Is building a contender realistic?

[Boise Blazer]

In today's NBA the majority of the past NBA champions have had some verision of a big three. Many of those have happened through trades. Is building a contender even realistic nowadays? Are the teams building through the draft to be playoff makers and not champions? Would you rather be competitive for 5 years or take a run at one championship even if it set you back a few years?

 

[magnifier661]

I think we already have a big 2; which I believe is enough in even today's nba. I think what we need are specialists and a good team concept on the defensive end. With that, I think we need this:

1.) That defensive anchor/rim protector.

2.) We need the wing that can help get to the line. A Maggette type player.

3.) We need another defensive wing specialist like a Ruben Patterson.

4.) We need a bruiser/enforcer

5.) We need a good team defense philosophy.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I always enjoyed our playoff teams, even when we were going down in the first round 6 consecutive years.

I'd rather root for the Braves and be excellent for 15 years and not win a title (yes, I know they won 1, but they were disappointed more often than not), than be a Marlins fan, seeing 20 years of suckage surrounding two anomalous title teams.

 

[KingSpeed]

I would rather win the titles. And we already have a great relatively young Big Three. An improving Aldridge/Batum/Lillard and the right pieces around them can win a title in the next three years. Believe Harder.

 

[Mediocre Man]

You win championships one of two ways.

1. have at least one player in the top 5 of all NBA

2.Have at least two players in the top 5 at their position and at least two all NBA defenders on your team


STEP 1: Acquire a Championship Superstar
Approach #1: Acquire a Top 5 caliber player
Only two NBA Champions failed to include a player named to the All-NBA first team during their careers. These players are easy to identify as all but 4 NBA championship teams included players named All-NBA 1st Team in the prior four seasons.

Approach #2: If you fail to acquire a Top 5 caliber player, then you need a Top 5 caliber defender.
Only two NBA Champions failed to include a player named to the All-Defensive first team during their careers, and each of these teams included Top 5 Players.

Approach #3: Clear salary cap space for next year.
No NBA team has won a championship without a Top 5 player or Top 5 defender.



STEP 2: Add a championship sidekick (or two)
Every NBA championship roster included a Top 10 caliber player or Top 10 defender as a sidekick. Most championship sidekicks can be identified by looking at players named All-NBA 1st or 2nd Team or All-Defensive 1st or 2nd Team in one of the prior 4 seasons. All told, 86% of all championship rosters included at least one sidekick with a previous All-NBA or All-Defensive selection, and over half of the championship rosters (57%) included 2 or more sidekicks with a previous All-NBA or All-Defensive selection.



STEP 3: Make sure one of your players (superstar or sidekick) can defend
No team has won an NBA title without a Top 10 caliber defender.

 

[magnifier661]

You win championships one of two ways.

1. have at least one player in the top 5 of all NBA

2.Have at least two players in the top 5 at their position and at least two all NBA defenders on your team


STEP 1: Acquire a Championship Superstar
Approach #1: Acquire a Top 5 caliber player
Only two NBA Champions failed to include a player named to the All-NBA first team during their careers. These players are easy to identify as all but 4 NBA championship teams included players named All-NBA 1st Team in the prior four seasons.

Approach #2: If you fail to acquire a Top 5 caliber player, then you need a Top 5 caliber defender.
Only two NBA Champions failed to include a player named to the All-Defensive first team during their careers, and each of these teams included Top 5 Players.

Approach #3: Clear salary cap space for next year.
No NBA team has won a championship without a Top 5 player or Top 5 defender.



STEP 2: Add a championship sidekick (or two)
Every NBA championship roster included a Top 10 caliber player or Top 10 defender as a sidekick. Most championship sidekicks can be identified by looking at players named All-NBA 1st or 2nd Team or All-Defensive 1st or 2nd Team in one of the prior 4 seasons. All told, 86% of all championship rosters included at least one sidekick with a previous All-NBA or All-Defensive selection, and over half of the championship rosters (57%) included 2 or more sidekicks with a previous All-NBA or All-Defensive selection.



STEP 3: Make sure one of your players (superstar or sidekick) can defend
No team has won an NBA title without a Top 10 caliber defender.

You forgot to mention having the ability to have a half court scorer, mainly low post player. I can only think of one team that didn't have one of those (Miami) in the last 20 years.

 

[Mediocre Man]

You forgot to mention having the ability to have a half court scorer, mainly low post player. I can only think of one team that didn't have one of those (Miami) in the last 20 years.

No, I did not forget that. Even though it' snot necessary, I prefer it as well. I think just having someone down there to keep the defense honest is good enough.

