Is Aldridge Really a Terrible Rebounder?

[BGrantFan]

Since it seems that now even the national media is starting to criticize LaMarcus Aldridge and his supposed lack of rebounding, I thought it would be interesting to see who was the 2nd-leading rebounder on teams that had one player average over 10 rpg last season.

So, here goes:


1) Dwight Howard 13.2 (Matt Barnes 5.5)
2) Marcus Camby 12.8 (LaMarcus Aldridge 8.0)
3) Zach Randolph 11.7 (Marc Gasol 9.3)
4) David Lee 11.7 (Al Harrington 5.6)
5) Carlos Boozer 11.2 (Paul Millsap 6.8)
6) Chris Bosh 10.8 (Andrei Bargnani 6.2)
7) Troy Murphy 10.2 (Roy Hibbert 5.7)
8) Tim Duncan 10.1 (DeJuan Blair 6.4)
9) Gerald Wallace 10.0 (Tyson Chandler 6.3)

Now, I do realize that a player like DeJuan Blair is a much better rebounder than Aldridge, but he also clearly lacks other skills at this point that keep him off of the court for extended periods of time. The same could be said for Paul Millsap, except I expect him to contend in leading Utah in rebounding, so that makes either Millsap or Al Jefferson the second rebounder.

Also, the Blazers were 6th in rebound % last season, while teams like the Knicks, the Pacers, and the Raptors all were under .500 in that category.

 

[HailBlazers]

No, but the grass is always greener on the other-side.

Nice Rundown.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I'm OK with 8.0 rpg. I'd rather like to see it at 9.0, but I'm fine with this.

 

[hasoos]

and Camby played how many games here last year to base those numbers off of?

So can you explain why every time Lamarcus gets criticized for not rebounding in the public forum he comes back with a huge rebounding game or two and then reverts to his old self?

The problem is motor. He can rebound better than he has, but he isn't, he is making excuses.

Listen folks, did we draft him #2 to be an above average scoring PF, or did we draft him at #2 to be an elite level player? How do you expect other players on the team to make an effort if one of the team leaders isn't making that effort himself?

 

[BGrantFan]

No, but the grass is always greener on the other-side.

Nice Rundown.

It also puzzles me how Aldridge is not a "legit" 2nd scorer when he ended up 31st in the league in points per game last year for a team that plays with the slowest pace in the league.

Last I checked, there are only 30 teams in the NBA, yet the 31st highest scorer isn't a good second option? It makes no sense.

 

[BGrantFan]

and Camby played how many games here last year to base those numbers off of?

So can you explain why every time Lamarcus gets criticized for not rebounding in the public forum he comes back with a huge rebounding game or two and then reverts to his old self?

The problem is motor. He can rebound better than he has, but he isn't, he is making excuses.

Listen folks, did we draft him #2 to be an above average scoring PF, or did we draft him at #2 to be an elite level player? How do you expect other players on the team to make an effort if one of the team leaders isn't making that effort himself?

Hey, I only offered statistics. Do what you will with them. I disagree with your opinion, but that's fine.

 

[BGrantFan]

Listen folks, did we draft him #2 to be an above average scoring PF, or did we draft him at #2 to be an elite level player?

How many "elite" level players do you expect one team to have? Roy, Oden, and Aldridge? I think the team drafted Aldridge to be a productive NBA PF on a playoff team, which he is, and hopefully a championship team, which I hope he becomes. Would you rather have Bargnani or Tyrus Thomas instead?

 

[hasoos]

How many "elite" level players do you expect one team to have? Roy, Oden, and Aldridge? I think the team drafted Aldridge to be a productive NBA PF on a playoff team, which he is, and hopefully a championship team, which I hope he becomes. Would you rather have Bargnani or Tyrus Thomas instead?

More than 1, when you draft them #2.

 

[44Thrilla]

same thing, except using rebounds per 48min.

Blair-16.9
Chandler-13.2
Millsap-11.8
Gasol- 12.4
Hibbert- 10.9
Barnes - 10.3
LA- 10.3
Harrington-8.9
Bargnani- 8.5

 

[THE HCP]

We didn't draft him #2! We drafted a fucking scrub and traded said scrub for a PF that gives us 18/8!

 

[BGrantFan]

More than 1, when you draft them #2.

What is an "elite level" player?

Aldridge was 31st in scoring, and 23rd in rebounding.

 

[BGrantFan]

same thing, except using rebounds per 48min.

Blair-16.9
Chandler-13.2
Millsap-11.8
Gasol- 12.4
Hibbert- 10.9
Barnes - 10.3
LA- 10.3
Harrington-8.9
Bargnani- 8.5

Did you miss this part of my original post?

Now, I do realize that a player like DeJuan Blair is a much better rebounder than Aldridge, but he also clearly lacks other skills at this point that keep him off of the court for extended periods of time. The same could be said for Paul Millsap, except I expect him to contend in leading Utah in rebounding, so that makes either Millsap or Al Jefferson the second rebounder.

