Is Shabazz a starting quality PG?

[hoopsjock]

WTF?! We stretched Varejo to 20-21? Hey I guess its Allen's money. (Shrugs)

It doesn't cost Allen money. Stretched players are paid their money upfront. The stretched amount is simply what it counts towards the cap each year, not what Allen has to pay him. In fact it probably saved Allen money because stretching contracts allowed us to get under the luxury tax the last two seasons otherwise he would have had to pay tax.

 

[hoopsjock]

Is it actually possible to remove dead cap space somehow?

I am not even sure waiving and stretching Nicholson over 7 years was a good decision. We did the same with Varejao which made absolutely zero sense at the time as he was expiring after a year anyway I think. Nicholson would have been $6M a year for 3 more years (who gave him that deal?) but after two we would have probably offloaded him as an expiring.

I forgot to mention that stretching Varejao gave us the roster spot to accept Brian Roberts as well. The Heat still owe us a 2021 2nd round pick because of this. That might not sound significant but that's still a future asset that hasn't come to fruition yet.

All for Caleb Swanigan..

It also helped us get closer to the salary cap floor. I'd take an extra 1st round pick for $1.9 million against the cap every year.

 

[kjironman1]

Napier has a QO of 3.4 Million. He is projected to go up 46% as a 24th pick. He will be 5+ million a year.
Serviceable rotational backup that this team needs. Match all offers and keep him around is my thinking.
@hoopsjock ..... Is that what you got also? Can they do it?

 

[Boob-No-More]

It doesn't cost Allen money. Stretched players are paid their money upfront. The stretched amount is simply what it counts towards the cap each year, not what Allen has to pay him. In fact it probably saved Allen money because stretching contracts allowed us to get under the luxury tax the last two seasons otherwise he would have had to pay tax.

The problem is, it will eventually catch up with us. It helped us squeak under the tax line the past two seasons, but after resigning Nurk (and others) this coming summer, we will be way over the tax threshold for several years, incurring repeat offender penalties at a higher tax rate on those $1.9 million and $2.8 million stretched contracts.

Still, I agree it was the right thing to do at the time. Of course, in the case of Nicholson, Neil forced his own hand by grotesquely overspending in the summer of 2016. In hindsight, all of Crabbe, Turner, Leonard and Ezili were bad to terrible signings. Dumping Crabbe and stretching Nicholson was Neil's temporary "solution" to postpone paying the piper for one more year.

BNM

 

[kjironman1]

The problem is, it will eventually catch up with us. It helped us squeak under the tax line the past two seasons, but after resigning Nurk (and others) this coming summer, we will be way over the tax threshold for several years, incurring repeat offender penalties at a higher tax rate on those $1.9 million and $2.8 million stretched contracts.

Still, I agree it was the right thing to do at the time. Of course, in the case of Nicholson, Neil forced his own hand by grotesquely overspending in the summer of 2016. In hindsight, all of Crabbe, Turner, Leonard and Ezili were bad to terrible signings. Dumping Crabbe and stretching Nicholson was Neil's temporary "solution" to postpone paying the piper for one more year.

BNM

It already has "caught up". It's just wading through the mess. But yes you have a point here.

 

[JDC]

Shabazz has played well this year. Just wish he used his speed more to start drive and kick sequences and gambled less on defense.

1 v 1 shot creation and pesky on ball defense is where his value lies right now. Too small and not enough playmaking to be a starter though.

 

[hoopsjock]

Napier has a QO of 3.4 Million. He is projected to go up 46% as a 24th pick. He will be 5+ million a year.
Serviceable rotational backup that this team needs. Match all offers and keep him around is my thinking.
@hoopsjock ..... Is that what you got also? Can they do it?

Not that it really matters but his cap hold number is $7,084,080. The Blazers could give him a max contract if they wanted to so yes they can match anything.

The qualifying offer you mention is important and is an often overlooked factor from the RFA signings of 2016. If you were Napier you wouldn't sign a 3 year, $10 million contract because you could just accept the qualifying offer and make your $3.4 million for a year and hope to improve on those offers next year. This is especially true if the player believes they are better than the offers they are getting. The only type of player that would accept the 3 years, $10 million offer in those situations are ones that aren't sure if they can stay in the league and therefore want 3 years of guaranteed money.

I'm guessing the offers would have to be a minimum of $5 million per year to get Napier to be interested. Somewhere between 2 years, $10 million and 3 years, $21 million would be my guess.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Not that it really matters but his cap hold number is $7,084,080. The Blazers could give him a max contract if they wanted to so yes they can match anything.

The qualifying offer you mention is important and is an often overlooked factor from the RFA signings of 2016. If you were Napier you wouldn't sign a 3 year, $10 million contract because you could just accept the qualifying offer and make your $3.4 million for a year and hope to improve on those offers next year. This is especially true if the player believes they are better than the offers they are getting. The only type of player that would accept the 3 years, $10 million offer in those situations are ones that aren't sure if they can stay in the league and therefore want 3 years of guaranteed money.

I'm guessing the offers would have to be a minimum of $5 million per year to get Napier to be interested. Somewhere between 2 years, $10 million and 3 years, $21 million would be my guess.

It will be interesting to see what kind of offers he gets. There will be teams with cap space (or the full MLE) that need a starting PG. He wouldn't be a starter on a contender, but would be a step up for several lower tier teams, which also happen to be the teams that usually have the most cap space to burn.

