Is it all LeBron's fault?

[Shooter]

. . . Some believe the whole reason for the lockout itself is the Heat's ability to add James and Chris Bosh last year during free agency. Small market owners want to make sure that never happens again.

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/south-floridas-eye-popping-economic-hoops-losses

I find this a very compelling argument. The LeBron James-Chris Bosh move to Miami shook up the league like nothing ever has. It is the ultimate irony that LeBron James may have orchestrated himself right out of an entire season and made the fate of the player's association and every other player worse than it was before.

 

[Nikolokolus]

If you want to blame Lebron then you might as well blame the AAU culture that created him and about 75% of the rest of the players in the league.

Bottom line: Players are used to playing with their friends and being friends with opponents off the court and generally not being cut from the same cloth that gave us MJ, the Bad Boy Pistons, Bird, Magic et al. -- guys who wanted to rip each other's hearts out on the court and who would have balked at the idea of joining forces with guys they competed against.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

The tampering gag order is not in effect during the lockout. So Anthony freely admitted yesterday how delighted he would be if Hornets point guard Chris Paul bolted the Big Easy for the Big Apple. Anthony has spent a lot of this summer hanging with Paul and even playing on his team during barnstorming exhibitions. ‘If it works out and he comes here and they allow him to come here, you’ll see a smile from ear to ear,’ Anthony said during an appearance in Greenwich Village.

Fuck these egotistical "stars". I hope the owners absolutely own these guys in court.

 

[super mecha]

Its not lebrons fault that we gave him the ego

 

[Mediocre Man]

I hope the owners win in court as well, but I'm not so sure that happens

 

[Natebishop3]

I hope the NBA goes under and a new league comes out of the ashes.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I hope the NBA goes under and a new league comes out of the ashes.

A new league that is more competitive. Not a league run by the players, which is the only reason a new league would be formed

 

[BBert]

A new league that is more competitive. Not a league run by the players, which is the only reason a new league would be formed

I won't support such a league. Not that I'll be missed. OSU Beaver season tickets, here I come.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

If all this turns into a restructuring of the system, than thank you Lebron James?

It is interesting to think that the whole "decision" played out this summer by Lebron could have had an impact on all this. If he picks Clevland, are owners as concerned about stars leaving for big market teams?

"The decision" might have actually been huge on the NBA. But don't tell Lebron that, he might get a big ego over it.

 

[Nikolokolus]

This lockout was looming long before the Superfriends joined forces in Miami. This isn't about stars heading for bigger markets (that's been happening since Jabbar) this is about money and the fact that some large market teams are making money hand over fist and others are barely staying afloat.

If you guys want to find the real culprit look at the TV deals the Celtics, Lakers and Knicks enjoy. Those massive TV contracts contribute to the league-wide calculation of BRI, but only a couple of teams are actually benefitting from them. In a weird twist because those contracts raise the amount of BRI, they also indirectly raise the real amount of compensation the players are entitled to (raising the value of the MLE, max contracts etc.) but it doesn't mean 27 other teams are suddenly more capable of bearing the burden.

Face it people, the way the NBA has been run for the past decade and a half is essentially broken financially and it's not really competitive between small market teams and large market teams. Certainly the players have a role in the failure of the system, but if you think this is mostly about player movement then you aren't paying attention.

 

[Shooter]

This lockout was looming long before the Superfriends joined forces in Miami.

Perhaps, but the James-Bosh move to Miami may have so infuriated the other owners, especially the small-market ones, that they drew an even tougher line in the sand during negotiations, hence leading to the situation we have today.

 

[Draco]

If you guys want to find the real culprit look at the TV deals the Celtics, Lakers and Knicks enjoy. Those massive TV contracts contribute to the league-wide calculation of BRI, but only a couple of teams are actually benefitting from them. In a weird twist because those contracts raise the amount of BRI, they also indirectly raise the real amount of compensation the players are entitled to (raising the value of the MLE, max contracts etc.) but it doesn't mean 27 other teams are suddenly more capable of bearing the burden.

Does local TV contract revenue get included in BRI? There is a lot of income excluded from BRI, I thought this was a portion of it.

What about the owners who own the local TV station? They can "sell" the contract for $5 and technically receive nearly zero BRI to share with players but the TV business they own on the side will make a fortune on advertising.


Now overall I agree with your sentiment that these huge local TV deals give the big markets an unfair advantage and is a main contributor to the hard line owners stance on the lockout but I've just heard conflicting statements on BRI.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Does local TV contract revenue get included in BRI? There is a lot of income excluded from BRI, I thought this was a portion of it.