Rebounds/48 are great over a season, but on a nightly basis, Aldridge got more rebounds than all but one of those guys. Plus, he played defense and was the 23rd-highest scorer in the league.

 

[andalusian]

I suspect that when he was drafted as a #2 in a class that Bargnani went #1 - it was far from clear that he would be a runaway elite player, he was labeled a project - and so far, has proved to be a very good player if not elite, yet. There is one player that is clearly beter than him from this draft class (Roy) and one questionable but likely better (Rondo). Overall, let's just be happy it did not end up like Marvin Williams over CP3/Deron or Darko over Melo, Bosh, Wade....

 

[BrianFromWA]

My concerns with LMA have always been that a) I think he takes a disproportionate amount of his shots in the least-efficient way possible: the long two-point jumper. He shoots it at 41% (for an really inefficient .83 pps) and is rarely fouled while doing it; b) his rebounding rate is not close to what an all-star level PF or C gets (consistently 13% TRR); c) his defensive play.

When he came out of college he was the Big 12 DPoY. My expectations (subject to ridicule) were that he was a project player offensively but his defense would get him on the court with ZBo. But can anyone here say that LMA is even a "plus" defender? He's hovering around a 107-108 Drtg his entire career.

Additionally, he struggles with setting hard picks and generally doesn't take a large number of shots from "close in". He's actually quite efficient when he does, but it doesn't happen often.

All of these concerns could be summed up (if you wanted to) by saying that LMA doesn't like or initiate contact (legally, not like Mahorn or Oakley). He doesn't set good picks, he doesn't box out well, he generally doesn't go into the paint (though he's efficient while there) and he doesn't do well bodying someone up on defense. I guess I wouldn't say he's "terrible" at rebounding or scoring. I wouldn't even say he's a "bad" second option. But as I said in the Roy thread, they need to get more efficient with HOW they're scoring, and plus up on the defensive side.

 

[hasoos]

There is no mystery to winning in the NBA. If you have an efficient offense and outrebound your opponent you will win most of your games. Period. Steals are nice and all, but the best way to get extra possessions is to rebound. Rebound, Rebound, and then rebound some more. You aren't going to get the steals every night. But rebounds is something you can control, and with that, control your teams destiny.

 

[44Thrilla]

Did you miss this part of my original post?

No, I didn't. The original post made me curious enough to look it up, so I figured I would post what I found. LMA is definitely a better player than those guys, but some of them are just much better rebounders.

 

[BGrantFan]

There is no mystery to winning in the NBA. If you have an efficient offense and outrebound your opponent you will win most of your games. Period. Steals are nice and all, but the best way to get extra possessions is to rebound. Rebound, Rebound, and then rebound some more. You aren't going to get the steals every night. But rebounds is something you can control, and with that, control your teams destiny.

Portland was #1 in rebounding % in 2008-09, and #6 last year playing 25 games or so with Juwan Howard at center. If, by some miracle, Oden can stay healthy, and Joel gets some spot minutes, I fully expect Aldridge's rebounding numbers to go down, but for the Blazers to be an even better rebounding team.

Camby, Oden, Przy? That's nuts out of the center spot in terms of rebounding.

 

[BGrantFan]

No, I didn't. The original post made me curious enough to look it up, so I figured I would post what I found. LMA is definitely a better player than those guys, but some of them are just much better rebounders.

Yes, that's what I posted.

 

[Cake]

After Camby joined the team, Aldridge averaged 7.3 rebounds in about 40 mpg.

And between losing Przybilla and trading for Camby, he averaged 9.1 rebounds in similar minutes.

Yes, he is a poor rebounder. Not that I think it matters THAT much.

 

[andalusian]

My concerns with LMA have always been that a) I think he takes a disproportionate amount of his shots in the least-efficient way possible: the long two-point jumper. He shoots it at 41% (for an really inefficient .83 pps) and is rarely fouled while doing it; b) his rebounding rate is not close to what an all-star level PF or C gets (consistently 13% TRR); c) his defensive play.

I think that #1 is more than valid - he needs to continue and use the jumper - but mix it up more with other ways to score, especially on the low block. #2 is valid, he is an OK rebounder, not a good one, not a terrible one. Would be nice if he was better - but it should be remember that on defense he is often the one leaking out to run the court - so maybe it is more a "by design" than a real criticism, finally - defense, while I think he can get better, I actually think that his DRTG does not really measure his defensive abilities - imho, LMA is a better defender than people give him credit, especially with the switch heavy defense this team played in previous years.

 

[BGrantFan]

After Camby joined the team, Aldridge averaged 7.3 rebounds in about 40 mpg.
Yes, he is a poor rebounder. Not that I think it matters THAT much.

So, he averaged more prior to Camby's arrival, and Camby took some rebounds away. I recall Aldridge going for 20/10 over an extended period last season after the Oden/Przy injuries and prior to the Camby trade. Did he suddenly become a worse rebounder when Camby arrived? Or, did his role change, because Camby could actually rebound, while Juwan Howard was a liability?

