Is the bloom off the Rose?

[Wheels]

or if Batum were given more shots.

this right there NEEDS to happen next year.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Why aren't those things bankable in the post-season? Aren't the playoffs supposed to favour teams that get to the line and rebound like madmen?

Fouls tend to dry up somewhat in the playoffs ... or they are at least called a lot more loosely, with a lot more contact allowed. Secondly, playoff teams are usually decent at boxing out and rebounding (otherwise they probably wouldn't be a playoff team), which means if your offense is predicated on crashing the boards after misses to corral the loose ball and get a second shot there probably won't be as many opportunities as you might see over the course of 82 games against a mix of bad and good teams with varying degrees of length and skill.

Also, I think it was predicated on getting good shots. One thing I will admit, Blake helped that. He could space the floor and shoot open threes. I don't think that's the most valuable skill, or the hardest to find, but the team is missing it. It would help if Webster or Rudy were knocking down their open shots, or if Batum were given more shots.

Floor spacing was a real problem this year, but even with Blake in the lineup for 40+ games this team had trouble getting clean looks a good deal of the time. I dunno, I just want to see guys actually setting good hard screens, moving off the ball when the ball handler is operating, reversing the ball better and generally getting more people involved in something where guys don't stand around on the perimeter and watch.

 

[hasoos]

At the same time, why can't we get a PG who can do both things? Why do we always get a PG who is one dimensional. Ok this guy can penetrate the paint and get assist, but can't hit an outside jumper to save his life. This guy can hit an outside jumper at a high rate, but can't penetrate the lane or make good decisions.

Why the fuck can't we get a player who is well rounded?

The reason Miller wasn't in the games a lot near the end, is because to take advantage of a big man switch to your point guard, you need to have an outside shot to take full advantage. If you don't have an outside shot, they just sag off you and make you ineffective. I talked about this when we got Miller. I said at some point that teams will sag off him and beg him to shoot outside shots. I like Andre Miller in many ways. But unless he has a pick and roll player to work with, it is hard for him to play his game.

Now part of this, was because Aldridge is not an effective paint player. He never put himself in position to take the pressure off of Miller. When you have no face up game, and you catch the ball out on the perimeter, all you are doing is making it easy for the defense. What is the first thing they teach big man defenders? Make your opponent catch the ball as far away from the hoop as possible. Lamarcus is a big man defenders wet dream. He catches it 18 feet out, and has no face up game. So now what happens? Well that perimeter player who needs spacing to be effective, is basically within arms reach. Teams can double team Lamarcus, and double team our perimeter players with minimal effort, and switch back and forth quickly because of the bad spacing. This is no mystery as to why the team struggles when Lamarcus gets double teamed. The problem is the motor of the PF. It only runs for a quarter or so per game. It may be a glorious quarter he has, but for the rest of the game, you aren't going to get much out of him.

 

[Minstrel]

Fouls tend to dry up somewhat in the playoffs ... or they are at least called a lot more loosely, with a lot more contact allowed. Secondly, playoff teams are usually decent at boxing out and rebounding (otherwise they probably wouldn't be a playoff team), which means if your offense is predicated on crashing the boards after misses to corral the loose ball and get a second shot there probably won't be as many opportunities as you might see over the course of 82 games against a mix of bad and good teams with varying degrees of length and skill.

I'm not sure how relevant this is. It's not about absolute values, it's about relative values. As in, yes, the team won't get AS many free throws and AS many offensive rebounds as they do against the league as a whole, because the competition has upgraded. But they should still be as far ahead of their playoff opponents as the stats suggest. Do you have any reasoning as to why gaps between playoff teams in terms of free throws and offensive rebounding would close?

Floor spacing was a real problem this year, but even with Blake in the lineup for 40+ games this team had trouble getting clean looks a good deal of the time. I dunno, I just want to see guys actually setting good hard screens, moving off the ball when the ball handler is operating, reversing the ball better and generally getting more people involved in something where guys don't stand around on the perimeter and watch.

I'd like to see more movement in the offense, too. I think it would play to the strengths of all the players on the team (this is my main frustration with McMillan). But I think that by and large, McMillan's emphasis on limiting turnovers, getting high percentage shots and hitting the offensive boards also fit in pretty well with the strengths of the team (so long as Oden and either Przybilla or Camby are there and Roy is healthy).

 

[Minstrel]

At the same time, why can't we get a PG who can do both things? Why do we always get a PG who is one dimensional. Ok this guy can penetrate the paint and get assist, but can't hit an outside jumper to save his life. This guy can hit an outside jumper at a high rate, but can't penetrate the lane or make good decisions.

Why the fuck can't we get a player who is well rounded?

Because point guards who have the entire offensive skillset (penetration, vision, passing and shooting) are rare and teams don't let them get away.

If you luck out and get one in the draft, great. It's just very hard to do that if you don't pick in the top-five. And once a player is proven capable of all those things in the NBA, they are rarely available. Nash and Billups are like the only two examples I can think of in the past decade or so who became available, and both were due to massive mistakes (IMO) by their GM/owner.

 

[Blaze01]

You cannot win an NBA title with the type of offense Portland is currently running...come on now.

