Is Andrew Bynum a dirty player?

[ucatchtrout]

Is Andrew Bynum a dirty player? You make the call. He threw an elbow at Gerald Wallace as Wallace was driving to the basket, and in the video you can see Wallace writhing on the court in pain after getting hit.

Wallace hospitalized for possible collapsed lung
By Rick Bonnell
rbonnell@charlotteobserver.com
Posted: Wednesday, Jan. 28, 2009
LOS ANGELES

Charlotte Bobcats forward Gerald Wallace has been taken to a Los Angeles hospital where he will likely spend the night while being tested for a possible collapsed lung and fractured rib.

Wallace was taken to Centinela Hospital to have a CT scan to check for a collapsed lung. An X-ray at Staples Center indicated no fracture, but as a precaution, Wallace was to have a second X-ray at the hospital.

Wallace was injured in the fourth quarter of the Bobcats' double-overtime victory over the Lakers when center Andrew Bynum hip-checked Wallace to the floor on a drive to the basket. Bynum was called for a flagrant foul, and Wallace had to be helped to the locker room by teammates.

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[ToddMacCulloch11]

Has he injured other players with something along these lines?

I haven't watched the video (youtube is blocked at work)...maybe it's a dirty play, but if this is the first time, I wouldn't call him a dirty player

 

[NJNetz]

Looks to me like he was just trying to prevent a basket. It just happened to turn out worse than it should of been.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I hate all Lakers, and Bynum more than most. But this is no evidence that he's a dirty player. I don't see any intent to hurt. He was out of position and Wallace moved faster than Bynum thought he would. I even get the impression that Bynum felt bad immediately afterwards. He didn't do the turning-his-back and walking-way thing that NBA players seem to do when they've intentionally taken someone out.

 

[Foulzilla]

I don't think he was intentionally injuring him, I think he just meant to give a hard foul. Was certainly a flagrant, but I think dirty implies intent to injure. I also don't recall Bynum doing things like this in the past, so am willing to assume the best at this point. Real shame for Wallace however, hope it's not as bad as it sounds.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

All Laker players and fans are dirty!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[blue32]

All Laker players and fans are dirty!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed! Sorry DaRizzzzzzzle

or have you converted?

 

[Nikolokolus]

give me a break. Bynum definitely delivered a hard foul, and was certainly a flagrant 1, but it was hardly a dirty play, just unfortunate in the results ... hell I'd be thrilled if Greg delivered a few licks like that once in awhile (sort of like he did to Ray Allen). -- minus the collapsed lung and broken ribs of course

 

[drexlersdad]

no dirtier than any other tough center, he gave a hard foul.

 

[Jayps15]

It was Bynum's wrapping up of Greg Oden in the season opener that lead to his foot injury, another play where he was beat and instead of going for the ball he just went after the player's body. Both plays were borderline dirty, and if he keeps injuring other players I hope the league hands down a fine/suspension that will get him to pull his head out of his ass. I think 1 game and a hefty fine for the hit on Wallace is enough for now though.

 

[blue32]

^^ 5 games minimum!

 

[RoyToy]

Not even close.

 

[NJNetz]

he keeps injuring other players I hope the league hands down a fine/suspension that will get him to pull his head out of his ass.

How often has Bowen been suspended or fined?

 

[noknobs]

I don't know. I watched the game and specifically remember the Lakers (Kobe & Bynum in particular) looking a little 'annoyed' directly before this foul occurred. I'd say emotions were running high. Since it's an isolated incident I won't label him a dirty player, but it was most certaintly a dirty play and he had some intentions behind it, but I don't think he was trying to hurt him as bad as he did. Doesn't matter, it was still dirty.

 

[B-Roy]

It was Bynum's wrapping up of Greg Oden in the season opener that lead to his foot injury, another play where he was beat and instead of going for the ball he just went after the player's body. Both plays were borderline dirty, and if he keeps injuring other players I hope the league hands down a fine/suspension that will get him to pull his head out of his ass. I think 1 game and a hefty fine for the hit on Wallace is enough for now though.

Oden fell on Fisher's foot.

Bynum is not a dirty player, and they weren't dirty plays. He was just trying to prevent a basket with a hard foul, something that all centers do from time to time. I guess Greg Oden's wrap up foul on Ray Allen was also borderline dirty, eh?

It's just unfortunate that players got hurt on these specific plays. Bynum definitely deserved the flagrant though.

 

[hasoos]

No, a dirty play is like when Kevin Love looked straight at a guy and then drove his elbow through his face. That is a dirty play.

 

[blue32]

ahh you guys are probably right; hell if the roles were reversed and oden was the person that chucked that elbow into GW's side I'd probably tell GW to grow a set. BUT, these are the Lakers were talking about fella's, they are our nemesis, our rivals, our most hated opponents....

