Is it really important to have Cap Space in 2020?

[Labinot41]

I just checked the 2020 Free Agent class, and yeah, thats not a good class tbh, actually it's a weak class. I see a lot of people think that teams learned from 2016, i actually think the teams will overpay again because next year free agency class is so weak. What are our options for 2020 FAMS ?

 

[Mediocre Man]

It's never important for Portland to have a ton of cap space

 

[BonesJones]

I just checked the 2020 Free Agent class, and yeah, thats not a good class tbh, actually it's a weak class. I see a lot of people think that teams learned from 2016, i actually think the teams will overpay again because next year free agency class is so weak. What are our options for 2020 FAMS ?

If we had $11M in cap space this year we couldve gotten Warren and Okpala for free...

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Players have more value on reasonable contracts. Having no cap space because we are paying $60 million per year to Turner/Crabbe/Meyers/Harkless hurts the team. It prevents the team from trading away those players either, they are worth much less than empty cap space.

Overpaying players prevents the team from signing MLE players. It prevents the team from adding salary in a trade. It makes management trade away assets just to avoid the luxury tax. The team may end up stretching a salary which is why we will have Nicholson on our salary cap in 2023.

Getting under the cap usually requires sacrifices elsewhere in constructing the roster, so that may not be the most beneficial strategy either. Either scenario can be an unwanted extreme.

But having players on valuable contracts most certainly helps the team, even if we never use cap space to sign a free agent.

 

[PCmor7]

I just checked the 2020 Free Agent class, and yeah, thats not a good class tbh, actually it's a weak class. I see a lot of people think that teams learned from 2016, i actually think the teams will overpay again because next year free agency class is so weak. What are our options for 2020 FAMS ?

We don't really have a complete idea who will be in that class yet, though. You have such a big class this year and only so much money to go around. I think there are going to be a lot of good players signing team-friendly contracts, and we already have the possibility of some good players who are considering inking one-year deals to be in the position to get more lucrative deals next year.

So maybe we aren't one of seven teams contending for the 10 really big name guys this year. With that off the table, wouldn't it be better to be one of say three teams that have money to spend in an overflow market next year?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

We don't really have a complete idea who will be in that class yet, though. You have such a big class this year and only so much money to go around. I think there are going to be a lot of good players signing team-friendly contracts, and we already have the possibility of some good players who are considering inking one-year deals to be in the position to get more lucrative deals next year.

So maybe we aren't one of seven teams contending for the 10 really big name guys this year. With that off the table, wouldn't it be better to be one of say three teams that have money to spend in an overflow market next year?

I have gotten to the point where FA as a Blazer fan just sucks. Stock pile assets and make trades, we are never real players in FA.

 

[PCmor7]

I have gotten to the point where FA as a Blazer fan just sucks. Stock pile assets and make trades, we are never real players in FA.

I understand that feeling, but I don't know that it has to be that way. If you have an organization that people want to be part of, eventually you are going to get someone. But having cap space is a prerequisite. You can't sign anyone if you don't have money to sign them.

And that goes to what I was saying above. If you are the one team that has money to spend because everyone else blew their cap space the year before, you have an increased chance of getting a useful player. It's just supply and demand.

 

[BonesJones]

I have gotten to the point where FA as a Blazer fan just sucks. Stock pile assets and make trades, we are never real players in FA.

Assets like Okpala? The 17th Pick? Trades like Warren?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

We don't really have a complete idea who will be in that class yet, though. You have such a big class this year and only so much money to go around. I think there are going to be a lot of good players signing team-friendly contracts, and we already have the possibility of some good players who are considering inking one-year deals to be in the position to get more lucrative deals next year.

So maybe we aren't one of seven teams contending for the 10 really big name guys this year. With that off the table, wouldn't it be better to be one of say three teams that have money to spend in an overflow market next year?

Yes I'd rather have the cap space than not. Don't extend Even Turner and Meyers just because there is fear they could walk for nothing. But if we can sign Kanter or Hood for a team friendly deal I'd certainly do it even if it uses 2020 cap space.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I understand that feeling, but I don't know that it has to be that way. If you have an organization that people want to be part of, eventually you are going to get someone. But having cap space is a prerequisite. You can't sign anyone if you don't have money to sign them.

And that goes to what I was saying above. If you are the one team that has money to spend because everyone else blew their cap space the year before, you have an increased chance of getting a useful player. It's just supply and demand.

I don't buy it every year or two we (the general we) start going into all the reasons why FA's may come here and how our culture or Dame, or whatever may make an FA want to come here and it basically never happens. Absolutely agree it's better to have space to work with than not, but we will never be the one and only team with money and FA's time and time again choose other places.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Assets like Okpala? The 17th Pick? Trades like Warren?

While I'm not really high on Okpala or Warren, sure I guess. I'm not saying max out your salary every year, I realize having cap space gives you flexibility, I am saying that I don't believe cap space for the sake of making failed runs at FA's is the way to build a team here.

