Is Christianity a cult?

[Mediocre Man]

A cult by definition is something that does not adhere to the commonly held beliefs of a certain religion (i.e., Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses are cults), More importantly they were started at a particular time by a person (Joseph Smith, and Charles Taze Russell). They also have numerous rules and regulations and they will disfellowship anyone who disagrees with their errant doctrine. Christianity is a religion, not a cult.

There are no
Overly aggressive evangelization
False teaching: Hyperexclusivism
Brainwashing

CULT, CULTIC GROUP
Deceit in recruitment
Totalitarian
Destroys that family unit
Isolates its members
Keeps non-believers out
Limits development of individual
Exploits and manipulates its members with mind control techniques
Commitment is encouraged during recruitment process
Criticism is met with threats of legal action
Leader and follower consider leader to be above reproach
Questioning the leader, or basic tenets, is not allowed

RELIGION
Information offered up front
Allows freedom of thought and members have a say
Promotes the family unit
Works within society
Open to general community
Interested in promoting potential
While there are guidelines members are not systematically controlled
Thought before commitment is encouraged as part of conversion process
People are free to speak out against the tenets of a religion
Clergy are expected to be responsible for their words and actions
Critical thinking is allowed and sometimes even encouraged

 

[MarAzul]

I've read them. And they are the same as the other multitude of threads you've started for trolling purposes.

Actually Christianity is a philosophy. The various churches follow a religion, like the Catholic church is a religion or the the Anglican Church teaches a religion.

 

[Further]

A cult by definition is something that does not adhere to the commonly held beliefs of a certain religion (i.e., Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses are cults), More importantly they were started at a particular time by a person (Joseph Smith, and Charles Taze Russell). They also have numerous rules and regulations and they will disfellowship anyone who disagrees with their errant doctrine. Christianity is a religion, not a cult.

Nik pointed out some commonly held views of cults that were not in the definition, but that perhaps should be, and likewise yours might also be something that should be added to the definition. But according to all of the definitions I posted in the original thread, all from the M-Web dictionary, there is nothing in the definition that says "a cult is something that does not adhere to the commonly held beliefs of a certain religion.

There are no
Overly aggressive evangelization
False teaching: Hyperexclusivism
Brainwashing

There are certainly large groups of Christians that belong to churches that are overly aggressive in my mind, and most certainly have false teaching and brainwashing. Perhaps not all, and maybe not the majority, but many do.

I don't think it's totally clear cut. I think more that it is based on specific churches or regions.

 

[Nikolokolus]

A cult by definition is something that does not adhere to the commonly held beliefs of a certain religion (i.e., Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses are cults), More importantly they were started at a particular time by a person (Joseph Smith, and Charles Taze Russell). They also have numerous rules and regulations and they will disfellowship anyone who disagrees with their errant doctrine. Christianity is a religion, not a cult.

There are no
Overly aggressive evangelization
False teaching: Hyperexclusivism
Brainwashing

CULT, CULTIC GROUP
Deceit in recruitment
Totalitarian
Destroys that family unit
Isolates its members
Keeps non-believers out
Limits development of individual
Exploits and manipulates its members with mind control techniques
Commitment is encouraged during recruitment process
Criticism is met with threats of legal action
Leader and follower consider leader to be above reproach
Questioning the leader, or basic tenets, is not allowed

RELIGION
Information offered up front
Allows freedom of thought and members have a say
Promotes the family unit
Works within society
Open to general community
Interested in promoting potential
While there are guidelines members are not systematically controlled
Thought before commitment is encouraged as part of conversion process
People are free to speak out against the tenets of a religion
Clergy are expected to be responsible for their words and actions
Critical thinking is allowed and sometimes even encouraged

More concise and precise than what I came up with. I very much agree.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Nik pointed out some commonly held views of cults that were not in the definition, but that perhaps should be, and likewise yours might also be something that should be added to the definition. But according to all of the definitions I posted in the original thread, all from the M-Web dictionary, there is nothing in the definition that says "a cult is something that does not adhere to the commonly held beliefs of a certain religion.


