Is LA still untouchable?

[Denny Crane]

I'd do that if you throw in Victor Krappa.

Kobe stopper, fan favorite

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

He's our best defender next to Joel imo.

He's not a better defender than Oden or Batum. I don't even know if I'd say he's better than Roy defensively.

 

[MrJayremmie]

He obviously isn't untouchable... Roy isn't untouchable if we can get LeBron, but I wouldn't trade LMA. Bosh would probably leave, as would Amare. Other than those 2, not many young PFs i'd take over LMA. His game fits w/ Greg, and in a couple years they will be the best front court in the NBA.

 

[Nikolokolus]

He's not a better defender than Oden or Batum. I don't even know if I'd say he's better than Roy defensively.

If you really believe what you just wrote then you aren't watching the same games I am. LMA is not necessarily a good/great post defender but he's is very active with his hands, is good at funneling guys into help defenders, and is without a doubt our best perimeter defender.

If you don't believe me I'll direct your attention here: http://www.82games.com/0809/0809POR.HTM
and you can see for yourself what his presence and absence mean to the team (it's really simple: +7.8 when he's on the floor -7.7 when he's off).

 

[STOMP]

If you really believe what you just wrote then you aren't watching the same games I am. LMA is not necessarily a good/great post defender but he's is very active with his hands, is good at funneling guys into help defenders, and is without a doubt our best perimeter defender.

If you don't believe me I'll direct your attention here: http://www.82games.com/0809/0809POR.HTM
and you can see for yourself what his presence and absence mean to the team (it's really simple: +7.8 when he's on the floor -7.7 when he's off).

what chance do facts combined w/logic stand against blustering emotion?

Even if these Blazers turn into a consistent contender starting next year, I don't expect the complaining here to stop... not even if they win a championship or two. The same posters will still be calling the coach a moron, proposing ridiculous trades, and making ultimatums about must wins in December. We're treated to this sort on a daily basis despite the club being well ahead of most everyone's preseason predictions. Heck, this thread was started when LA has been trending up on his season stats going for 19.5 on 51% with 7.2 boards and over a steal and a block a game in the last 10 games. They are one of the youngest teams in the league starting 2 rookies with another in the rotation experiencing lots of success against the meat of their schedule and yet some posters want us to believe our glass is only half full... of piss.

LA is a very nice player with his best years ahead of him who fits well on both ends of the court. He has the reputation of being a hard worker and a popular player among his teammates. I'm sure KP would trade him for LaBron and a few others if they were offered up so he's not untradable... pretty much no one is. But as I'm looking at it, the grass on the Blazer side of the fence is about as green as it gets and LA has been playing great. I'm enjoying having the team way over 500 and looking like they're more likely to host the first round of the playoffs then miss them. I'm especially enjoying this considering the putrid Nash era which preceded this one. Life is good!

STOMP

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

If you really believe what you just wrote then you aren't watching the same games I am. LMA is not necessarily a good/great post defender but he's is very active with his hands, is good at funneling guys into help defenders, and is without a doubt our best perimeter defender.

I am watching the same games you are. LMA has been a big disappointment on defense, he hasn't lived up to his reputation at Texas. Yes he has long arms and busy hands and makes plays, but he is not consistent, he's not tough (in fact he's soft), he can't keep people in front of him, he's not blocking out, he's not rebounding up to his potential, he's not controlling space. He's simply not doing any of the things that great defensive big men do. And if by funneling to other defenders you mean getting out of the way and letting them right by then I agree. Defense is a well rounded skill, not just doing one or two things well occasionally. Nash gets a lot of steals, nobody would say he's even an average defender.

If you don't believe me I'll direct your attention here: http://www.82games.com/0809/0809POR.HTM
and you can see for yourself what his presence and absence mean to the team (it's really simple: +7.8 when he's on the floor -7.7 when he's off).

You're using a subjective expression (not a statistic) to prove you point? +/- stats are

Batum is by far this teams best defender, in fact he's probably a top-20 defender in the NBA right now. Joel and Oden can't guard and shut down any or all of Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Dwayne Wade, Tracy McGrady and really anybody in the NBA like Batum has done as a rookie. As soon as Batum is replaced by Outlaw or Rudy the entire teams defense immediately takes a dive. As soon as Batum was benched and taken off Wade, Wade went off and demolished the team. It happens against pretty much everyone Batum faces. He shuts them down, then he's replaced and that player goes off. People don't understand how good Batum is. He's equal to Kobe as a rookie prospect, IMO, and I watched every game of both of their rookie seasons.

