Is Andrew Bynum a dirty player?

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DaRizzle said:
Actually Ive discussed flagrant fouls many times before and read the ACTUAL rulebook about them.

When deciding is a foul was flagrant or not intent has NOTHING to do with the determination.
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Which is why I never said it did.
 
I'm so old I remember when players didn't intentially foul because they were too lazy to play D. Yeah... there were a lot of hard stuff on rebounds... but now fouls are used to cover up bad D when you are beat.
 
noknobs said:
Oh, see I think it's a dirty play when you slide into a guy who's jumping into the air extended, and is therefore at his most vulnerable, make no attempt at the ball (even though he was in position to do so), and instead turn your elbow into him so hard that he's hospitalized. I guess we all have our own definition.

Usually when players commit boring ol' 'hard fouls' they don't lead with their elbow.
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I think Bynum was trying to get both arms extended across Wallace's body but wasn't quick enough reacting to get his right arm fully extended, he had his back to the drive initially and had to turn and extend which I think led to his right elbow catching Wallace, I don't agree that he was in a position to make a play on the ball. He looked like he was just trying to catch Wallace and wrap him up so he'd have to earn those points at the line instead of getting an easy 2 or a chance at an and1.
 
Jayps15 said:
I think Bynum was trying to get both arms extended across Wallace's body but wasn't quick enough reacting to get his right arm fully extended, he had his back to the drive initially and had to turn and extend which I think led to his right elbow catching Wallace, I don't agree that he was in a position to make a play on the ball. He looked like he was just trying to catch Wallace and wrap him up so he'd have to earn those points at the line instead of getting an easy 2 or a chance at an and1.
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Exactly...very good summary
 
i don't think he's a dirty player (actually I think he's still somewhat soft at times), but that was a dirty play................dirty plays happen from time to time in the heat of the moment..................get well soon G. Wallace........
 
Stupid play by Bynum, although I don't consider him a dirty player. I think he should be fined and maybe suspended for a game just for the lesson's sake, but I don't think one play should shape my opinion of him.
 
Jayps15 said:
I think Bynum was trying to get both arms extended across Wallace's body but wasn't quick enough reacting to get his right arm fully extended, he had his back to the drive initially and had to turn and extend which I think led to his right elbow catching Wallace, I don't agree that he was in a position to make a play on the ball. He looked like he was just trying to catch Wallace and wrap him up so he'd have to earn those points at the line instead of getting an easy 2 or a chance at an and1.
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LOL....

He NEVER had his back to the drive, initially or otherwise... have you even watched the play??? He was watching the entire time, and you can clearly see him in position a step ahead of Wallace at about the 4 second mark.

DaRizzle said:
Well when you are giving people shit for not wanting to call it "dirty" after they agree it was a flagrant it sure sounds like you are
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What part of excessive and unneccesary doesn't sound 'dirty' to you? I guess, as I've already admitted, I must just have a different interpretation of 'dirty' than some of you. We can both agree he's not a dirty player though.
 
What part of excessive and unneccesary doesn't sound 'dirty'
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The words excessive and unneccasary...those words arent relaying INTENT...dirty does
 
B-Roy said:
They are the same. Both realized they were beat on the play, and wanted to get their money's worth. Oden even admitted this. I don't understand the difference between Bynum holding Oden and Oden holding Allen.

Also, the type of play should determine whether or not a foul was dirty or not. I mean, an accidental trip could cause a major injury, but you wouldn't call the trip foul a dirty play would you?
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Oden didn't hold Allen, he bumped him out of bounds with his body while he was trying to slide and cut off a baseline drive. The initial whistle was for a handchecking foul because instead of having both arms out and only using his body while sliding his feet, Oden brought his left hand in and placed it on Allen's body. The getting his money's worth came when Oden raised his right arm and caught Allen on the chin with his right bicep.

The distinction I make is between the intent on commiting the foul, not on the intent on causing injury. To my eyes Oden was trying to slide and cut of a drive, not ram into Allen to prevent an easy bucket, it was Oden's foul proneness that caused the foul. But on both Bynum fouls I feel he intentionally fouled both players to prevent an easy basket, and that whether or not he intended on injuring the other player (again I don't believe he did) that simply commiting an intentional foul that leads to an injury needs to be disciplined.


