Is it time to legalize marijuana?

[DaLincolnJones]

Hey guys, my interest in hydroponics and aquaponics has lead me in a strange direction.

Let me first state that I do not use weed. I have been ambivalent to those that use and toward the medical movement in general.


In researching the different systems for growing vegetables indoors, I soon realized that the most advanced growers were growing pot. This led me to examine their Technics and the system that the current law has in place.

From there I took a gander at the product, and the intended ailments. This lead me to what pot does, how it works, and the documented benefits.

For me to discover that their has been research done that shows so many different medical uses, and that my initial opinion of (wink wink) "medical marijuana" had been in error, has been astounding.

This took my to where I had to understand more, I went again to the system in place by Oregon law. For the most part, I do think it was well intended, but there are a few things that really need to be changed.

At this time, if you grow, you can not own a gun. Really? The State would treat a grower like a mental patient? Like a convicted felon? Not to mention that there have already been several legal growers that have been the victims of robbery and violence. Hey fuck tards...lets just keep all the money in a big pile in the middle of the bank..lets not lock it up or try and protect it....jeeesshh..

Second thing I noticed is that they have provided no clear means of product procurement for dispensaries. By law they can not "buy" it, but they are allowed to reimburse the grower for his costs..really? Thinly veiled bullshit to circumvent federal law, I know, but really?

Next, they do not allow a medical user the ability to sell over production to a dispensary. And in Washington state, they will prosecute. Again..short sighted.

The best for last..This I found most disturbing. The state has began to pit legal growers against illegal growers, and encourages the legal ones to report their under the radar brethren. Horse shit. The idea was to circumvent dumb laws, not find ways to enforce some other dumb fucking law..good gawd.

To me, the easiest way to correct these and other flaws, would to simply legalize its use and production.

Oh and as an aside, discovering that police regularly harass legal growers and that the Feds enjoy raiding those that band together for large grows, just to confiscate property and funds is shameful..Our government is in place to serve the population, not to victimize it.

 

[Eastoff]

I think it should be legal, and structured similar to colorado or washington. SOmething like a 19 or 21 age restriction. Employers can choose to ban employees who smoke. DUI with marijuana still prosecuted. I have no clue about how growing and selling should be regulated, but if it becomes legalized here, I would hope law makers can examine how well things are going in Colorado and Washington already and extrapolate from there.

 

[RR7]

I think it should be legal, and structured similar to colorado or washington. SOmething like a 19 or 21 age restriction. Employers can choose to ban employees who smoke. DUI with marijuana still prosecuted. I have no clue about how growing and selling should be regulated, but if it becomes legalized here, I would hope law makers can examine how well things are going in Colorado and Washington already and extrapolate from there.

I think growing should be similar to brewing your own beer. Go to town. However, similar to alcohol, there should probably be a similar verification process of growers to be able to provide their merchandise to dealers

 

[Eastoff]

I think growing should be similar to brewing your own beer. Go to town. However, similar to alcohol, there should probably be a similar verification process of growers to be able to provide their merchandise to dealers

You can give it away without regulations, but you need a license to sell?

 

[RR7]

You can give it away without regulations, but you need a license to sell?

Give away like to friends? Yeah. I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to grow, even large amounts, since black market will be drastically diminished

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Here is an article that just came out yesterday on the ballot measure that will be coming up in November to legalize marijuana and opinions from two former prosecutors discussing if you should be allowed to grow it and how much you should be able allowed to grow:


Mark McDonnell, former chief of the drug unit at the Multnomah County District Attorney’s Office, and Norm Frink, former chief deputy district attorney, said marijuana legalization is inevitable, but New Approach Oregon's plan is deeply flawed.


http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2014/07/retired_multnomah_county_prose.html

 

[DaLincolnJones]

As a rule I do not click on olive links...but I will make an exception. I found this short article today that many should find interesting http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/08/health/gupta-changed-mind-marijuana/

I have to say that I have become a proponent of and will will vote for any attempt to legalize

 

[donkiez]

Ok a subject that needs my knowledge. DLJ you are spot on with most of you assessment. One big thing you missed is that dispensaries can not bank their money either due to drug proceed laws, Obama has already stated that he will no go after legal entities but banks want more of an assurance than that because they are liable also. The big hypocrisy here is that drug cartels have been pretty much openly laundering their drug money through American banks. As a Oregon patient and/or grower you are not allowed to sell marijuana either, you are however allowed to accept donations for the marijuana you provide to any legal OMMP patients. The donation is to cover the expense of the grow, because contrary to popular belief growing is expensive. So its really a loop hole, a grower can't "sell" it and you have to be careful of your verbiage but its essentially the same thing. For grins and giggles go to craigslist and search OMMP.

Other big issues I see with the system is that there is no quality control and as you stated it pits legal vs illegal growers, however illegal growers will still be selling to their friends to avoid taxes or will be selling to the east coast, where its still more illegal than legal. The quality is a big problem though as badly grown pot can have all sorts of nasty stuff in it, from mold/mildew bugs and pesticides. Most reputable dispensaries quality control their stuff but there is nothing to say they have to and some things like the pesticides wont show up.