 

[Jayps15]

Oden fell on Fisher's foot.

Bynum is not a dirty player, and they weren't dirty plays. He was just trying to prevent a basket with a hard foul, something that all centers do from time to time. I guess Greg Oden's wrap up foul on Ray Allen was also borderline dirty, eh?

It's just unfortunate that players got hurt on these specific plays.

Oden wasn't anywhere near falling on Fisher's foot when he came down with that offensive rebound against the Lakers, then instead of trying to block or defend Oden's shot Bynum wrapped him up and dragged Oden to the floor from behind, it was when Oden was stumbling/falling backwards that he stepped on Fisher's foot and was injured.

And Oden's foul on Ray Allen was not only just a bump with his body that Allen exaggerated, but it was also a legitimate basketball play. He was trying to stop Allen from driving baseline and he was moving his feet with his hands in the air, he didn't elbow him or wrap him up and tackle him.

 

[DaRizzle]

Is Andrew Bynum a dirty player? You make the call. He threw an elbow at Gerald Wallace

Sounds like you made up your mind...

 

[B-Roy]

Oden wasn't anywhere near falling on Fisher's foot when he came down with that offensive rebound against the Lakers, then instead of trying to block or defend Oden's shot Bynum wrapped him up and dragged Oden to the floor from behind, it was when Oden was stumbling/falling backwards that he stepped on Fisher's foot and was injured.

And Oden's foul on Ray Allen was not only just a bump with his body that Allen exaggerated, but it was also a legitimate basketball play. He was trying to stop Allen from driving baseline and he was moving his feet with his hands in the air, he didn't elbow him or wrap him up and tackle him.

Oden had the ball, and was going to put it in the basket. Bynum couldn't stop him, so he fouled him. Are you seriously trying to argue that Bynum wanted to injure Oden?

And Oden's foul on Allen was, in essence the same as the Bynum foul on Oden. Oden realized he was beat on the play, so he wanted to get his money's worth with his foul (he even admitted this), which is why he wrapped up Allen and wouldn't give him the continuation.

Your post just seems to be filled with biased Laker hate. If you honestly think that Bynum was TRYING to injure ANY of the players he fouled, then I have nothing more to say to you.

 

[DaRizzle]

Your post just seems to be filled with biased Laker hate. If you honestly think that Bynum was TRYING to injure ANY of the players he fouled, then I have nothing more to say to you.

I can feel the confusion in you

Join the darkside! You will be celebrating a 'ship by the end of the year!

I have special authorization to let you become a Lakers fan and NOT be called a bandwagoner even though half the season is done!

 

[Mediocre Man]

No he's not a dirty player, and I hate Vagynum. he delivered a hard foul to a player attacking the rim. The only reason a lot of you think it's dirty is because Portland is soft and never does that.

 

[B-Roy]

I can feel the confusion in you

Join the darkside! You will be celebrating a 'ship by the end of the year!

I have special authorization to let you become a Lakers fan and NOT be called a bandwagoner even though half the season is done!

Thanks for the offer, but the Blazers are on the verge of willing 10 more championships. I think I'll stay with the winning team.

I was just trying to see the Bynum issue as an objective bystander.

 

[noknobs]

No, a dirty play is like when Kevin Love looked straight at a guy and then drove his elbow through his face. That is a dirty play.

Oh, see I think it's a dirty play when you slide into a guy who's jumping into the air extended, and is therefore at his most vulnerable, make no attempt at the ball (even though he was in position to do so), and instead turn your elbow into him so hard that he's hospitalized. I guess we all have our own definition.

Usually when players commit boring ol' 'hard fouls' they don't lead with their elbow.

 

[B-Roy]

Oh, see I think it's a dirty play when you slide into a guy who's jumping into the air extended, and is therefore at his most vulnerable, make no attempt at the ball (even though he was in position to do so), and instead turn your elbow into him so hard that he's hospitalized. I guess we all have our own definition.

Usually when players commit boring ol' 'hard fouls' they don't lead with their elbow.

I think Wallace was faster than Bynum had anticipated, and so he was late coming over to help on the drive. He had no choice but to deliver the hard foul. The elbow looked unintentional. Wallace was too fast on the play and Bynum wasn't in a good position to foul. Thus the contact. I doubt Bynum wanted to elbow Wallace, and I also doubt that he knew the consequences of the foul.

 

[DaRizzle]

Usually when players commit boring ol' 'hard fouls' they don't lead with their elbow.

Bynum didnt "lead" with anything. He put his arms up to give an intentional hard foul.

....the arm bone's connected to the elbow bone...

...it was just bad timing on both players fault....no Im not saying this is partially Geralds fault....shit happens

 

[Jayps15]

Oden had the ball, and was going to put it in the basket. Bynum couldn't stop him, so he fouled him. Are you seriously trying to argue that Bynum wanted to injure Oden?