 

[SwissBlazer]

Yes I'd rather have the cap space than not. Don't extend Even Turner and Meyers just because there is fear they could walk for nothing. But if we can sign Kanter or Hood for a team friendly deal I'd certainly do it even if it uses 2020 cap space.

FEAR?

 

[BonesJones]

While I'm not really high on Okpala or Warren, sure I guess. I'm not saying max out your salary every year, I realize having cap space gives you flexibility, I am saying that I don't believe cap space for the sake of making failed runs at FA's is the way to build a team here.

Making a run at free agents is one of many different positives and isnt doomed to fail.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I don't buy it every year or two we (the general we) start going into all the reasons why FA's may come here and how our culture or Dame, or whatever may make an FA want to come here and it basically never happens. Absolutely agree it's better to have space to work with than not, but we will never be the one and only team with money and FA's time and time again choose other places.

Kanter chose us over the Warriors and Lakers.

If anyone expects cap space will get us for certain one of the three best free agents thats a bad plan to rely on. But same for the Knicks, and they are in freaking New York City. How many years have they tried to sign free agents and the best is an injured Amare Stoudamire?

Most teams don't sign all star free agents, its happens a few times a decade. Cap space still is an asset and has value. So no don't hold out hope its going to get us an allstar but also don't discount it as no value and worthless just because the team is in tiny little Oregon.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Kanter chose us over the Warriors and Lakers.

If anyone expects cap space will get us for certain one of the three best free agents thats a bad plan to rely on. But same for the Knicks, and they are in freaking New York City. How many years have they tried to sign free agents and the best is an injured Amare Stoudamire?

Most teams don't sign all star free agents, its happens a few times a decade. Cap space still is an asset and has value. So no don't hold out hope its going to get us an allstar but also don't discount it as no value and worthless just because the team is in tiny little Oregon.

If you listen to Kanter he said that no one wanted him, so did he choose us or did no one want him?

 

[SharpesTriumph]

FEAR?

Exactly my thought back in 2016, but hundreds of Blazer fans were yelling how we had to give Meyers that stupid contract or we'd loose him for nothing.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Making a run at free agents is one of many different positives and isnt doomed to fail.

I really liked Enes Kanter no doubt about that, but is he our best FA signing? Cause while it's not doomed to fail, I certainly will believe it when I see it.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Exactly my thought back in 2016, but hundreds of Blazer fans were yelling how we had to give Meyers that stupid contract or we'd loose him for nothing.

Did Blazer fans say that? I don't remember a single Blazer fan excited that they gave ML 4 years at 10m a year...

 

[SwissBlazer]

Did Blazer fans say that? I don't remember a single Blazer fan excited that they gave ML 4 years at 10m a year...

I could have seen a one year deal to have an asset for the next deadline. But anything more than ? Nobody wanted that.

 

[hoopsjock]

I just checked the 2020 Free Agent class, and yeah, thats not a good class tbh, actually it's a weak class. I see a lot of people think that teams learned from 2016, i actually think the teams will overpay again because next year free agency class is so weak. What are our options for 2020 FAMS ?

You're ignoring three things:

1) Unbalanced trades. We got guys like Napier and Harkless for free because of having space. We also got an extra 1st round pick which became Swanigan because of cap space. This summer the AD, Conley, Warren/32nd pick, Crabbe/17th pick, and Baynes/24th pick were all trades that teams used cap space to make those deals.

2) You don't yet know which free agents will sign one year deals this summer and become free agents again next summer. I could see a good portion of the free agents falling in that category.

3) Even if we only had $12 million it's still more than the MLE so we can outbid any other team that doesn't have cap space. We wouldn't be after max slot guys so this would likely result in us adding a oretty good player of the non max slot guys. Think last year we could've had someone like a DeMarcus Cousins or Julius Randle. There are guys like that every year.

Wouldn't it be nice this summer not to be worried about tax and hard cap?

 

[craigehlo]

I'm a proponent of looking to only sign one year contracts this year for any free agents to keep the flexibility of next summer (assuming there isn't a blockbuster deal at the deadline). Let Hood walk if he won't take a 1-year deal with a team option for year 2. Let's go into the summer with a ton of cap space and patience for once.

 

[SwissBlazer]

I'm a proponent of looking to only sign one year contracts this year for any free agents to keep the flexibility of next summer (assuming there isn't a blockbuster deal at the deadline). Let Hood walk if he won't take a 1-year deal with a team option for year 2. Let's go into the summer with a ton of cap space and patience for once.

I wouldn't say "a ton" of cap space. A few millions more than the MLE would be a bit more correct.

 

[hoopsjock]

I'm a proponent of looking to only sign one year contracts this year for any free agents to keep the flexibility of next summer (assuming there isn't a blockbuster deal at the deadline). Let Hood walk if he won't take a 1-year deal with a team option for year 2. Let's go into the summer with a ton of cap space and patience for once.