The interesting part of the medical issue is how its changed the price of pot in Oregon. Ive been a smoker since the early 90's when an ounce cost $280-$350. With medical the prices has gone down to $150-$220, but in states where its legal its upwards of $20grams and $450+ ounces. These days the real money for illegal growers is their friends or the east coast. Our laws are set up here to create a surplus for most growers and with no real borders to cross between here and the east its easy money for people making the trip these days. Once it goes fully legal it will be more expensive than it ever has been.

 

[Sedatedfork]

The problem with marijuana related DUI, is that there is not necessarily any particular scale to show that a certain THC level leads to a certain level of impairment. Also other cannabanoids have been ignored with respect to impairment. Setting a THC threshold level will be a really poor standard, yet that is what is being considered in Washington. I think they need to research that aspect more.

 

[magnifier661]

Legalizing weed is a good thing. I don't smoke it either, but I know many that do. I know a few growers as well.

If the federal government received a tax from this product, the industry would bring in huge revenue from it. Mexico wouldn't be shipping thousands of pounds per day to sale either.

Those tax dollars could be used to fight against harder drugs like methamphetamine, Cocaine, and heroin

 

[donkiez]

The problem with marijuana related DUI, is that there is not necessarily any particular scale to show that a certain THC level leads to a certain level of impairment. Also other cannabanoids have been ignored with respect to impairment. Setting a THC threshold level will be a really poor standard, yet that is what is being considered in Washington. I think they need to research that aspect more.

This is a huge problem in the legalization effort. Currently a heavy smoker in WA can get a DUI even if they haven't smoked in a day or two. There are also issues in determining what is a DUI because in test infrequent smokers get wasted with a few puffs and cant drive at all, while heavy smokers preform near normal very soon after smoking.

 

[donkiez]

Legalizing weed is a good thing. I don't smoke it either, but I know many that do. I know a few growers as well.

If the federal government received a tax from this product, the industry would bring in huge revenue from it. Mexico wouldn't be shipping thousands of pounds per day to sale either.

Those tax dollars could be used to fight against harder drugs like methamphetamine, Cocaine, and heroin

and the loss of cartel income would be huge. Ive seen reports that it makes up to 50% of their income or more. Also human trafficking would go down because the new thing for cartels is to move people in the states to grow because its less risk to grow it here now than to move it over the border. Some of these growers dont even know what state they are in.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Great post Donkiez..yeah, I had not even thought about the banking issue. How people can believe that the government is here to help is beyond me.

To me, the quality control issue is fairly simple. There are tests that can measure the THC as well as other compounds. BUT..the truest test is the free market. Sell shit weed, you lose your clientele to a quality grower. Period.

Yeah..growing is expensive, though I know on some boards an ounce of quality smoke can be had for 140 to 160 dollar donation..I think it is like anything else, a store front has to sell for more...and I have seen some dank ass dick in the dirt indica available for 100 per oz. on the black market.

 

[BlazerWookee]

No.

 

[donkiez]

I was using dispensary prices, long term locals dont pay retail.

There will always be a black market for it though, taxes are the killer. I was amazed to find out that there is still a black market for moon shine in the south also. I thought that was yesteryear.

Im not sure I fully agree with the free market fixing the quality issues. There are some systemic insecticides that are very effective, but very bad for you and with no real easy way of knowing that it was used.

One more issues since Im thinking as Im writing is the corporatization of the weed market. There are huge corporations just waiting to get in the weed market. Once it goes full legal the legal mom and pop places will be run out of business.

 

[Sedatedfork]

If it were legal, would marijuana be QC'd by FDA due to medicinal benefits? Controlled by ATF? Interesting beureaucratic quandaries.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I was using dispensary prices, long term locals dont pay retail.

There will always be a black market for it though, taxes are the killer. I was amazed to find out that there is still a black market for moon shine in the south also. I thought that was yesteryear.

Im not sure I fully agree with the free market fixing the quality issues. There are some systemic insecticides that are very effective, but very bad for you and with no real easy way of knowing that it was used.

One more issues since Im thinking as Im writing is the corporation of the weed market. There are huge corporations just waiting to get in the weed market. Once it goes full legal the legal mom and pop places will be run out of business.

yeah..nice

oh, too late as far as the introduction of large scale production. I know of a guy that is in the process of producing up to 600k clones alone. I can see where monsanto or some like kind monstrosity would be in this with both feet if they were not afraid of the Fed. The average guy that is yielding half an ounce per plant off of his six plants on an eight to ten week cycle from clones is not going to have the quality of a grower that has max cards and is joined with other growers. Only when it is grown for profit does one usually see a standardization of product and maximization of production.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

No.

Care to contribute some reasoning?