When do we play the Cavs? I bet Batum does a great job on LeBron, then he's replaced and LeBron will tear up Rudy and Outlaw.

Only homers think LaMarcus Aldridge is a great defender. No other fan or analyst is going to make that claim, only homers.

 

[DaRizzle]

I bet Batum does a great job on LeBron

who's the homer?

Lebron has Batum by at least 50lbs (same height)and is just as fast if not faster...The only person who stops Lebron is Lebron

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

And seriously, even if Aldridge was a good perimeter defender, that's not what you want in a PF. It's a nice bonus, but you NEED interior defense from your POWER forward. Aldridge has been embarrassed repeatedly inside. Look at last season where he was so afraid of LeBron that he actually ducked in fear when LeBron went to dunk over him. Then on the game deciding drive instead of stepping inside to stop LeBron from taking an easy GAME WINNING LAYUP Aldridge decides to get out of the way and step outside, away from the basket.

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

who's the homer?

Lebron has Batum by at least 50lbs (same height)and is just as fast if not faster...The only person who stops Lebron is Lebron

I didn't say stop, I said he'd do a great job. Please work on your reading comprehension skills before posting in the Blazers forum.

 

[MrJayremmie]

what chance do facts combined w/logic stand against blustering emotion?

Even if these Blazers turn into a consistent contender starting next year, I don't expect the complaining here to stop... not even if they win a championship or two. The same posters will still be calling the coach a moron, proposing ridiculous trades, and making ultimatums about must wins in December. We're treated to this sort on a daily basis despite the club being well ahead of most everyone's preseason predictions. Heck, this thread was started when LA has been trending up on his season stats going for 19.5 on 51% with 7.2 boards and over a steal and a block a game in the last 10 games. They are one of the youngest teams in the league starting 2 rookies with another in the rotation experiencing lots of success against the meat of their schedule and yet some posters want us to believe our glass is only half full... of piss.

LA is a very nice player with his best years ahead of him who fits well on both ends of the court. He has the reputation of being a hard worker and a popular player among his teammates. I'm sure KP would trade him for LaBron and a few others if they were offered up so he's not untradable... pretty much no one is. But as I'm looking at it, the grass on the Blazer side of the fence is about as green as it gets and LA has been playing great. I'm enjoying having the team way over 500 and looking like they're more likely to host the first round of the playoffs then miss them. I'm especially enjoying this considering the putrid Nash era which preceded this one. Life is good!

STOMP

Spot on, my man.

 

[STOMP]

I didn't say stop, I said he'd do a great job. Please work on your reading comprehension skills before posting in the Blazers forum.

so in your world great doesn't equal or come close to meaning stop to the point you make this condescending response? How is anyone supposed to understand your posts when you have your own wacky meanings for words?

Personally I think LJ will toy with Batum and I'm a big fan of Nic's game. Dudes got too much size, explosiveness, skill, and respect from the refs for the skinny rookie to be expected to hang. Maybe someday but not now.

STOMP

 

[Kaydow]

I think we can bank on LA being in a Blazer uniform for a long time. He does a lot things well (if not spectacularly) and is a good character guy.

Untouchable? No. But it would take a pretty stacked deck for the Blazers to move him. Probably not going to happen.

I'm cool with that. I like LA's game. I think he would be even better if we had another scorer/playmaker. If LA isn't a good 2nd scoring option than he's probably a 2b (not 2a) meaning there are stretches that he can be a 2nd option, just not for 82 games.

 

[MARIS61]

Can we NOT call him "LA" please?

I thought this was another anal-rape thread about Kobe.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Not trying to stir the pot, but after last night's game did anyone's mind change from an earlier opinion about Bosh vs. LMA?

 

[Nikolokolus]

I am watching the same games you are. LMA has been a big disappointment on defense, he hasn't lived up to his reputation at Texas. Yes he has long arms and busy hands and makes plays, but he is not consistent, he's not tough (in fact he's soft), he can't keep people in front of him, he's not blocking out, he's not rebounding up to his potential, he's not controlling space. He's simply not doing any of the things that great defensive big men do. And if by funneling to other defenders you mean getting out of the way and letting them right by then I agree. Defense is a well rounded skill, not just doing one or two things well occasionally. Nash gets a lot of steals, nobody would say he's even an average defender.