BNM

 

[hoopsjock]

The problem is, it will eventually catch up with us. It helped us squeak under the tax line the past two seasons, but after resigning Nurk (and others) this coming summer, we will be way over the tax threshold for several years, incurring repeat offender penalties at a higher tax rate on those $1.9 million and $2.8 million stretched contracts.

Still, I agree it was the right thing to do at the time. Of course, in the case of Nicholson, Neil forced his own hand by grotesquely overspending in the summer of 2016. In hindsight, all of Crabbe, Turner, Leonard and Ezili were bad to terrible signings. Dumping Crabbe and stretching Nicholson was Neil's temporary "solution" to postpone paying the piper for one more year.

BNM

But isn't paying the tax pretty much inevitable when you have two guys taking up half of the cap? Each year the cap goes up the dead money only accounts for a small percentage of the cap which isn't preventing us from signing anyone anyway. Sure it could end up costing Allen more money in the end but he's going to get a pretty good tax payment this year from the teams that are over the line. I think as long as this season doesn't end with a thud Allen is planning on going All-In for Dame's supporting cast this summer anyway so he won't mind paying.

It sucks that having no cap space in 2016 would've been better than having some. It's also weird that making 4 terrible moves in one off season still has the team in a better position than teams who made big moves in 2017 like OKC who got two All-Star level players along with just about every other team in the West that made big changes. It makes me think that it isn't quite as bad as we think it is.

 

[blue9]

Yes and no. I don't think he's much worse than Isaiah Thomas (better defense, better teammate). So if Thomas is a starter, then sure - why not? However, I wouldn't want either to be MY starting PG.

 

[BBert]

If Baldwin can contribute anywhere "close" to what he did last night we keep him and let Bazz go IMO, he has size and can drive the ball really well, also I hope Pat C is gone next yr as well

Baldwin better spend the summer putting up 1000 three pointers a day if that's the case.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not on a serious contender

I said yes. Because not all teams are contenders and I think he could be better than some of them who are currently starting in this league. I mean he only has to be better than a couple of them in order to be starter quality himself, right?
His starting numbers, as @Natebishop3 noted, are darned good overall. I think his inconsistency stems from inconsistent minutes.
He he knew he was starting every night, I think he would be fine overall... just not for a true contender, like us.

 

[Scalma]

Baldwin better spend the summer putting up 1000 three pointers a day if that's the case.

I would just tell Wade to hang around Dame all summer. He’s got two sons now.

 

[kjironman1]

It's also weird that making 4 terrible moves in one off season still has the team in a better position than teams who made big moves in 2017 like OKC who got two All-Star level players along with just about every other team in the West that made big changes. It makes me think that it isn't quite as bad as we think it is.

Exactly my thinking. So many including myself that they were more hamstringed than they are showing to be.
Lots felt a major move needed to happen just to get to this point. Now it seems a minor upgrade here and there and this team in a contender.

 

[tester551]

How so? We still wouldn’t have cap space.

Cap space is irrelevant here.

Portland wouldn't be paying $20M ($3M/year for the next 6 years!) for him NOT to play for us.

Like it or not, the teams finances always play a part in the decisions that are made by the FO.

 

[kjironman1]

Baldwin better spend the summer putting up 1000 three pointers a day if that's the case.

His numbers suck but i was actually pretty surprised by his shot. Of course his free throws were off also. But shooting is something that can be worked on.

 

[CupWizier]

His numbers suck but i was actually pretty surprised by his shot. Of course his free throws were off also. But shooting is something that can be worked on.

I know the college 3 point line is much easier, but he shot 42% in 2 college seasons so it shows that he has the touch. A little work and he could turn into a solid player.

 

[Scalma]

I know the college 3 point line is much easier, but he shot 42% in 2 college seasons so it shows that he has the touch. A little work and he could turn into a solid player.

And he’s a good free throw shooter. Most of his troubles shooting are off the dribble.

 

[kjironman1]

I know the college 3 point line is much easier, but he shot 42% in 2 college seasons so it shows that he has the touch. A little work and he could turn into a solid player.

Everything i watched last night tells me he has a bunch of tools that can be worked on. Will they develop him? Not sure? Need minutes to develop. Pat is approaching the 2000 min level which is usually when the game slows down a bit. Seems like Baldwin could use next year to improve. Hope he gets a chance.

 

[kjironman1]

And he’s a good free throw shooter. Most of his troubles shooting are off the dribble.

Maybe not last night so much 4-7 but his stroke looked good. So that also would be an experience thing.

 

[Duckhook]

Shabazz has helped win us some games this year. I like him when we have a triple threat at the guard positions - he seems to make the right pass/shot when he's the 3rd/4th/5th option. I really did like Baldwin's game last night - but would need a bigger sample size from him before I'd pass on 'bazz.

 

[CupWizier]

Everything i watched last night tells me he has a bunch of tools that can be worked on. Will they develop him? Not sure? Need minutes to develop. Pat is approaching the 2000 min level which is usually when the game slows down a bit. Seems like Baldwin could use next year to improve. Hope he gets a chance.

I think a lot will depend on what Shabazz is willing to re-sign for. It's nice to have a player that might be able to slip into that role at a very low cost if the price for Shabazz is too high. They obviously saw something in him to hang onto him as a 3rd point guard. It will be interest to see if he gets more opportunity this year.