 

[donkiez]

If it were legal, would marijuana be QC'd by FDA due to medicinal benefits? Controlled by ATF? Interesting beureaucratic quandaries.

My guess is that it will fall under OLCC control or whatever each state has, with a FED guideline as a minimum. FDA could be involved also, probably just follow suit with whatever governes cigarettes and alcohol, not sure exactly what their system is.

 

[donkiez]

yeah..nice

oh, too late as far as the introduction of large scale production. I know of a guy that is in the process of producing up to 600k clones alone. I can see where monsanto or some like kind monstrosity would be in this with both feet if they were not afraid of the Fed. The average guy that is yielding half an ounce per plant off of his six plants on an eight to ten week cycle from clones is not going to have the quality of a grower that has max cards and is joined with other growers. Only when it is grown for profit does one usually see a standardization of product and maximization of production.

Ive seen some pretty amazing set ups also. I think there is no way around the corporatizaion of this industry and I dont mind it to an extent, as you stated it will standardize quality and drive prices down, unfortunately government will make up for that in taxes. My real issue would be if they make it corporate but still try to restrict casual personal growers to make them pay retail. Some people consider it a great hobby in itself.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Here is an article that just came out yesterday on the ballot measure that will be coming up in November to legalize marijuana and opinions from two former prosecutors discussing if you should be allowed to grow it and how much you should be able allowed to grow:


Mark McDonnell, former chief of the drug unit at the Multnomah County District Attorney’s Office, and Norm Frink, former chief deputy district attorney, said marijuana legalization is inevitable, but New Approach Oregon's plan is deeply flawed.


http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2014/07/retired_multnomah_county_prose.html

Like I would give any credence to what these guys say. They made a living hurting innocent people for years and years.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Like I would give any credence to what these guys say. They made a living hurting innocent people for years and years.

Did you read what their concerns are? They bring up some good points.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Did you read what their concerns are? They bring up some good points.

I did, I don't think anything they said is really a big deal. Especially the tax revenue part, since I literally could not care less about that. The things like dosing and packaging are little things that will get worked out. I'm basically just against heavy regulation.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Did you read what their concerns are? They bring up some good points.

what I took away was he wanted more state control, less freedom for the growers, less freedom for those that chose to use...fuck the state, fuck the feds..greedy fucks. these are the same guys that want to introduce a bill that allows states to place tolls on existing interstate highways to raise the revenue to repair them..hmm what was that gas tax supposed to do?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

what I took away was he wanted more state control, less freedom for the growers, less freedom for those that chose to use...fuck the state, fuck the feds..greedy fucks. these are the same guys that want to introduce a bill that allows states to place tolls on existing interstate highways to raise the revenue to repair them..hmm what was that gas tax supposed to do?

I'm all for taxing the shit out of it. I generally support sin taxes. Money going to law enforcement and schools is a good thing.

Gas tax needs to be a percentage per gallon, not set cents per gallon. The gas tax has not gone up with inflation and the rise in price per gallon of gas.

 

[donkiez]

I'm all for taxing the shit out of it. I generally support sin taxes. Money going to law enforcement and schools is a good thing.

Gas tax needs to be a percentage per gallon, not set cents per gallon. The gas tax has not gone up with inflation and the rise in price per gallon of gas.

why not just pay for it with pension "smoothing"

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Monies generated in Colorado from pot tax

Those pot tax dollars are rolling in, and they don't show signs of letting up anytime soon.

The Colorado Department of Revenue in June collected slightly more in tax revenue than the month before, according to its recent sales report.

The state collected $4,775,679 from marijuana-related sales tax in June 2014, up from $4,511,668 collected in May 2014.

To date, Colorado has collected $25,307,067 in pot taxes. Officials projected the state would collect $60 to $70 million by the end of the fiscal year (June 2015).

 

[The_Lillard_King]

This is a huge problem in the legalization effort. Currently a heavy smoker in WA can get a DUI even if they haven't smoked in a day or two. There are also issues in determining what is a DUI because in test infrequent smokers get wasted with a few puffs and cant drive at all, while heavy smokers preform near normal very soon after smoking.

I don't see this as being a huge problem. There has to be some regulation to stop people driving under the influence on mj.

For alcohol the law is either you are impaired by the alcohol OR your blood alcohol level is above .08. Many alcoholics or people with high alcohol tolerance who are not feeling the effects of alcohol can have their BAC is above a .08.

I suspect it will be something similar with mj. Either you are effected by the mj or you smoked within the X amount of minutes before driving. There are tests these days that can determine how recently one has smoked.

I know that doesn't seem fair to the chronic user who isn't effected say 1 hour after smoking, but consistent and strict guidelines have to be set (like alcohol, .08 is a low level) to curb people smoking and driving.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Like I would give any credence to what these guys say. They made a living hurting innocent people for years and years.

Interesting take. Both have put many murders and rapist away for life and have fought hard to abolish the possibility of parole for certain people convicted of murder.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Care to contribute some reasoning?

way to busy hitting that fatty