I mostly agree, but if Hood wanted to sign a 4 year deal at the Tax-MLE that would be a huge win this summer.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Is it really important to have Cap Space in 2020?

All space matters.

 

[Titan]

Yes, it is important for the team to have cap space. As others have stated, it gives the team flexibility. If you only think cap space is for signing big time free agents, you will just be disappointed and also clearly don’t know the other benefits it gives (we could trade for a star without giving up core players).

 

[wizenheimer]

All space matters.

great...a dog barking quantum physics

 

[wizenheimer]

forget about the exact level of cap-space and remember that having some space gives a team major flexibility, something Portland hasn't had since July 2016

You're ignoring three things:

1) Unbalanced trades. We got guys like Napier and Harkless for free because of having space. We also got an extra 1st round pick which became Swanigan because of cap space.

well, that Varejao trade is pretty questionable at this point. It's hard to keep track of everything like the salary floor, remaining salary, stretch, and tax, but it may be a really expensive 26th pick when it's all said and done (IIRC, wasn't Mike Miller part of that trade too?)

but something to keep in mind is that generally, those unbalanced trades are right in Olshey's wheelhouse. Maynor, Harkless, Napier and the best one: Lopez. Olshey's only bust was TRob. Mainly, Olshey has shown that he can cut into the front of the line when another team is looking to dump a decent player. He's a master at snorkeling thru the bargain bins. And an NBA axiom seems to be that teams are always willing to dump players that can end up on another team as reclamation projects.

and 12M in space, give or take a couple of million is right in the sweet spot for Portland. It's not enough space that Olshey can fuck up things big-time with a huge offer to a Roy Hibbert or a Greg Monroe or a Chandler Parsons or an Even Turner. But it's enough to be a factor in those unbalanced trades, or sign players like Aminu or Ed Davis.

Mostly, that kind of space really ratchets up flexibility. Blazers could use the 12M on a free agent(s) and or trades, then use the 5M room exception to sign another player. Or they could not renounce rights to certain player(s), then use a 9.8M full-MLE and a 4M BAE (although be hard-capped)

Lastly, having that kind of flexibility that some summer space (margin under the tax line) would give would mean the Blazers would be a lot less likely to let a TPE like the Crabbe one expire

maybe I'm off-base, but I actually think this summer' free agency will be fairly pivotal

Wouldn't it be nice this summer not to be worried about tax and hard cap?

which should be a giant flashing neon sign pointed at Olshey reminding him to NOT give out full 4 year deals that don't have team options for the final year

 

[Wizard Mentor]

You're ignoring three things:

1) Unbalanced trades. We got guys like Napier and Harkless for free because of having space. We also got an extra 1st round pick which became Swanigan because of cap space. This summer the AD, Conley, Warren/32nd pick, Crabbe/17th pick, and Baynes/24th pick were all trades that teams used cap space to make those deals.

2) You don't yet know which free agents will sign one year deals this summer and become free agents again next summer. I could see a good portion of the free agents falling in that category.

3) Even if we only had $12 million it's still more than the MLE so we can outbid any other team that doesn't have cap space. We wouldn't be after max slot guys so this would likely result in us adding a oretty good player of the non max slot guys. Think last year we could've had someone like a DeMarcus Cousins or Julius Randle. There are guys like that every year.

Wouldn't it be nice this summer not to be worried about tax and hard cap?

Let me simplify the concept even more than @hoopsjock has here:

It's not about cap space, it's about cap FLEXIBILITY!
/end thread

Cap Flexibility allows us to play at the margins, which is really the only place small market teams get to play.
With it, we can get an unheralded Rolo here, sign a budget free agent there, keep our own dudes when we
don't have their bird rights..... Cap Flexibility means that we have an opportunity to outsmart other GMs.

Without it, we had better be a championship team already, because improving is unlikely. In 2020, if we
don't make some of the questionable moves suggest on these boards, we will finally have cap flexibility again.

And what's really great is that we already have a guy who will step right into ETs minutes when we waive
bye-bye to him in 2020 - Little.

 

[hoopsjock]

well, that Varejao trade is pretty questionable at this point. It's hard to keep track of everything like the salary floor, remaining salary, stretch, and tax, but it may be a really expensive 26th pick when it's all said and done (IIRC, wasn't Mike Miller part of that trade too?)

Of course the results of that trade didn't end up being great, although if Skal takes a big jump at any point it may still have been worth it. I will always be of the opinion that picking up extra future 1st round picks is always a good strategy for small market teams though. Whether it's combining picks to move up in the draft, using the picks in a trade, or just having an extra pick that you hope turns into something special no matter how unlikely.

 

[oldmangrouch]

It's never important for Portland to have a ton of cap space

I have to disagree. Cap space isn't just about chasing big name(big ego) free agents. It's also about trade flexibility and the ability to fill out the roster with "middle class" vets instead of minimum wage cast-offs.