 

[BBert]

You win championships one of two ways....

Well, based on this blue print, I'd say we are so close to a championship that I may as well move to Guatemala and start raising chickens.

Kidding aside, I think LaMarcus will never be top 5, but he should make a right fine side-kick when he's not asked to be the No. 1. I think Batum will be pretty close to a sidekick, but maybe just a damn fine role playing glue guy. A championship team needs one of those also and I'd keep him.

It's easy for fans to bestow visions of grandeur upon Lillard after his rookie campaign, but top 5 in the league? I'm not comfortable putting those kinds of expectations on him.

I doubt Lillard will ever be a defensive stopper. LaMarcus and Batum can be pretty good defenders, but none of them meet the defensive criteria listed.

IMO we need to start with defense, at the center position and at the wing. We need to go for broke in the draft, trades and free agency trying to find elite defenders, and with good scouting and a lot of luck we may stumble onto one or two.

Who are the best defenders among this year's draft class, at SG, SF and Center?

(I realize this conversation opens the door for the Trade LaMarcus Scenario, but I just don't think Paul Allen is going to do that.)

 

[BBert]

I'll add that it seems to me great defenders are undervalued in the draft, so there is some hope, but only if that were the primary objective of The Olshey Gang. It's probably not.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Last 6 NBA Champion's Opponent's FG% rank:

2012 MIA 5th
2011 DAL 8th
2010 LAL 5th
2009 LAL 6th
2008 BOS 7th
2007 SAS 4th

 

[Mediocre Man]

Remember


92% of NBA Champions had a recent All-NBA 1st Team Selection
81% of NBA Champions had a recent All-Defensive 1st Team Selection
92% of NBA Champions had a Player Ranked in the Top 8 in Efficiency the Preceding Season

So that's what we need. Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to find those players.

Can we draft one that has the ability to get there?
Can we trade for one?
Can we sign one?

Seems to me we should be throwing our money and/or assets at the likes of

Tony Allen
Joakim Noah
Serge Ibaka
Tyson Chandler

Or
Avery Bradley
Rajon Rondo

 

[BBert]

Portland did not have a problem scoring last year. Their problem was defense and a bench that couldn't beat a YMCA team. I find mediocre man's arguments to be compelling, as far as putting our resources into targeting a couple of elite defenders.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Some more examples

Bill Walton all defensive first team 76-77
Buck Williams all defensive first team 89-91 second team in 92
Scottie Pippen all defensive second team 99-00

Not so coincidentally, we either won, played in, or contended for the championship at those times.

It's almost like it's some big secret that teams forget about.

 

[KingSpeed]

Did the 2011 Dallas team fulfill these requirements? Yes, Dirk looked like #1 in the league IN the playoffs. But did anyone consider him #1 BEFORE the playoffs. My point being, sometimes such labels are earned IN the playoffs, not before. So it's hard to label players in advance. Most people thought Dirk would never win a title and it was futile for Dallas to keep on building around him. Such could be the same about Aldridge. Wait until he gets in the playoffs with the right players around him and EARNS the status of best big man in the league. He's close now, in my opinion.

 

[BBert]

Serious question for you college hoops gurus:

Who are the top three defenders, in terms of being or becoming great NBA defenders, in this year's draft at each of these positions:

Center:

SG:

SF:

??

 

[Mediocre Man]

Portland did not have a problem scoring last year. Their problem was defense and a bench that couldn't beat a YMCA team. I find mediocre man's arguments to be compelling, as far as putting our resources into targeting a couple of elite defenders.

Compelling? They are fucking brilliant. It's the Avastin I tell you. It's making me as smart as I am good looking. Instead of as dumb as a dishrag with buttons

 

[Nikolokolus]

It's a combo, but without good drafting you never get the pieces you need to move them in trades for the players that will put you over the top.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Did the 2011 Dallas team fulfill these requirements? Yes, Dirk looked like #1 in the league IN the playoffs. But did anyone consider him #1 BEFORE the playoffs. My point being, sometimes such labels are earned IN the playoffs, not before. So it's hard to label players in advance. Most people thought Dirk would never win a title and it was futile for Dallas to keep on building around him. Such could be the same about Aldridge. Wait until he gets in the playoffs with the right players around him and EARNS the status of best big man in the league. He's close now, in my opinion.

Tyson Chandler All nba defensive 2nd team 10-11
Dirk ALL NBA
00-01 3rd team
01-02 2nd team
02-03 2nd team
03-04 3rd team
04-05 1st team
05-06 1st team
06-07 1st team
07-08 2nd team
08-09 1st team
09-10 2nd team
10-11 2nd team


Ya man, who was that Dirk guy? he came out of nowhere!!!!!!!