What about the owners who own the local TV station? They can "sell" the contract for $5 and technically receive nearly zero BRI to share with players but the TV business they own on the side will make a fortune on advertising.


Now overall I agree with your sentiment that these huge local TV deals give the big markets an unfair advantage and is a main contributor to the hard line owners stance on the lockout but I've just heard conflicting statements on BRI.

Yes, teams' individual TV contracts get included into the league-wide revenue calculation. This is one of the reasons there is a split between small market owners and large market owners. The reason they have decided to get even more money from the players is because they can't seem to agree to a reasonable revenue sharing system.

I can't remember who wrote on it last week (Simmons perhaps?) but the Lakers' one billion dollar TV deal was cited as one of the key issues driving this mess.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Perhaps, but the James-Bosh move to Miami may have so infuriated the other owners, especially the small-market ones, that they drew an even tougher line in the sand during negotiations, hence leading to the situation we have today.

And they should. Unless these small market owners just want to accept that no matter what they do, they will lose a superstar player, they need to stay firm on this (numbers probably aren't on their side).

IMO, what keeps fans going to teams that aren't championship contenders or even the teams that have losing records, is that they have their one or two stars that on any given night can carry the team to victory. Take away these stars from medicore teams and you are taking aways the life blood of the fans.

These players all want to go play with each other in big market cities. Great for them, sucks for the NBA. Case in point: Lebron James and the Cleveland Cavs

 

[oldmangrouch]

Why did the "superfriends" idea work? It wasn't just the whim of the players.

This whole situation required an incredible amount of guts on the part of the Heat. Some people around here are terrified at the idea of rebuilding. Well folks, Miami burned their team down to the foundation to make cap space to sign LBJ and Bosh...and then had to figure out how to put a roster around them.

The playing field will never be level as long as some teams have more brains and bigger balls. Allen and the other hard-liners (most of whom have really mediocre teams - go figure) need to wake up.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Why did the "superfriends" idea work? It wasn't just the whim of the players.

This whole situation required an incredible amount of guts on the part of the Heat. Some people around here are terrified at the idea of rebuilding. Well folks, Miami burned their team down to the foundation to make cap space to sign LBJ and Bosh...and then had to figure out how to put a roster around them.

The playing field will never be level as long as some teams have more brains and bigger balls. Allen and the other hard-liners (most of whom have really mediocre teams - go figure) need to wake up.

Problem is "superfriends" always have a short list of where they will go to save the day. So even if small market teams are willing to spend, players don't want to go there.

The reasons some of us don't want to rebuild is it feel like we were just there (6 ugly years) with the only sign of hope being good/lucky draft picks. Even with PA's money, we couldn't get the superfriends here . . . maybe the wonder twins, but superman, aquaman, batman . . . forget about it.

(But if rebuilding means bringing in Bosh and Lebron to join the Blazers, I'm all for rebuilding . . . well not Lebron, but you get the idea)

 

[Denny Crane]

LeBron and the Heat played by the rules. I have no beef about it.

The CBA basically sucked because of a lot of horrible contracts that took years to get out of the system.

Why on earth should RLEC have any value, and why should the team suffer a roster spot and cap hit over it?

IMO, it should be up to the owners to insure those kinds of contracts or to eat the paychecks and move on.

I mean, waive RLEC and pay a good player similar money under the cap. Gives us fans more value for the price of a ticket...

 

[oldmangrouch]

LeBron and the Heat played by the rules. I have no beef about it.

The CBA basically sucked because of a lot of horrible contracts that took years to get out of the system.

Why on earth should RLEC have any value, and why should the team suffer a roster spot and cap hit over it?

IMO, it should be up to the owners to insure those kinds of contracts or to eat the paychecks and move on.

I mean, waive RLEC and pay a good player similar money under the cap. Gives us fans more value for the price of a ticket...

Been saying this for years. If the owners cared about "competitive balance" (hint: they don't) they would make it EASIER for teams to shed deadwood and make roster moves.

 

[maxiep]

Perhaps, but the James-Bosh move to Miami may have so infuriated the other owners, especially the small-market ones, that they drew an even tougher line in the sand during negotiations, hence leading to the situation we have today.

It didn't likely infuriate them as much as it scared them shitless. I heard the value of the Cavs dropped nine figures after "The Decision". There but for the grace of God go I...

 

[Nikolokolus]

And they should. Unless these small market owners just want to accept that no matter what they do, they will lose a superstar player, they need to stay firm on this (numbers probably aren't on their side).

IMO, what keeps fans going to teams that aren't championship contenders or even the teams that have losing records, is that they have their one or two stars that on any given night can carry the team to victory. Take away these stars from medicore teams and you are taking aways the life blood of the fans.