You're using a subjective expression (not a statistic) to prove you point? +/- stats are

First of all +/- is an actual objective statistic, there's nothing qualitative or subjective about it; it very simply measures the the change in margin of a lead/deficit when a player is on/off the court. Secondly, it's mostly used to measure the defensive impact a player has on the court (does the team squander leads when they are on/off the court or not?). Lastly, I never said LMA is a great defensive player, I said he's not a great post defender, but is an excellent perimeter defender; overall I'd say he's a good weak side shot blocker, a smart help defender, and does just OK denying deep post position, but if you actually spent time watching him on the defensive end, he does a very good job cutting off dribble penetration forcing players to shoot over him. That's not a fabrication, that's just the simple truth.

Batum is by far this teams best defender, in fact he's probably a top-20 defender in the NBA right now. Joel and Oden can't guard and shut down any or all of Chris Paul, Steve Nash, Dwayne Wade, Tracy McGrady and really anybody in the NBA like Batum has done as a rookie. As soon as Batum is replaced by Outlaw or Rudy the entire teams defense immediately takes a dive. As soon as Batum was benched and taken off Wade, Wade went off and demolished the team. It happens against pretty much everyone Batum faces. He shuts them down, then he's replaced and that player goes off. People don't understand how good Batum is. He's equal to Kobe as a rookie prospect, IMO, and I watched every game of both of their rookie seasons.

When do we play the Cavs? I bet Batum does a great job on LeBron, then he's replaced and LeBron will tear up Rudy and Outlaw.

Only homers think LaMarcus Aldridge is a great defender. No other fan or analyst is going to make that claim, only homers.

Batum has great defensive tools (along with Oden) but hasn't been particularly adept at applying those physical tools on a consistent basis (he fouls a lot, he loses his concentration frequently). The notion that he's a top 20 defender right now is simply not backed up by any observable facts. And you accuse me of being a homer and subjective?

Do yourself a favor and look the stats for LMA and Batum over, you might as well arm yourself with facts if you're going to argue something.
Aldridge: http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR9.HTM
Batum: http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR6.HTM

 

[STOMP]

Can we NOT call him "LA" please?

I thought this was another anal-rape thread about Kobe.

good grief Maris it's an abrieviation of his name... we do the same for every player in discussing them and it isn't going to stop. And thanks for throwing out the completely appropriate anal-rape reference... everyone likes reading that in a basketball forum.

STOMP

 

[MARIS61]

good grief Maris it's an abrieviation of his name... we do the same for every player in discussing them and it isn't going to stop. And thanks for throwing out the completely appropriate anal-rape reference... everyone likes reading that in a basketball forum.

STOMP

LMA is usually what Blazers fans use, as most regard any reference to LA as an insult.

And yes, as long as Kobe is a major promotion of the NBA it's completely appropriate to refer to his behavior.

 

[alex42083]

Untouchable? No, like others have said.
But he possesses All-Star level type talent. LaMarcus tends to disappear offensively but when he's out, you notice it especially on the defensive end. I think his defense has improved a ton this season, and he's done a great job against opposing team's post players.
I love what LMA has brought this year. The only issue I have is we start the game by posting him up and involving him more in the offense early in games, but we go away from it for some reason the rest of the game. I'd love to see us go to our bigs more on the post, ie LMA and Greg, to take some pressure off Brandon.

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

First of all +/- is an actual objective statistic, there's nothing qualitative or subjective about it

Incorrect. It does not take into account who else was on the court on either team. It's not a serious statistic, just a tool, which you are misusing. +/- and PER is the worst thing to happen to basketball forums ever. Everybody thinks their an expert now using made up stats that don't accurately reflect reality.

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

The notion that [Batum's] a top 20 defender right now is simply not backed up by any observable facts. And you accuse me of being a homer and subjective?

Name me 19 other players that can shut down Wade, CP3, TMac and Nash. Name me 19 other players that can be put on the other teams best player regardless of their position. Batum is truly a rare talent.

 

[DaRizzle]

Name me 19 other players that can shut down Wade, CP3, TMac and Nash. Name me 19 other players that can be put on the other teams best player regardless of their position. Batum is truly a rare talent.

lol..wow...

Against POR:

Nash 20/7/3
Nash 15/11/1
Wade 36/6/8
CP3 17/6/9
Tmac 30/7/8


In your defense: (but not really)
Nash16/7/3
CP3 16/6/6
Wade 12/6/6

So Batum didnt "shut down" anybody...but is your definition of "shut down" different from everyone else's?

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

lol..wow...