There are certainly large groups of Christians that belong to churches that are overly aggressive in my mind, and most certainly have false teaching and brainwashing. Perhaps not all, and maybe not the majority, but many do.

I don't think it's totally clear cut. I think more that it is based on specific churches or regions.

Well that's the thing about language. The word "cult" is just a symbol used to represent an idea or concept. In this case I think the textbook definition is failing to account for what most people actually might mean when they use the word to describe a particular kind of religious group.

 

[Further]

Well that's the thing about language. The word "cult" is just a symbol used to represent an idea or concept. In this case I think the textbook definition is failing to account for what most people actually might mean when they use the word to describe a particular kind of religious group.

ya, the more that I read responses like yours and MM's, I agree. I think that too often we get locked into textbook definitions. Some things can be precisely defined, like a bridge or a wristwatch. But some things have far more intricacies than a definition can capture.

When I strip away the textbook definition of cult, and go upon my personal understanding of what a cult would be, I would say that Christianity is not a cult, but there are certainly subsets that are. If you ever watch Jesus camp, the indoctrination reminds me of a cult. Likewise some of the TV evangelists promise cures and require money and devotion as I would expect cults to do. So I guess the answer is just, sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the specifics of the situation.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

False. See my post with definitions above.




False. See my post with definitions above.



You've got to be kidding or trolling.

Go back and read my post with the definitions. It is completely logical and based on widely accepted definitions.

If you claim that there is no connection between atheism and cultists, but claim there is a connection between christians and cultists, you're being intellectually dishonest and won't take a logical, unbiased look at your own beliefs.

La dee doo da

 

[Further]

La dee doo da

He is just someone who feels that something close and important to him is being attacked. And, he is kind of right. We don't mean it in an aggressive way, just want to discuss the issues and hope that we can get others to understand our perspective, and maybe even give up on religion, but none the less, it is still a bit of an attack. I tried to explain that I was not just trolling, but trying to have a dialogue, but he simply didn't believe it. Oh well, perhaps one day he will see the light (atheism).

 

[MarAzul]

ya, the more that I read responses like yours and MM's, I agree. I think that too often we get locked into textbook definitions. Some things can be precisely defined, like a bridge or a wristwatch. But some things have far more intricacies than a definition can capture.

When I strip away the textbook definition of cult, and go upon my personal understanding of what a cult would be, I would say that Christianity is not a cult, but there are certainly subsets that are. If you ever watch Jesus camp, the indoctrination reminds me of a cult. Likewise some of the TV evangelists promise cures and require money and devotion as I would expect cults to do. So I guess the answer is just, sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the specifics of the situation.

There you go! Christianity is a philosophy, There are many Churches that practice a religion based upon the philosophy. There are also some that are more cult like and then there are some that are pure shysters passing the hat and then passing it again.

 

[Further]

There you go! Christianity is a philosophy, There are many Churches that practice a religion based upon the philosophy. There are also some that are more cult like and then there are some that are pure shysters passing the hat and then passing it again.

I don't agree that it's a philosophy, more that its an umbrella religion. Not going off of a definition, that was folly once in this thread. I would say a philosophy provides basic tenants of how to approach a subject, which could fit Christianity. But philosophy also does not require the belief in someone, especially someone unproven. Christianity as a whole might provide a scaffolding as a philosophy does, but it goes too far in that it requires specific thoughts and a set of beliefs. If you could subtract Christ from Christianity, I think it would be a philosophy, but once you have to believe that a specific person is a god, died, and came back for our sins, I think that goes far beyond philosophy. It just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

 

[D-Rock]

ya, the more that I read responses like yours and MM's, I agree. I think that too often we get locked into textbook definitions. Some things can be precisely defined, like a bridge or a wristwatch. But some things have far more intricacies than a definition can capture.