These players all want to go play with each other in big market cities. Great for them, sucks for the NBA. Case in point: Lebron James and the Cleveland Cavs

The problem is that there was so little financial incentive to stay with Cleveland and not much financial disincentive for going to Miami to play with Wade. He walked away from maybe a 10% pay raise.

If teams want to keep their true superstar players then teams need to be able to pay them what they are worth. In a free agent market where no max contracts existed (but a salary cap or prohibitive luxury tax) guys like Lebron and Kobe would make 40 to 50 million a year. So if the rules were set up to increase the gap between compensation for bird rights players (the guy you draft) versus street free agents and/or if teams were able to pay players what they are truly worth, there wouldn't be much incentive for walking away from the team that drafted them. You would end up with a more or less even distribution of star power around the league ... assuming you had a GM smart enough to draft such a player.

Of course you're going to end up with some dumbass owner or GM overpaying a guy here or there, but overall you'd see a drastic change when faux franchise players like Andre Iguodala don't make 85-90% of the salary that a truly great player like Wade or Lebron makes.

 

[Denny Crane]

The Cavs' problem was they used their cap space as best they could to surround LeBron with players to win, and they got saddled with a poor cap position and players like an over the hill Ben Wallace.

Why not mention the Celtics, who got three perennial all stars, trading for two of them and not giving up much?

 

[oldmangrouch]

Problem is "superfriends" always have a short list of where they will go to save the day. So even if small market teams are willing to spend, players don't want to go there.

The reasons some of us don't want to rebuild is it feel like we were just there (6 ugly years) with the only sign of hope being good/lucky draft picks. Even with PA's money, we couldn't get the superfriends here . . . maybe the wonder twins, but superman, aquaman, batman . . . forget about it.

(But if rebuilding means bringing in Bosh and Lebron to join the Blazers, I'm all for rebuilding . . . well not Lebron, but you get the idea)

No doubt, some NBA players would rather live in Miami. OTOH, that advantage never amounted to anything until they drafted Wade. What if Detroit and Denver hadn't passed on Wade on draft day? We wouldn't be having this conversation.

Nik also raises a good point. If teams could designate one "franchise player" - and pay them whatever they wanted - LBJ would still be a Cav.

That is why I don't buy the argument that "competitive balance" is part of the owners' agenda. There are plenty of things they could do to further that goal...but since none of them would immediately increase profit margins, they aren't even on the table!

 

[Draco]

Been saying this for years. If the owners cared about "competitive balance" (hint: they don't) they would make it EASIER for teams to shed deadwood and make roster moves.

I was hoping with a new CBA teams would be able to get out of some of the burden of a horrible contract. Giving NBA players a contract isn't a perfect science, you just don't know for certain what that player will provide, at the time Roy was given his contract he looked like he could be a perennial all-star and now he is a bench role player. When Nash was let go by the Mavs they thought he would regress but he became the league MVP.

The current environment where teams are stuck with long term deals no matter the performance level of the player can kill a franchise. There needs to be some relief available, no not complete relief but maybe getting out of half the contract. Conversely guys like Derrick Rose who are the league MVP should not be locked into a tiny contract for half a decade when they are worth 20x that amount.

I’m very sad the owners didn’t hold ground on this issue, overpaid long term huge guaranteed contracts is my biggest gripe with the NBA. It sucks having guys like Miles, Raef, Theo Ratliff, Roy, Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas, stuck on your team when the franchise, fans, and player himself all hate the situation.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Is it LeBron's fault? That might be the stupidest question I've heard in a long time.
Where was the outrage when Shaq went to the Lakers? Or Hill and McGrady to the Magic? Dirty little secret: the Miami Heat last year were the best thing that happened to the league in years. The ONLY people that got hurt were the people of Cleveland. You know, like the people of Milwaukee when Kareem left, the people of Charlotte when Kobe Bryant refused to play there, even the people of Sacramento when Brian Grant chose Portland. Parity is NOT actually good for a league like the NBA. As has been pointed out ad nauseam, the most parity the league had possibly ever was in the 70s, and while the people of Portland and Seattle think well of those times, by the end of the seventies the final was on tape delay and audiences were dwindling.

Look at the English Premier League: does any team that isn't Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, or (now, thanks to a billionaire foreign owner) Man City stand a chance? No, never have. Yet it's more popular than ever.

 

[illmatic99]

No need to vilify LBJ. The previous CBA allowed him to do what he did. He simply took advantage of it.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

No need to vilify LBJ. The previous CBA allowed him to do what he did. He simply took advantage of it.

But it was the way he took advantage of it that set the tone for what the NBA has become . . . it's all about the players and not about organizations.