And Oden's foul on Allen was, in essence the same as the Bynum foul on Oden. Oden realized he was beat on the play, so he wanted to get his money's worth with his foul (he even admitted this), which is why he wrapped up Allen and wouldn't give him the continuation.

Your post just seems to be filled with biased Laker hate. If you honestly think that Bynum was TRYING to injure ANY of the players he fouled, then I have nothing more to say to you.

Your putting words in my mouth/misinterpretting what I wrote, I said both instances were borderline dirty and that he clearly didn't go after the ball in either situation, but I never said he intentionally caused either injury. I think Bynum was genuinely concerned for Wallace after the play, I'm certainly not saying he's a thug or anything.

But at least on these 2 occasions he's been beat by the offensive player and instead of at least trying to make a play for the ball he's instead gone after the other players body in a way that has lead to injuries, and if this continues to happen I think that the league needs to let him and the rest of the players know that this isn't how your supposed to play the game. It's a pattern of behavior that's caused at least 2 injuries and whether they were intentional or not (and I am firmly in the not intentional group), that needs to stop.



Also, while Oden's foul on Allen was not the same as Bynum's, if it had seriously injured Allen I would be at the very least be calling for a hefty fine on Oden and calling it a borderline dirty play. It would have been the 1st offense, and like Bynum's foul on Oden probably not suspension worthy, but if Greg was to continue on with a pattern of behavior that was to cause other players injuries (intentional or not) then he would need to be disciplined by the league also.

 

[noknobs]

Bynum didnt "lead" with anything. He put his arms up to give an intentional hard foul.

....the arm bone's connected to the elbow bone...

...it was just bad timing on both players fault....no Im not saying this is partially Geralds fault....shit happens

The OP has a clip. Pause it at 28 seconds. He leads with the elbow... This isn't rocket science. Bynum is either incredible uncoordinated (as talented as he is I'm thinking no) or he simply committed a dirty play.

It's funny how many in this thread can admit is was a flagrant, but can't bring themselves to call the play 'dirty' because it's such a dirty word. Most flagrants are dirty, this is one of them. Hell, I think some of you need to look up the definition of 'flagrant', that might sort some things out for you.

I got nothing against Bynum, of everyone on the team he's about my least hated, I just think he got wrapped up in the game and put a little too much into the foul and a guy got hurt. It happens. It's still dirty.

 

[DaRizzle]

It's funny how many in this thread can admit is was a flagrant, but can't bring themselves to call the play 'dirty' because it's such a dirty word. Most flagrants are dirty, this is one of them.

Actually Ive discussed flagrant fouls many times before and read the ACTUAL rulebook about them.

When deciding is a foul was flagrant or not intent has NOTHING to do with the determination.

Section IV--Flagrant Foul
a. If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpreted to be unnecessary, a flagrant foul--penalty (1) will be assessed. A personal foul is charged to the offender and a team foul is charged to the team.
PENALTY: (1) Two free throws shall be attempted and the ball awarded to the offended team on either side of the court at the free throw line extended. (2) If the offended player is injured and unable to attempt his free throws, the opposing coach will select any player from the bench to attempt the free throws. (3) This substitute may not be replaced until the ball is legally touched by a player on the court. (EXCEPTION: Rule 3--Section V--e.) (4) The injured player may not return to the game. (5) A player will be ejected if he commits two flagrant fouls in the same game.
b. If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpret-ed to be unnecessary and excessive, a flagrant foul--penalty (2) will be assessed. A personal foul is charged to the offender and a team foul is charged to the team.
PENALTY: (1) Two free throws shall be attempted and the ball awarded to the offended team on either side of the court at the free throw line extended. (2) If the offended player is injured and unable to attempt his free throws, his coach will select a substitute and any player from the team is eligible to attempt the free throws. (3) This substitute may not be replaced until the ball is legally touched by a player on the court. EXCEPTION: Rule 3--Section V--e. (4) The injured player may return to the game at any time after the free throws are attempted. (5) This is an unsports-manlike act and the offender is ejected.
c. A flagrant foul may be assessed whether the ball is dead or alive.

 

[B-Roy]

Also, while Oden's foul on Allen was not the same as Bynum's, if it had seriously injured Allen I would be at the very least be calling for a hefty fine on Oden and calling it a borderline dirty play. It would have been the 1st offense, and like Bynum's foul on Oden probably not suspension worthy, but if Greg was to continue on with a pattern of behavior that was to cause other players injuries (intentional or not) then he would need to be disciplined by the league also.

They are the same. Both realized they were beat on the play, and wanted to get their money's worth. Oden even admitted this. I don't understand the difference between Bynum holding Oden and Oden holding Allen.

Also, the type of play should determine whether or not a foul was dirty or not. I mean, an accidental trip could cause a major injury, but you wouldn't call the trip foul a dirty play would you?