When I strip away the textbook definition of cult, and go upon my personal understanding of what a cult would be, I would say that Christianity is not a cult, but there are certainly subsets that are. If you ever watch Jesus camp, the indoctrination reminds me of a cult. Likewise some of the TV evangelists promise cures and require money and devotion as I would expect cults to do. So I guess the answer is just, sometimes yes, sometimes no, depends on the specifics of the situation.

So you're advocating for the redefining of the word? M-Web gives you the definition. People are attaching there own connotations to the word outside of the actual definition. Happens all the time. I actually like using the proper word to say what I mean to say. Slang (which I believe MM is defining "cult" in such a way as to call it slang) gets in the way of intended meanings and causes a lot of trouble sometimes. We'd be better off if people stuck with the correct words for things and made up new words when something needs to be given a name.

 

[Further]

It is an interesting concept however. MarAzul, feel free to explain a little further why you think it's a philosophy.

 

[Further]

So you're advocating for the redefining of the word? M-Web gives you the definition. People are attaching there own connotations to the word outside of the actual definition. Happens all the time. I actually like using the proper word to say what I mean to say. Slang (which I believe MM is defining "cult" in such a way as to call it slang) gets in the way of intended meanings and causes a lot of trouble sometimes. We'd be better off if people stuck with the correct words for things and made up new words when something needs to be given a name.

i would say that it depends on the word. Cult, is really not a specific and easily definable thing. MM and Nikolokolus provided their takes on the term, and they made sense. Not totally, there were a couple of things that MM said that did not match my definition, but enough of it did that that I had to think "did Webster's get it wrong?".

Websters, or any any dictionary did not invent any of the words within, they are simply attempting to standardize meaning that already exists in everyday use. Given that The Oxford English dictionary has about 220,000 words, perhaps not all of them are perfectly defined. Also, it is an imperfect format in that we are using words to describe words. I grew up with Yiddish speaking grandparents, and often when I would look up those words they are not quite right in the dictionary. It's not that easy to accurately define a word, especially define 220,000 words. And when one word often has a plethora of definitions that change in context, location, or on tone, there will be room to adjust. The dictionary is a great place to start, but then it's time to use our brains and determine if adjustments need to be made.

At least, that's my current take on it.

 

[MarAzul]

I don't agree that it's a philosophy, more that its an umbrella religion. Not going off of a definition, that was folly once in this thread. I would say a philosophy provides basic tenants of how to approach a subject, which could fit Christianity. But philosophy also does not require the belief in someone, especially someone unproven. Christianity as a whole might provide a scaffolding as a philosophy does, but it goes too far in that it requires specific thoughts and a set of beliefs. If you could subtract Christ from Christianity, I think it would be a philosophy, but once you have to believe that a specific person is a god, died, and came back for our sins, I think that goes far beyond philosophy. It just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

Many people today accept living their lives within the guidelines of the Christian philosophy without actually believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ. It doesn't become a religion until you accept the teachings of one of the Churches that practice a religion. So of course it is a philosophy of life for some and you may also accept it as a religion if you have the faith to be a member of one of the churches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_philosophy

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/christiantheology-philosophy/

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Philosophy-A-Christian-Perspective/dp/0801038189

 

[Further]

Many people today accept living their lives within the guidelines of the Christian philosophy without actually believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ. It doesn't become a religion until you accept the teachings of one of the Churches that practice a religion. So of course it is a philosophy of life for some and you may also accept it as a religion if you have the faith to be a member of one of the churches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_philosophy

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/christiantheology-philosophy/

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Philosophy-A-Christian-Perspective/dp/0801038189

Without belief in Christ, I just don't consider it Christianity. It seems to me that is THE defining characteristic. Am I a Christian? I am very kind, don't cheat, love my neighbor, am a good member of my community, but I don't believe in Christ.

 

[ABM]

Not.

A.

