Natebishop3
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He talks about Rolo pretty much every chance he can.
Is Lillard our MVP?
- Thread starter BrianFromWA
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He talks about Rolo pretty much every chance he can.
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So, Lillard is the MVP because when he decides to score, the team loses?
What the fuck is this thread supposed to be about? I love Damian, he's my favorite PG in the NBA and he deserves to be, and will be, and All-Star, but the purpose of this entire thread is basically a textbook example of concern trolling an entire board.
What the fuck is this thread supposed to be about? I love Damian, he's my favorite PG in the NBA and he deserves to be, and will be, and All-Star, but the purpose of this entire thread is basically a textbook example of concern trolling an entire board.
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Hobbesarable
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What are you trying to say.
Yeah, that one.
Natebishop3
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Seems like a legit topic of discussion. Which player do people think is the MVP? Just because you think it's clear that LA is the MVP doesn't mean everyone agrees with you.
Hobbesarable
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Sounds like nap time.
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No, it's that he plays all-worldly when the team is losing. As opposed to many other players on the team...as I'm sure you could have deduced from the OP had you cared to discuss it.
As in the OP "Is Damian actually the team's MVP?"
I love LMA, he's my favorite PF in the league and deserves to be, and will be, an All-Star, but the purpose of this thread is to point out that Damian has made a huge leap in his game and I question whether he's actually the team's MVP. Seems pretty straightforward. You can agree or disagree, as many have.
I leave whether it's concern-trolling to others more versed in trolling. I wouldn't know.
Natebishop3
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Different people have different reasons... like I said, they bring different things to the table. LA is our rock. He's consistent. We know what we're going to get from him. I think Brian's point about how Dame plays better when we're losing is because he takes it upon himself to try to generate offense when nothing else is going in. That's a commendable quality as well, and it's one that has gotten us some wins, not just losses.
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To throw out another stat (unrelated to the OP): of Damian's 6 best games this season (as determined by Win Score), the team is 1-5.
Edit: Anyone know how to do that formatting thing to get tables to line up? I think Nik does it sometimes...
Edit: Anyone know how to do that formatting thing to get tables to line up? I think Nik does it sometimes...
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It's not the topic, it's the weird reasoning behind it.
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Is this supposed to buttress your opinion? I really don't have a clue what the point of this thread is, in terms of your use of stats.
Because one could look at those stats and say that when Lillard tries to do more than he should, it's at the detriment of the team's success. Not unlike a Westbrook to LMA's Durant. Both are great players, but one is the absolute leader and MVP, while the other is more of a sidekick who hurts the team when he tries to do too much.
RR7
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Commendable quality. Sure. But if you look for MVP consideration, generally, and by generally, I mean always, it goes to a guy on a winning team. Not a guy that put up good stats for a loser. Kevin Love has some good stats this year. What separates him from LMA in getting MVP consideration? One of them putting them up while losing. I like that Dame tries to will us back in games, takes over 4th quarters. But it jus doesn't seem to lead to wins when he does it. Like I said earlier, maybe it's waiting to long in the game, I dunno. But I can't see how reasoning for an MVP could fall to...look how well he plays when we lose. Because that doesn't seem to equate to the V in MVP, IMO.
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No. Which is why I said "To throw out another stat (unrelated to the OP)".
See? Now you're crafting a counterargument!
If he was "trying to do too much" and not pulling it off, I could understand that. That's what RW does. In OKC's 22 losses last year, he shot over 50% in 5 of them. He shot under 30% in 9 of them. In only 1 game did he have <16 shots.
In POR's 9 losses this year, LMA has averaged just as many shots and has very similar shooting stats (~1% off). So Damian is not stealing shots from LMA (as you're asserting RW did to Durant). In losses Nic, Wes and Mo all have significantly lower shot %s and stats across the board. Dame's the only one who goes up in losses. Is that "taking over too late", as others say? Dunno. Is it getting too K*be-ish so that others stagnate and suck when they do get the ball? Dunno. Hence, the question.
I don't have enough backing to make it a statement ("Dame is actually our MVP, bitches!"), but there's enough curiosity about this particular phenomenon (and the ones in the L-train thread) to make me ask the question to others who follow the team ("Is Lillard our MVP"?). Some have pointed out sample size. Some have pointed out that he's not helping get wins, no matter how well he plays. Some say that he's acting detrimentally to the team. But it was meant to be (and I think, turned out to be) a decent lazy-weekend and off-day topic.
blazerboy30
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A reasonable topic for discussion even though I think it isn't even close in favor of LMA.
Maybe you accidentally posted those original stats in the wrong thread? Or maybe you were answering your own question in the negative?
