everything they now say.

Denny: I know these folds lied before, but NOW can trust every word because, because, because.

 

[Masbee]

My link says it's near impossible to prove any crime was committed. It's a HUGE reach.

.

There you go again.

Making stuff up.

It doesn't say "near impossible".

 

[Denny Crane]

There you go again.

Making stuff up.

It doesn't say "near impossible".

What's the title of the article?

What do the last four paragraphs say?

 

[PapaG]

Here come the lawyers...

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-top-irs-official-fifth-amendment-20130521,0,6645565.story

Top IRS official will invoke Fifth Amendment

By Richard Simon and Joseph Tanfani
May 21, 2013, 12:15 p.m.
WASHINGTON – A top IRS official in the division that reviews nonprofit groups will invoke the Fifth Amendment and refuse to answer questions before a House committee investigating the agency’s improper screening of conservative nonprofit groups.

Lois Lerner, the head of the exempt organizations division of the IRS, won’t answer questions about what she knew about the improper screening – or why she didn’t reveal it to Congress, according to a letter from her defense lawyer, William W. Taylor 3rd.

Lerner was scheduled to appear before the House Oversight committee Wednesday.

DOCUMENT: The Inspector General’s report on the IRS

“She has not committed any crime or made any misrepresentation but under the circumstances she has no choice but to take this course,” said a letter by Taylor to committee Chairman Darrell E. Issa, R-Calif. The letter, sent Monday, was obtained Tuesday by the Los Angeles Times.

Taylor, a criminal defense attorney from the Washington firm of Zuckerman Spaeder, said that the Department of Justice has launched a criminal investigation, and that the House committee has asked Lerner to explain why she provided “false or misleading information” to the committee four times last year.

Since Lerner won’t answer questions, Taylor asked that she be excused from appearing, saying that would “have no purpose other than to embarrass or burden her.” There was no immediate word whether the committee will grant her request.

PHOTOS: President Obama’s rough week

According to an inspector general’s report, Lerner found out in June 2011 that some staff in the nonprofits division in Cincinnati had used terms like “Tea Party” and “Patriots” to select some applications for additional screening of their political activities. She ordered changes.

But neither Lerner nor anyone else at the IRS told Congress, even after repeated queries from several committees, including House Oversight, about whether some groups had been singled out unfairly.

Follow Politics Now on Twitter and Facebook

joseph.tanfani@latimes.com

Twitter: @JTanfani

richard.simon@latimes.com

Twitter: @richardsimon11

 

[Denny Crane]

The government has unlimited resources to prosecute these people. They have to fund their defense on their own. if they're not independently wealthy, taking the 5th is a good way to keep their lawyer bills down.

 

[PapaG]

So, Obama's Chief of Staff knew about this months ago, but decided not to tell Obama about it?

Does Obama do anything other than golf, party, and watch ESPN? Or is this just another brazen lie before a special prosecutor is commissioned?

Obama Chief of Staff Got Early Word of Improper IRS Scrutiny

resident Barack Obama’s chief of staff was told that an investigation found IRS employees improperly scrutinized Tea Party and small-government advocacy groups seeking tax-exempt status before the report was made public, White House press secretary Jay Carney said.

Obama wasn’t informed of the probe at the time, Carney said. Chief of staff Denis McDonough was told by White House Counsel Kathryn Ruemmler about the inspector general’s audit and the probable findings after Ruemmler was briefed on it on April 24, he said. The president has said he learned of the audit when the likely findings were first made public May 10.

 

[PapaG]

The government has unlimited resources to prosecute these people. They have to fund their defense on their own. if they're not independently wealthy, taking the 5th is a good way to keep their lawyer bills down.

The irony here is intentional, right? The of the IRS Tax Exempt division now needs to protect herself from 'the government' and its resources.

 

[Denny Crane]

The irony here is intentional, right? The of the IRS Tax Exempt division now needs to protect herself from 'the government' and its resources.

I thought it was really bad for Casper Weinberger. He was spending many $millions on his defense lawyer bills before he was pardoned by GHW Bush.

It hasn't gotten any better. And these people in question are certainly incompetent government type employees. Not as if they made some money running a business.

 

[PapaG]

 

[maxiep]

Her legal bills will be covered by a foundation or a Democratic heavy like Bob Bennett will take the case pro bono.