Chance.

 

[MarAzul]

Without belief in Christ, I just don't consider it Christianity. It seems to me that is THE defining characteristic. Am I a Christian? I am very kind, don't cheat, love my neighbor, am a good member of my community, but I don't believe in Christ.

The philosophy of Christianity is all around you everyday whether you believe in Christ or not You probably live your life nearly the same as a Christian but you need not be one unless you wish to be and say you are even though you act like one 95 percent of the time.

This nation was created in the spirit of the Christian philosophy even though the nation does not select the church.

We are endowed by our Creator... The Declaration of Independence

I god we trust.. on our money

One Nation, under God, indivisible... In our pledge of allegiance

The 10 Commandment on the doors to the Supreme court...

You see! The philosophy was selected, even though the church was not.

 

[blazerboy30]

He is just someone who feels that something close and important to him is being attacked. And, he is kind of right. We don't mean it in an aggressive way, just want to discuss the issues and hope that we can get others to understand our perspective, and maybe even give up on religion, but none the less, it is still a bit of an attack. I tried to explain that I was not just trolling, but trying to have a dialogue, but he simply didn't believe it. Oh well, perhaps one day he will see the light (atheism).

You have no idea what my beliefs are.

I'm just pointing out how hypocritical your thread is, and you can't handle it.

People should be called out for lacking logic. That's what I've done for you.

Carry on with your attempt for having your beliefs stroked and massaged by attacking an opposing view. You should probably start some more threads to do so.

 

[Further]

You have no idea what my beliefs are.

I'm just pointing out how hypocritical your thread is, and you can't handle it.

People should be called out for lacking logic. That's what I've done for you.

Carry on with your attempt for having your beliefs stroked and massaged by attacking an opposing view. You should probably start some more threads to do so.

Sorry man, but I have been open to discussion and debate, but you keep saying stuff like i just can't handle it. OK,I think most people who read this thread will not see me as the aggressive monster you make me out to be. Just go ahead and reread my posts, start to finish, and I think you will realize you are misrepresenting me. Either way, I'm done trying to have a discussion with someone who isn't interested. Have a pleasant afternoon.

 

[ABM]

Sorry man, but I have been open to discussion and debate, but you keep saying stuff like i just can't handle it. OK,I think most people who read this thread will not see me as the aggressive monster you make me out to be. Just go ahead and reread my posts, start to finish, and I think you will realize you are misrepresenting me. Either way, I'm done trying to have a discussion with someone who isn't interested. Have a pleasant afternoon.

Hang in there, man. If you don't Stanford something, you will fall for anything.

 

[Further]

The philosophy of Christianity is all around you everyday whether you believe in Christ or not You probably live your life nearly the same as a Christian but you need not be one unless you wish to be and say you are even though you act like one 95 percent of the time.

This nation was created in the spirit of the Christian philosophy even though the nation does not select the church.

We are endowed by our Creator... The Declaration of Independence

I god we trust.. on our money

One Nation, under God, indivisible... In our pledge of allegiance

The 10 Commandment on the doors to the Supreme court...

You see! The philosophy was selected, even though the church was not.

The majority of our forefathers were most certainly Christian, and that influenced not only their actions but their writings, so you are certainly correct about that. But, they also did make certain to separate church from state, and when I look at what makes our nation the strong republic that it is, I consider that separation to be a major component. But over time, i think that many of those original influences have become dislodged from their birthplace and can just be looked at as part of the American makeup. I am from a Jewish family, and it just rubs me the wrong way to be told that my beliefs and actions are of a Christian way of life. I think they are instead of kind and peaceful nature that Christians would agree with, but they are not Christian. None of my actions are coming from a place relating to Christ, or relating to not wanting to be damned, or relating to God, or Heaven, or any of the key components of Christianity.

