Is it totally unheard of....

[Minstrel]

Since we are wool-gathering:

Let's say the owners get exactly what they want in the new CBA - nonguaranteed contracts, made retroactive.

In that scenario, the Blazers could save a big chunk of change by just releasing Roy outright. How would people respond to that? If the team had the option of saying "you are no longer worth your contract - good-bye" would people be outraged, or would they understand?

I'm pretty sure you cannot legally retroactively void binding contracts (unless there were shenanigans that suggest it was not mutually consensual at the time of signing). I'd say that would be pretty unethical, since it's not what the two parties agreed to.

If a player and team agreed to mutual options and the team said "Sorry, you're not worth it--goodbye," that would be perfectly fine. I don't believe either player or team owe the other sentiment. I do believe that both sides owe sticking to a binding contract that both agreed to.

 

[PapaG]

Why didn't the Blazers defy the CBA and demand in the media that Roy should get more money during his rookie deal, when Brandon was an All-Star 3 straight seasons? That would have been a nice goodwill gesture.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

He's not "apparently" a lesser player, Roy after 1 year on his contract has no explosive first step, anyone can guard him, he can't finish and he's never played defense. Now if he'd given this team say three good years on this contract that would be one thing, he knew his knees were crap and he was in pain, he didn't disclose how bad they were. I doubt KP or anyone would have maxed him knowing that year two he'd be a role player or even thought to come off the bench......

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Well I guess than the opposite should be true to...... Since he's been paid, shoot him up with cortisone nightly and ride him till he can't walk again! I say up his minutes to 38 and he'll have to medically retire within a year.... A contract is a contract right? I'd fire Nate bring in Nelly and run and gun like hell for the rest of the season... Problem solved!

 

[PapaG]

He's not "apparently" a lesser player, Roy after 1 year on his contract has no explosive first step, anyone can guard him, he can't finish and he's never played defense. Now if he'd given this team say three good years on this contract that would be one thing, he knew his knees were crap and he was in pain, he didn't disclose how bad they were. I doubt KP or anyone would have maxed him knowing that year two he'd be a role player or even thought to come off the bench......

He was an All-Star player and 3rd-team All-NBA after signing the extension. I'm guessing Roy thought he would continue to be that player, but you can continue to libel him by stating as fact that he is guilty of knowingly defrauding the team.

 

[oldmangrouch]

The owners aren't going to get the retroactive provision, but I'll play along. If Roy or any player in a non-guaranteed/NFL salary structure isn't performing up to their contract, I have no issues with that player being released. I'm a big fan of the NFL and the Raiders, and what you describe is commonplace in the NFL. It does lead to fans identifying less with a player than with the team, and there is a much larger of margin for error in releasing a player in the NFL due to roster size, but I'd be cool with it. I'm used to it already, and it does allow for much more team flexibility in terms of rebuilding.

Bullseye!

Some folks are acting like Roy is the victim of an ungrateful fan base. I don't see it that way. In the NFL, Roy would have been kicked to the curb, and nobody would think twice about it. If anything, Roy is one lucky so-and-so.

Oh, and I agree that it isn't going to happen!

 

[PapaG]

Well I guess than the opposite should be true to...... Since he's been paid, shoot him up with cortisone nightly and ride him till he can't walk again! I say up his minutes to 38 and he'll have to medically retire within a year.... A contract is a contract right? I'd fire Nate bring in Nelly and run and gun like hell for the rest of the season... Problem solved!

Well, that's one approach. I doubt the team will go that route, but you never know!

Of course, nightly cortisone injections is basically medical malpractice, so in the end, Roy would probably get even more money from the Blazers if they follow your hare-brained idea.

 

[RR7]

In the NFL Roy would have been kicked to the curb? Really? Why didn't NE cut Tom Brady after he went down for the season two years ago, or three or whenever the hell it was. they had a young guy in Cassel, totally could have built around. What idiots. I bet their fan base was pissed off that they hung on to him. I bet they were all calling to cut him. Same with Romo. Why has he not been cut yet? WTF?

 

[PapaG]

Bullseye!

Some folks are acting like Roy is the victim of an ungrateful fan base. I don't see it that way. In the NFL, Roy would have been kicked to the curb, and nobody would think twice about it. If anything, Roy is one lucky so-and-so.

Oh, and I agree that it isn't going to happen!

Well, I disagree in one way, because in the NFL, as a #7 pick, Roy would have actually been paid at a level much closer his production his first four years. It will be interesting to see how rookie contracts are affected by non-guaranteed deals. The rookie salary slotting will pretty much have to be eliminated, or at least the union should make that a demand. If contracts aren't guaranteed, then being drafted in the first round of the draft would actually be worse than being a 2nd round pick, at least for all but the very top picks.

 

[Minstrel]

In the NFL, the guaranteed money for top players comes in the form of huge signing bonuses. That money gets paid up front, in addition to yearly salaries. You can cut a player at any time, but they've already received a large chunk of the contract's value. For cap purposes, the signing bonus is considered to be divided evenly over the length of the contract...unless you cut or trade the player, in which case the remaining bonus money is "accelerated" to that year's cap figure. So it's not at all trivial to cut a highly paid player loose.

 

[PapaG]

In the NFL Roy would have been kicked to the curb? Really? Why didn't NE cut Tom Brady after he went down for the season two years ago, or three or whenever the hell it was. they had a young guy in Cassel, totally could have built around. What idiots. I bet their fan base was pissed off that they hung on to him. I bet they were all calling to cut him. Same with Romo. Why has he not been cut yet? WTF?