Don't make me say learn the game, then post. You are better than that, Eric

 

[BBert]

Compelling? They are fucking brilliant. It's the Avastin I tell you. It's making me as smart as I am good looking. Instead of as dumb as a dishrag with buttons

Avastin is making you smart AND good looking? Can you get me some of that?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Avastin is making you smart AND good looking? Can you get me some of that?

You don't want it, I promise

 

[KingSpeed]

Tyson Chandler All nba defensive 2nd team 10-11
Dirk ALL NBA
00-01 3rd team
01-02 2nd team
02-03 2nd team
03-04 3rd team
04-05 1st team
05-06 1st team
06-07 1st team
07-08 2nd team
08-09 1st team
09-10 2nd team
10-11 2nd team


Ya man, who was that Dirk guy? he came out of nowhere!!!!!!!

Don't make me say learn the game, then post. You are better than that, Eric

Going into those playoffs, NO ONE considered Dirk to be a top 5 player in the league. And no one has considered him to be a top five player since then. These are facts and you can't dispute them. Look up MVP voting for that year. They had just lost in first round the year before. Most people predicted the Blazers would beat them in the first round. Everything I've said has been correct. I never said Tyson Chandler wasn't a good defender so I don't know why you brought that up. Also- Dallas didn't have another decent scorer to start with Dirk. Dirk was the only All Star on that team.

Learn the English language, basic logic, and the game, and THEN post. Geesh.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Going into those playoffs, NO ONE considered Dirk to be a top 5 player in the league. And no one has considered him to be a top five player since then. These are facts and you can't dispute them. Look up MVP voting for that year. They had just lost in first round the year before. Most people predicted the Blazers would beat them in the first round. Everything I've said has been correct. I never said Tyson Chandler wasn't a good defender so I don't know why you brought that up. Also- Dallas didn't have another decent scorer to start with Dirk. Dirk was the only All Star on that team.

Learn the English language, basic logic, and the game, and THEN post. Geesh.

You questioned the formula, and I and it proved you wrong. You asked

Did the 2011 Dallas team fulfill these requirements?

Yes, they did. like 90ish% of all other NBA champions.

 

[Wheels]

Going into those playoffs, NO ONE considered Dirk to be a top 5 player in the league.

2009 Bleacher Report top 10 NBA players list (So before the season, let alone playoffs)

And no one has considered him to be a top five player since then.

#5 On Espn Top 100 NBA Players (List made AFTER Season which Mav's Won Championship

These are facts and you can't dispute them.

fact [fakt] Show IPA
noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth
2. something known to exist or to have happened
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:

Learn the English language, basic logic, and the game, and THEN post. Geesh.

indeed

 

[Wizard Mentor]

SG: Oladipo

Serious question for you college hoops gurus:

Who are the top three defenders, in terms of being or becoming great NBA defenders, in this year's draft at each of these positions:

Center:

SG:

SF:

??

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Avastin is making you smart AND good looking? Can you get me some of that?

Sounds like a drug to cure piracy.

 

[BBert]

Sounds like a drug to cure piracy.

Is it talk like a pirate day already?

Avast! Master Caravan. Ye best be treadin' lightly this mornin'. And pass t' grog. Arrr.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Is it talk like a pirate day already?

Avast! Master Caravan. Ye best be treadin' lightly this mornin'. And pass t' grog. Arrr.

Better, it's National doughnut day

 

[MARIS61]

The poll doesn't have a choice for Loosen the Purse-strings, so I voted other.

To actually contend within 2-3 years will take a lot of money, deep into the luxury tax penalty area. That or several quick miracles. Any plan longer than 3 years is doomed to failure from unforeseen changes, injuries, arrests...

We know PA has the dough, I guess he doesn't really have much passion for winning.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The poll doesn't have a choice for Loosen the Purse-strings, so I voted other.

To actually contend within 2-3 years will take a lot of money, deep into the luxury tax penalty area. That or several quick miracles. Any plan longer than 3 years is doomed to failure from unforeseen changes, injuries, arrests...

We know PA has the dough, I guess he doesn't really have much passion for winning.

Give us a scenario where Paul could buy us into contention. The rules are kind of set up to prevent that so I am wondering what you are suggesting. Because if it is possible I say we send it on to him. He would probably do it.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Give us a scenario where Paul could buy us into contention. The rules are kind of set up to prevent that so I am wondering what you are suggesting. Because if it is possible I say we send it on to him. He would probably do it.

Agreed. Brooklyn will learn this.