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Nope, it was more of doing some research for the LMA thread and finding that he hadn't appreciably improved at all on the offensive end. Then the thought became "why are we so much more improved on offense"? Then it became what happens in our losses/when the offense isn't doing well? Then "when the team needs it (in losses), who steps up"?
That's all. I can't answer either way positively that Lillard is a team cancer ballhog at times, or that he's the only thing keeping us from being blown out by 20 and out of more games. Hence, the question.
Maybe it was the wrong stat at the wrong time--but did anyone else have on their radar that, in our losses, Dame's doing something that no one else in history has done (27ppg, 50%3pt)? Or when we lose, is the opinion "Effing Lillard! Why was he jacking up so many shots?!"
That's all. I can't answer either way positively that Lillard is a team cancer ballhog at times, or that he's the only thing keeping us from being blown out by 20 and out of more games. Hence, the question.
Maybe it was the wrong stat at the wrong time--but did anyone else have on their radar that, in our losses, Dame's doing something that no one else in history has done (27ppg, 50%3pt)? Or when we lose, is the opinion "Effing Lillard! Why was he jacking up so many shots?!"
RR7
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I don't think that losses are when the team needs it, and it's then stepping up, though. Or, rather, that's not the only time. Being down by 20 and launching 3s might make stats look nice for guys, but down 20 in the 4th, does any team really NEED a big push to lose by 5 or 6? Not to say I want guys rolling over, but going off down 20 to make it look respectable isn't IMO stepping up when your team needs you. We all know he,a s well as LMA, Nic and Wes have all stepped up in more important times when the team needs them. I just don't think that scoring in losses shows what you're wanting or thinking it does. I dunno though.
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I look at it as the team losing, and not blaming it on any one player. I tend to like watching team basketball, which is what is making this year so fun to watch as a fan. This team is as good at moving the ball as any team in the league, and their spacing most of the time is a thing of beauty.
Natebishop3
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Is he really doing more than he should though? He doesn't usually try to take over unless it's one of those games where nobody is scoring. Sometimes he turns it on too late and he can't dig us out, but I haven't seen him shoot us out of a game. At least not that I can remember.
BlazerCaravan
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His big improvements have been in the assist, rebound, and turnover areas. Turnovers going way down is the biggie, imho, because it's happening as his usage is going up.
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agree that turnovers going down is a plus, but from 8% to 7%? The question that puzzled me was his assist rates/and overall assists, which are still the same. It intrigued me because it looks like he's passing better out of the double-teams (when they happen) than in previous years. It also could be that he's getting "hockey assists", but I haven't (don't know if anyone else has) quantified that. But in the last dozen or so games, teams haven't been bringing the double team (this is another thing I've been looking at today, but have to wait until the kids are done watching their shows to get to the DVR) as much--I'd surmise because they'd rather let LMA shoot the jumper if he's not going inside (as he abused Diaw and Duncan for a few possessions last night) than to double and let him pass out to an open Lillard or Wes (who shoot the 3pt jumper better than LMA shoots the 2pt jumper). 
Rebounding, as I've said, is only on the defensive end (not to pooh-pooh it, it's great, but it doesn't necessarily help with our jump in offensive efficiency to #1). And I don't think anyone (but Denny
) is saying that we're 30-9 because of our improved defensive rebounding.
Rebounding, as I've said, is only on the defensive end (not to pooh-pooh it, it's great, but it doesn't necessarily help with our jump in offensive efficiency to #1). And I don't think anyone (but Denny
) is saying that we're 30-9 because of our improved defensive rebounding.
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agree that turnovers going down is a plus, but from 8% to 7%? The question that puzzled me was his assist rates/and overall assists, which are still the same. It intrigued me because it looks like he's passing better out of the double-teams (when they happen) than in previous years. It also could be that he's getting "hockey assists", but I haven't (don't know if anyone else has) quantified that. But in the last dozen or so games, teams haven't been bringing the double team (this is another thing I've been looking at today, but have to wait until the kids are done watching their shows to get to the DVR) as much--I'd surmise because they'd rather let LMA shoot the jumper if he's not going inside (as he abused Diaw and Duncan for a few possessions last night) than to double and let him pass out to an open Lillard or Wes (who shoot the 3pt jumper better than LMA shoots the 2pt jumper).
Rebounding, as I've said, is only on the defensive end (not to pooh-pooh it, it's great, but it doesn't necessarily help with our jump in offensive efficiency to #1). And I don't think anyone (but Denny
I didn't say anything like that. What I wrote is that the defensive rebounding is the biggest change in his game. The record seems to be from having an actual bench with good players on it, and Stotts' schemes a year more advanced.
Lillard's PER is +4 over last year, LMA +3.
Matthews +3.5, too.
Batum +.8
The team defense is improved, too.
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I was responding to BlazerCaravan.
But you're right, I wonder how much being in the 2nd year of the scheme is working for the COre Four.