Lebron schedules a prime time event to tell all NBA fans around US, on live national TV, that this is all about him and he is screwing the people of Cleveland. In spite of everything the Cavs did for Lebron, in spite of him being the local superstar hero of the community, he wakes up and "feels like Miami is place." I think every small market team felt the pain on that one.

So sure all Lebron did was take advantage of the CBA . . . but that is what is wrong with the CBA. And maybe he shouldn't be villified, but the way he took advantage of the CBA, he should be the face of why the system needs changing.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Announcer: Lebron, how many months do you think the Lockout will last?

Lebron: Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7....

 

[Rastapopoulos]

But it was the way he took advantage of it that set the tone for what the NBA has become . . . it's all about the players and not about organizations.

Y'know, if I'd lived my whole life in industrial Ohio, I think I'd be pretty tempted to take a job in a different state. And if I was working for Target at the time, and I decided to go work for Sears, and some Target boss got all mad that I didn't love Target as much as I should - I'd laugh in his face.

LeBron didn't grow up a Cavs fan, remember?

Lebron schedules a prime time event to tell all NBA fans around US, on live national TV, that this is all about him and he is screwing the people of Cleveland. In spite of everything the Cavs did for Lebron, in spite of him being the local superstar hero of the community, he wakes up and "feels like Miami is place." I think every small market team felt the pain on that one.

Yes it was classless. But on the flipside, the Cavs got a shitload out of LeBron. They got gifted the greatest player of a generation and he did, after all, re-sign his first contract with them. He dragged a sorry-ass team, whose second-best player was Mo Fucking Williams to the FINALS. They should sit back and realize that they were damn lucky to get what they got and quit their whining.

So sure all Lebron did was take advantage of the CBA . . . but that is what is wrong with the CBA.

I don't think you realize how restrictive the system already is. Maybe if there was no draft, then it might be reasonable to restrict free agency, because players would get to pick their teams in the first place. But think about it: he got drafted. Every team in the country wanted him, but instead of him having his pick, he has to go the the fucking Cavs, who (of course) are TERRIBLE at the time. This doesn't happen in any non-American sport!

 

[illmatic99]

Y'know, if I'd lived my whole life in industrial Ohio, I think I'd be pretty tempted to take a job in a different state.

Seriously, I think most people do not realize how shitty Cleveland (and most of NE Ohio) is.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Y'know, if I'd lived my whole life in industrial Ohio, I think I'd be pretty tempted to take a job in a different state. And if I was working for Target at the time, and I decided to go work for Sears, and some Target boss got all mad that I didn't love Target as much as I should - I'd laugh in his face.

LeBron didn't grow up a Cavs fan, remember?



Yes it was classless. But on the flipside, the Cavs got a shitload out of LeBron. They got gifted the greatest player of a generation and he did, after all, re-sign his first contract with them. He dragged a sorry-ass team, whose second-best player was Mo Fucking Williams to the FINALS. They should sit back and realize that they were damn lucky to get what they got and quit their whining.



I don't think you realize how restrictive the system already is. Maybe if there was no draft, then it might be reasonable to restrict free agency, because players would get to pick their teams in the first place. But think about it: he got drafted. Every team in the country wanted him, but instead of him having his pick, he has to go the the fucking Cavs, who (of course) are TERRIBLE at the time. This doesn't happen in any non-American sport!

How dare the NBA have a restrictive system while dishing out guaranteed contact for up to six years . . . poor players having to live in a city like Cleveland or Minny for 9 months a yr while making tens of millions of dollars. The humanity of it all. These players should be able to play where they want when they want. Damn these plantation owners taking advantage of these naive players.

I don't know how restrictive NBA is compared to other sports. The NFL can make a player stay with one franchise for his career, how oppressive is that (I would never want that no matter how many tens of millions they pay me). NHL, now there is an ideal model for players right? and I really don't know much about sports outside the US but I read an article about Donovan and how if a team owns your rights and they can send you to play for different clubs in different leagues . . . in different countires (is that true?).

But really, to me, it doesn't matter how restrictive the NBA . . . I just want a system where small market teams can compete. Maybe that is impossible , or unfair, and I doubt the end result of all this will achieve the goal I am hoping for, but one can always hope.

I suppose the system I have in mind could suck for the players, but I'm really not feeling all that bad for people making millions of dollars to play basketball. Yes they may have to live in a Salt Lake City, a Portland, a Cleveland, a Minnesota . . . but I'm guessing they are getting paid decent money to live there. They aren't slaves, and one thing you can bet on, if there is a CBA, the players will be there taking advatage of it . . . in a classless way to boot.