Against POR:

Nash 20/7/3
Nash 15/11/1
Wade 36/6/8
CP3 17/6/9
Tmac 30/7/8


In your defense: (but not really)
Nash16/7/3
CP3 16/6/6
Wade 12/6/6

So Batum didnt "shut down" anybody...but is your definition of "shut down" different from everyone else's?

You're posting their entire game stats. That doesn't really make sense does it? You're holding it against Batum that he scored against players while he was on the bench or guarding someone else?

Wade tore up Portland once Batum went to the bench. Batum was causing him all kinds of problems before that.

 

[DaRizzle]

You're posting their entire game stats. That doesn't really make sense does it? You're holding it against Batum that he scored against players while he was on the bench or guarding someone else?

Wade tore up Portland once Batum went to the bench. Batum was causing him all kinds of problems before that.

Well I cant argue against you on that since Im sure you have seen much more POR games than me...take that one up with the POR locals

 

[RayDavies]

LaMarcus is one of our best defenders when focused. The problem is, he occasionally drifts during games, esp. when his offense isn't flowing. Nobody is untouchable in every situation, but it would take a very nice player coming back to us to replace LMA.

I wouldn't mind David West at PF for a little more toughness.

LMA is one of my favorite Blazers though... and seemingly one with substantial upside even after a couple years in the league.

 

[STOMP]

LMA is usually what Blazers fans use, as most regard any reference to LA as an insult.

sorry but you're wrong. Many/most blazer fans aren't so small minded as evidenced by the multiple Blazer fans right here that use it. Its not going to change and I could care less if you're insulted by an abrieviation of a players name... thats on you

as long as Kobe is a major promotion of the NBA it's completely appropriate to refer to his behavior.

ahhh irony

STOMP

 

[Denny Crane]

LMA kind of reminds me of Bill Cartwright. I do think LMA has a nice post up kind of game, but like Cartwright, he's playing alongside a stronger C type and his rebounding numbers suffer. I happen to think Cartwright was a pretty awesome player in his prime, though he rebounded about 8 per game.

If the Blazers had drafted Durant and kept Randolph, the front line would have been KD, Randolph, and LMA at C. At least that is how I'd see it. And LMA would have much better rebounding numbers.

As it is, he's developing his game to be complimentary to a true C alongside him, and he's doing great, IMO.

 

[Mediocre Man]

People that want to trade Aldridge crack me up


Most any team in the league would have given up a lot to have Sheed without the mental madness. Aldridge has better numbers than Sheed did in his third year.


I'd love it if Aldridge would average more rebounds, but really it's not like he's a bad rebounder. He blocks out his man and relys on others to rebound. Maybe his fault is thinking his teammates are better than they are.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Incorrect. It does not take into account who else was on the court on either team. It's not a serious statistic, just a tool, which you are misusing. +/- and PER is the worst thing to happen to basketball forums ever. Everybody thinks their an expert now using made up stats that don't accurately reflect reality.

Obviously you don't know the difference between quantitative and qualitative statistics, +/- is simply a raw number devoid of any meaning added, it doesn't measure "immeasurable" things. I never said +/- was the be all end all statistic, but it is in point of fact a useful additional tool if you want to evaluate a player's impact on defense. Beyond the use of stats, I can tell you that I watch LMA on the defensive end quite a bit and it's not an accident that he ends up switched on to point guards a lot; he's good at disrupting their passing lanes and cutting off dribble penetration. I don't need +/- to tell me that I see it with my own eyes. And when did I bring PER into the argument?

I suppose you're going to call me a "daft cunt" any time now?

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

Obviously you don't know the difference between quantitative and qualitative statistics, +/- is simply a raw number devoid of any meaning added

Then why are you adding meaning and stating it as fact?

it doesn't measure "immeasurable" things.

Nothing I said was immeasurable.

I never said +/- was the be all end all statistic

You may not have directly said it, but the way your phrased it and continue to phrase and use it you are ACTING like it's the be all end all. You defense to the death over the matter just further solidifies your meaning. Right now you're like Clemens fighting to the death that he didn't take steroids. Whatever. You misused the stat and I called you out on it. Now you're trying to wiggle away.

 

[Drink Your Milkshake]

So what does this +/- statistic tell you about the Blazers Finnish PG? Seriously, this is evidence that +/- is almost worthless. People who use +/- as their PRIMARY AND ONLY stat to make a point are obviously reaching as far as possible.

petteri got a season high 20 minutes of playing time sunday, when la fortezza won at cantu 87-69. he had 4 points, 1 rebound and 1 assist. that doesn't look too good, but what's interesting is that he recorded a team high +23 in the +/- statistic.