I have a feeling that this is going to be an area that we will not agree on, we can discuss it, but I just want to say, isn't great to live in a nation where we can have such diverse beliefs and still communicate openly and civilly.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The Mars Hill Church is very cult like. They have churches in Seattle and Portland.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/church-or-cult/Content?oid=12172001

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/...es_backlash_over_church_discipline_case_.html

http://twocleareyes.blogspot.com/2012/01/mars-hill-altar-of-doctrine-and-occult.html

 

[Further]

Hang in there, man. If you don't Stanford something, you will fall for anything.

Thanks ABM.

I was having a Tuffs time, Yaleing my thoughts at him but he wouldn't University of Oregon. Oh wait, that last one didn't work.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Thanks ABM.

I was having a Tuffs time, Yaleing my thoughts at him but he wouldn't University of Oregon. Oh wait, that last one didn't work.

You're just Ducking him now.

 

[MarAzul]

The majority of our forefathers were most certainly Christian, and that influenced not only their actions but their writings, so you are certainly correct about that. But, they also did make certain to separate church from state, and when I look at what makes our nation the strong republic that it is, I consider that separation to be a major component. But over time, i think that many of those original influences have become dislodged from their birthplace and can just be looked at as part of the American makeup. I am from a Jewish family, and it just rubs me the wrong way to be told that my beliefs and actions are of a Christian way of life. I think they are instead of kind and peaceful nature that Christians would agree with, but they are not Christian. None of my actions are coming from a place relating to Christ, or relating to not wanting to be damned, or relating to God, or Heaven, or any of the key components of Christianity.


I have a feeling that this is going to be an area that we will not agree on, we can discuss it, but I just want to say, isn't great to live in a nation where we can have such diverse beliefs and still communicate openly and civilly.

Well you will have to forgive me, I have been using the term Christian Philosophy because I am lazy and trying to shorten the typing. Well also not to be to confusing also I suppose. However, the right term is Judeo-Christian philosophy. As a nation we take much from both even as Christian accept much from Jewish teaching and history. Perhaps it is Abrahamism but I don't see that because that would then include Islam and if you read the Koran, you can not fail to see major differences in the teachings of that religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian

Then there is this fellow and he seem to be a little tight, fails to accept what is, the moral system is the same, the Commandments are the same, the teachings of Tolerance are the same, err I choose to overlook the exceptions.

http://modernjewishvoice.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/is-judeo-christian-philosophy-a-farce-2/

 

[PapaG]

OP spends a lot of time thinking about something that he doesn't believe in.

 

[blazerboy30]

Sorry man, but I have been open to discussion and debate, but you keep saying stuff like i just can't handle it. OK,I think most people who read this thread will not see me as the aggressive monster you make me out to be.

You're not an aggressive monster. You're just unwilling to look at the other side of the coin. You skipped over my post where I used your own definitions to show that "atheism" could be swapped for "christianity" in your original post.

Just go ahead and reread my posts, start to finish, and I think you will realize you are misrepresenting me. Either way, I'm done trying to have a discussion with someone who isn't interested. Have a pleasant afternoon.

I'm not misrepresenting you. And I respect your decision to not have a discussion with someone who isn't interested. And you're right, I'm not interested in having an illogical conversation. Let me know if you'd like to have one of those.

 

[blazerboy30]

OP spends a lot of time thinking about something that he doesn't believe in.

This is what I said in my first post in this thread. Seems odd that the OP spends so much time worrying about religious views that he doesn't believe in but don't hurt him. Insecurity?

 

[e_blazer]

Are you working on becoming obnoxious, GOD, or does it come naturally to you?

 

[MarAzul]

The Mars Hill Church is very cult like. They have churches in Seattle and Portland.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/church-or-cult/Content?oid=12172001

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/...es_backlash_over_church_discipline_case_.html

http://twocleareyes.blogspot.com/2012/01/mars-hill-altar-of-doctrine-and-occult.html

Dang the bloody interloper! Oh well I guess the MarNet will just have to establish the difference and the distinction.