 

[maxiep]

The irony here is intentional, right? The of the IRS Tax Exempt division now needs to protect herself from 'the government' and its resources.

It's delicious. Perhaps she'll get a nice perspective of what it feels like to be on the other side of the table.

The IRS is the only agency of which I can think where you're required to testify against yourself and you're presumed guilty and must prove your innocence.

 

[Denny Crane]

Her legal bills will be covered by a foundation or a Democratic heavy like Bob Bennett will take the case pro bono.

If they really think she's some low level hack following orders, they should grant her immunity so she can squeal on Obama. He clearly went to the office in Cincinnati and told them all face to face to make the tax cheaters cry.

 

[maxiep]

If they really think she's some low level hack following orders, they should grant her immunity so she can squeal on Obama. He clearly went to the office in Cincinnati and told them all face to face to make the tax cheaters cry.

If she's granted immunity, then she'll take all the blame.

 

[Denny Crane]

If she's granted immunity, then she'll take all the blame.

She's taking the blame now.

If she lies under oath, she would be prosecuted for perjury.

 

[PapaG]

I'd once again like to point out that the head of the office at the center of this targeting of conservative groups is pleading the 5th.

The talk about trusting your government and defending its agencies is for fools at this point.

 

[PapaG]

She's taking the blame now.

If she lies under oath, she would be prosecuted for perjury.

She's taking the 5th now, not the blame. She doesn't want to be under oath talking about these actions, so she is invoking her right to not incriminate herself.

It's basically a flag of guilt for most rational people. You've been amusing in this thread, though. Read it again and your excuses fall apart at every turn, yet you continue to make the fool of yourself. It's awesome.

 

[Denny Crane]

She's taking the 5th now, not the blame. She doesn't want to be under oath talking about these actions, so she is invoking her right to not incriminate herself.

It's basically a flag of guilt for most rational people. You've been amusing in this thread, though. Read it again and your excuses fall apart at every turn, yet you continue to make the fool of yourself. It's awesome.

You blame her.

Pleading the 5th is not an admission of guilt. You look like the fool for suggesting otherwise.

 

[Denny Crane]

If they really think she's some low level hack following orders, they should grant her immunity so she can squeal on Obama. He clearly went to the office in Cincinnati and told them all face to face to make the tax cheaters cry.

I look like a fool?

Issa is looking at granting her immunity as I predicted.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Pleading the 5th is not an admission of guilt.

On the other hand, only the guilty hide.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

You blame her.

Pleading the 5th is not an admission of guilt. You look like the fool for suggesting otherwise.

Denny...ok, build as strawman, split hairs, whatever

The fifth "I refuse to answer that, on the grounds that I may incriminate myself"

 

[Denny Crane]

Denny...ok, build as strawman, split hairs, whatever

The fifth "I refuse to answer that, on the grounds that I may incriminate myself"

http://sol.lp.findlaw.com/2000/reiner.html

Holding: The Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination “protects the innocent as well as the guilty, and the facts here are sufficient to sustain a claim of privilege.” The judgment of the Supreme Court of Ohio was reversed.

...

“we have never held, as the Supreme Court of Ohio did, that the privilege is unavailable to those who claim innocence.” To the contrary, the Court long ago ruled that one of the privilege’s main functions is to protect the innocent. Even truthful responses of an innocent person can ensnare the speaker. Grunewald v. United States, 353 U.S. 391 (1957).

 

[Denny Crane]

Don't get me wrong. I understand why she's doing what she's doing. I don't presume guilt or innocence - there is no crime committed as I've said a few times already. However, any little thing she testifies that is wrong - a time off by an hour, a date off by a week, could be construed as perjury or lying to congress, so she is rather smart to say nothing.

I wish she would testify. I think getting to the truth is a wonderful thing. I suspect the truth is that the govt. is incompetent, but that's nothing new.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Denny, if you had to take the stand about your dealings with S2, would you plead the "5th"?

 

[Denny Crane]

Denny, if you had to take the stand about your dealings with S2, would you plead the "5th"?

If they ask about drugs, I would.

I don't do drugs, but people have posted here that they do.

I wouldn't want to be associated with those crimes, eh?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Denny, if you had to take the stand about your dealings with S2, would you plead the "5th"?

It's Denny Crane, he'd drink a 5th and then pee on the judge.