I agree that the type of play should determine whether or not a foul is dirty/borderline and whether it deserves a fine/suspension, but not necessarily with your examples. If it's an accidental trip like if someone came down with a rebound, or 2 guys were running after a loose ball and got tangled up then no I don't think it was dirty even if someone does get injured. But if someone intentionally sticks their leg out as a guy comes around a screen, or puts a foot under someone coming down with a rebound/after a shoot (the Bruce Bowen special) then I think that does deserve league discipline.
 
The video in the OP isnt there anymore

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It was done out of frustration by Bynum. The Bobcats and Wallace specifically was making Bynum their bitch in the paint and Bynum got frustrated and gave him a nice little elbow. I miss watching the old NBA where this wouldn't have even been an issue. Anybody remember Jordan Rules?

That said, I hate the Lakers. The league should suspend Bynum for the season.
 
Jayps15 said:
The distinction I make is between the intent on commiting the foul, not on the intent on causing injury. To my eyes Oden was trying to slide and cut of a drive, not ram into Allen to prevent an easy bucket, it was Oden's foul proneness that caused the foul. But on both Bynum fouls I feel he intentionally fouled both players to prevent an easy basket, and that whether or not he intended on injuring the other player (again I don't believe he did) that simply commiting an intentional foul that leads to an injury needs to be disciplined.
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It was not Oden's foul proneness at all. Oden ADMITTED that he knew he had to foul Allen. It was INTENTIONAL. Just like Bynum's fouls.
 
Um, no.

It didn't look like he intended to hurt anyone to me. He is just a load of a dude. Oden could easily do the same accidentally, and I don't think anyone here would say he was dirty if it happened like that.

Too bad for GW, tho.
 
Is that play dirty? Maybe. I think almost certainly not, but maybe.

Even if that play is dirty, though, does that make Bynum a dirty player? I don't think so. Even coupling it with the play where Oden got hurt... there's just not a track record substantial enough to support calling Bynum dirty.

And I say this as the owner of Gerald Wallace on my (currently first place in a 14 team league) fantasty basketball team...

Ed O.
 
And I say this as the owner of Gerald Wallace on my (currently first place in a 14 team league) fantasty basketball team...
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Ugh...thats a bitch...Is it for money?
 
RayDavies said:
Um, no.

It didn't look like he intended to hurt anyone to me. He is just a load of a dude. Oden could easily do the same accidentally, and I don't think anyone here would say he was dirty if it happened like that.

Too bad for GW, tho.
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Yeah, but it's a lot more fun to argue with Darizzle for one simple reason. It means more of Jessica Alba's ass... Oh, now I've said too much.
 
Definitely a dirty play. Simply put, he wasn't playing basketball. If players made that type of play even 1/3 of the time, there would be few dunks by swing men.

Is he a dirty player? Not enough evidence, yet.
 
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Look, giving the benefit of the doubt that it WAS a dirty play (stay with me here)...

Chris Paul punched a dude in the nuts on National TV. No ifs, ands or buts about it. And I don't hear a peep about CP3 being a "dirty player".
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As much as I hate the L*kers, I'm fine saying it was a flagrant foul in the heat of a close game. 10k or so, maybe a game if they want to send a message...whatever. Bynum's on probation in my book to see if he turns into a Bowen-type cheap-shotter. But calling him "dirty" after the hit on Wallace? Can't say it.
 
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Of course Andrew Bynum didn’t mean to hurt Gerald Wallace when he elbowed him in the ribs. Anyone who has spent time around the Lakers center knows he comes off as a genuinely nice guy.

That comes through with his actions following the Tuesday’s game. According to Charlotte coach Larry Brown, Bynum sought out Wallace, who by then was headed to the hospital with a dislocated rib and collapsed lung.

“That kid waited at our bus, trying to get to Gerald, and he apologized to me,’’ Brown said. “If he had a history of that (rough play), I might feel different, but I just think it was a hard foul.”

That’s probably not enough to save Bynum from discipline by the league office. The NBA routinely reviews flagrant fouls and then determines whether the foul upgraded Flagrant-2 Foul and the player suspended.
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LINK

Stay classy Bynum :cheers:
 
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