 

[44Thrilla]

Yes, that's what I posted.

Yes, we agree.

 

[Cake]

So, he averaged more prior to Camby's arrival, and Camby took some rebounds away. I recall Aldridge going for 20/10 over an extended period last season after the Oden/Przy injuries and prior to the Camby trade. Did he suddenly become a worse rebounder when Camby arrived? Or, did his role change, because Camby could actually rebound, while Juwan Howard was a liability?

My thought is he's a poor rebounder in general. Not terrible. Just poor.

In terms of rebound percentage, he was 37th in the league (only counting guys who got 500 minutes or more) Again, I don't think he's a terrible rebounder, but I'm not sure what numbers you can throw out there that indicate that he's a good rebounder. I don't think the rebound numbers for 2nd best rebounders on a team is much of a statistic.

And no, he didn't have an extended period of 20/10 games. He had eleven 20/10 games all season.

 

[BGrantFan]

My thought is he's a poor rebounder in general. Not terrible. Just poor.

In terms of rebound percentage, he was 37th in the league (only counting guys who got 500 minutes or more) Again, I don't think he's a terrible rebounder, but I'm not sure what numbers you can throw out there that indicate that he's a good rebounder. I don't think the rebound numbers for 2nd best rebounders on a team is much of a statistic.

Good for you. The team stats do say that the Blazers have been an elite rebounding team the past two years, and that's with a "poor" rebounding PF who ends up in the top 30 in rebounds both years.

Seems like an odd criticism of Aldridge, given the overall effectiveness of the team in terms of overall rebounding.

 

[THE HCP]

9.4 pts/ 6.2 rebs!

 

[blazerboy30]

Good for you. The team stats do say that the Blazers have been an elite rebounding team the past two years, and that's with a "poor" rebounding PF who ends up in the top 30 in rebounds both years.

Seems like an odd criticism of Aldridge, given the overall effectiveness of the team in terms of overall rebounding.

Your post asks if Aldridge is a "terrible" rebounder. Everybody has said, no, he isn't a "terrible" rebounder. Yet you continue to argue.

What is your position? Is he a "good", "poor", "great", "average" rebounder? What is the point of this thread?

 

[Cake]

Good for you. The team stats do say that the Blazers have been an elite rebounding team the past two years, and that's with a "poor" rebounding PF who ends up in the top 30 in rebounds both years.

Seems like an odd criticism of Aldridge, given the overall effectiveness of the team in terms of overall rebounding.

We only averaged 2.1 more rebounds per game than our opponents. That's not an elite rebounding team.

It's not like he has to be a great rebounder to be a good player. I'm not sure why you're crusading against people who think he's not very good at rebounding.

 

[THE HCP]

9.4 pts/ 6.2 rebs!

 

[hasoos]

What is an "elite level" player?

Aldridge was 31st in scoring, and 23rd in rebounding.

Really? Are you sure about that?

How about scoring? That number is 38th.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...itScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=



http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...itScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Looked like 34th to me.

In case you haven't been paying attention, in order to be an all star level power forward, you usually have to be top 3 in your conference, minimum. Last time I looked, both teams that made the finals had an all star level power forward performing on their team. Not a 7th to 8th best in the western conference alone.

We have already been over this. If you went through the listings of Western Conference Power Forwards from last year, the highest he could have possibily been rated was 6th in this conference alone. That doesn't even consider the whole league, and to top it off, there are other players who are comparable to what he brings to the table. Every single one of those power forwards listed ahead of him (Gasol, Boozer, Nowitzki, Stoudemire, Duncan) make the playoffs every year. That means against those teams you are going into the game at a disadvantage. When the difference is 2 to 4 rebounds per game, that is 2 to 4 more possessions per game that the other team gets to try to score. When you are playing in games decided by a point, that is huge.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

LaMarcus's rebounding does not correlate to wins strongly; in fact, when he gets 9+ total rebounds in a game (31 times last season), the Blazers were 18-13 (.580) -- below their winning average of .610. When he gets 10+ rebounds, it goes up slightly (.583) but really, there's no strong indicator that LMA getting more rebounds actually helps the team win more.

What does seem to correlate strongly is Field Goals made, regardless of percentage. If LMA hits 8 or more shots in a game (this happened 39 times), the Blazers were 27-12 (.692). This is the second-strongest correlation.

Of course, the better he shoots, the better the Blazers do: 37 times he shot .500 or better, and the Blazers went 28-9 (.756). This is the strongest correlation of LMA's game to Blazer wins.

But the FGM stat being the #2 correlation surprised me, until I remembered that Roy's AST stats were also a strong correlation, about as strong as LMA's FGM correlation. I can't know, but I wonder if Roy-to-LaMarcus assists are the key here.

Regardless, you hear "LMA hits 8 shots" and "Blazers win!" in the same sentence much more than "LMA grabs 10 rebounds" and "Blazers win!".