I'm not advocating that I would cut Roy now. In a year or two, then perhaps if it is clear he isn't up to his contract. The one part of the NFL structure that hasn't been mentioned is the guaranteed bonus money, which Roy would have received in a very large sum.

 

[PapaG]

In the NFL, the guaranteed money for top players comes in the form of huge signing bonuses. That money gets paid up front, in addition to yearly salaries. You can cut a player at any time, but they've already received a large chunk of the contract's value. For cap purposes, the signing bonus is considered to be divided evenly over the length of the contract...unless you cut or trade the player, in which case the remaining bonus money is "accelerated" to that year's cap figure. So it's not at all trivial to cut a highly paid player loose.

Heh. I posted just after you. Good call on including the cap ramifications of cutting a player, too.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

PapaG-

So I guess there's no way Brandon doesn't make out like a bandit on this deal for you, huh G? He doesn't have to live up to his contract meaning "FRANCHISE PLAYER", be an allstar ever again, do basically anything else hence forth and he's paid right? "BRANDON IS THAT YOU!"

hahahahaha!

 

[PapaG]

PapaG-

So I guess there's no way Brandon doesn't make out like a bandit on this deal for you, huh G? He doesn't have to live up to his contract meaning "FRANCHISE PLAYER", be an allstar ever again, do basically anything else hence forth and he's paid right? "BRANDON IS THAT YOU!"

hahahahaha!

The Blazers made out like a bandit during Roy's rookie contract. Since I don't recall you asking the team to try and pay him more, I can only assume that you are being a hypocrite. I also find your libeling of Roy way over the top, but if it is really your opinion that Roy knew for certain that he would be a lesser player over a year after signing his contract extension, and thus defrauded the team, then I don't have any actual proof (outside of common sense) that proves otherwise.

Is that "hahahahahaha!" at the end of your post supposed to be read in a Snidely Whiplash/sinister way, or in a "I am completely off my farking rocker" way? Either way, thanks for the idea for my new avatar!

 

[oldmangrouch]

In the NFL Roy would have been kicked to the curb? Really? Why didn't NE cut Tom Brady after he went down for the season two years ago, or three or whenever the hell it was. they had a young guy in Cassel, totally could have built around. What idiots. I bet their fan base was pissed off that they hung on to him. I bet they were all calling to cut him. Same with Romo. Why has he not been cut yet? WTF?

Because there is a difference between an injury that puts a guy out for a season, and a condition that is permanent? Just a thought.

 

[MickZagger]

My uncle signed a 4 year $12 mil deal with the Blue Jays in the early 90's. Pitched only 10 games with them, got a WS ring and then got really bad vertigo. They eventually bought him out and he got every penny of that contract. Its just the nature of the business.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

My uncle signed a 4 year $12 mil deal with the Blue Jays in the early 90's. Pitched only 10 games with them, got a WS ring and then got really bad vertigo. They eventually bought him out and he got every penny of that contract. Its just the nature of the business.

Scott Brow?

 

[PapaG]

Scott Brow?

It is. I've talked to Zags about this before.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I find all this talk about asking somebody to surrender millions of dollars of guaranteed money because they hurt themselves killing their body for their employer completely asinine. And anybody that says they'd do it themselves out of some kind of sense of loyalty or for ethical reasons if full of crap.

The bottom line is that it's his money that he earned with his play over the past 4 years, the team knew his knees were a problem when they gave him the extension, so anything that happens after that is completely on the organization. It's no different than a venture capitalist sinking millions of dollars into a startup company or an oil well, if the company goes tits up, or the well goes dry, those guys don't get their money back either. If the Blazers didn't want to be hamstrung with his contract then they shouldn't have offered it.

 

[Minstrel]

If the Blazers didn't want to be hamstrung with his contract then they shouldn't have offered it.

With all the injury issues this team has been grappling with, did you really think the franchise wouldn't eventually have a hamstring problem?

 

[Nikolokolus]

With all the injury issues this team has been grappling with, did you really think the franchise wouldn't eventually have a hamstring problem?

It was an unavoidable certainty.

 

[MickZagger]

Scott Brow?

Ken Dayley.

Pride of The Dalles Eagle Indians and Portland Pilots.

 

[PapaG]

Ken Dayley.

Pride of The Dalles Eagle Indians and Portland Pilots.

Damn it. Forgot the name. Ken Dayley was much better than Scott Brow, anyhow.

 

[spaceghost]

Ken Dayley.

Pride of The Dalles Eagle Indians and Portland Pilots.

Your uncle is Ken Dayley? Sorry to intrude, but as a Minnesota Twins fan as a young boy I will always remember that name. Game six of the 1987 World Series, first pitch Grand Slam to Kent Hrbek, I will never forget that moment. No disrespect to your uncle. I hope he is doing well. I imagine that vertigo cannot be fun. I just find it interesting that name should come up and you are end up being related.

 

[maxiep]

Caveat emptor. It's not like Brandon is pulling a Miles or a Ratliff.

 

[MickZagger]

Your uncle is Ken Dayley? Sorry to intrude, but as a Minnesota Twins fan as a young boy I will always remember that name. Game six of the 1987 World Series, first pitch Grand Slam to Kent Hrbek, I will never forget that moment. No disrespect to your uncle. I hope he is doing well. I imagine that vertigo cannot be fun. I just find it interesting that name should come up and you are end up being related.

Yup.

He also gave up the longest home run ever at Shea Stadium to Darryl Strawberry. Funny thing is, Strawberry was picked #1 and uncle Ken was drafted #3 in the '80 draft.

He's doing good. Living in the St. Louis area. I was just back there before Thanksgiving for my cousins birthday.