Look at how many easy\open shots Phoenix was getting and compare it to the Blazers, who struggled MIGHTLY to generate offense...

You cannot win playoff games consistently if you don't generate easy scoring opportunities...

The offense has to change...the "iso" sets that we run are pathetic, even Roy as good as he is can't consistently beat double and triple teams, and our spacing is bad, recongition of double team...slow reactions there (Aldridge in particular), very little movement...and this early or late in the shot clock mantra is pure bullshit...

early, when do the Blazers initiate early? Since they don't like to run, they very rarely initiate early...and late is a pure disaster aganinst good defenseive teams or teams that prepare well for Portland. How many forced shots with 2-3 seconds left in shot clock do some of you have to see before you admit that is not good offensive basketball? Those are the types of shots you WANT to force opposing offenses into, not RELY on for offense yourself....Seriously it has become ridiculous...

Did anyone listen to Alvin Gentry speak last night? It was embarassing to hear a coach say that by taking away 2 things from our offense they essentially negated our best plays? Is that all Nate and crew can come up with?

Very frustrating watching Phoenix tear our defense apart while creating ridiculously easy scoring opportunities and they in essence (the defensive juggernauts they are) completely shut the Blazers down or force difficult shots....

We need better offensive sets and may need better offensive players as well...

 

[Idog1976]

Forget our first-round loss against Phoenix. I'm actually more concerned about the long-term future of this team. It seems to me that a lot of questions were answered this year, and none of the answers are very encouraging:

Oden (whom we thought would lead us to several titles) is terribly injury-prone and may never have much of a career. He just may be the second coming of Sam Bowie, as painful as that is.

Aldridge (like the tin man in the Wizard of Oz) simply has no heart.

Roy, despite his brilliance, has more limitations than we realized. Four years into his career, he is still way too tentative at the start of games, and seems reluctant to take charge. We may have already seen the best of his game.

Fernandez, Webster, and Bayless all have serious limitations. I don't see any of them ever becoming a major piece of the puzzle.

Batum still has a nice upside, and may eventually become a star. Time will tell.

Miller, Camby, and Howard are solid, seasoned pros, but all of them are on the downside of their careers. If we don't win a title in the next two years, they probably won't be around for it.

In short, it's a grim picture, compared to what we thought we had in this team. I hope I'm wrong. I hope Oden comes back strong and has a great career, and Aldrige learns how to play a power game, and Roy keeps getting better and better.

I hope, I hope, I hope . . .

What an incredibly depressing post! I disagree strongly on virtually everything you said. For one Roy is still injured I don't care what he says it's not conditioning that was his problem. I was at 2 of the 3 playoff games and can say the from watching. He wasn't quick to begin with , like a player out of condition would be, then lagging. He was slow from start to finish. His knee is still clearly bothering him.

Rudy is limited. I agree with that.

Webster was amazing in game 6 and kept us in the game with great defense and an offensive mindset. He's no Chris Paul obviously but I think he is an excellent backup 2/3 and 2nd defender after Batum. What's more he seems to have accepted this role and looks more confident then ever.

I agree Batum could be a star especially defensively.

Bayless is getting better all the time and is an ideal back court mate for Roy barring a huge upgrade like Collison or Paul. Those are likely pipe dreams. Bayless only needs 4 to 5 assists a game if he starts with Roy.

The biggest problem this year is McMillan had very little to work with and was force to use akward lineups.

I love Miller, but he simply is not a good choice next to Roy. We need another guard who can hit the three consistently. I think Bayless could be that guy.

Aldridge I tend to agree with you about although he could be perfect next to Oden if they ever get to play together. Pulling out the PF who would double Oden on the block. He lacks heart and I feel is our best trade chip, but only for a star like CP3 etc.

That leaves me with Oden. Yes he has had some phenomenally heart breaking injuries and that could continue. Other then that and foul problems he was looking great right before he went down in December. I feel his ceiling is as high as ever. If he can stay healthy then I think we will be a real contender.

Things aren't NEARLY as bad as you make them out to be. With the most snakebit team I've EVER seen suit up for the Blazers we still won 50. Think about that.

 

[Idog1976]

You cannot win an NBA title with the type of offense Portland is currently running...come on now.

Look at how many easy\open shots Phoenix was getting and compare it to the Blazers, who struggled MIGHTLY to generate offense...

You cannot win playoff games consistently if you don't generate easy scoring opportunities...

The offense has to change...the "iso" sets that we run are pathetic, even Roy as good as he is can't consistently beat double and triple teams, and our spacing is bad, recongition of double team...slow reactions there (Aldridge in particular), very little movement...and this early or late in the shot clock mantra is pure bullshit...

early, when do the Blazers initiate early? Since they don't like to run, they very rarely initiate early...and late is a pure disaster aganinst good defenseive teams or teams that prepare well for Portland. How many forced shots with 2-3 seconds left in shot clock do some of you have to see before you admit that is not good offensive basketball? Those are the types of shots you WANT to force opposing offenses into, not RELY on for offense yourself....Seriously it has become ridiculous...

Did anyone listen to Alvin Gentry speak last night? It was embarassing to hear a coach say that by taking away 2 things from our offense they essentially negated our best plays? Is that all Nate and crew can come up with?

Very frustrating watching Phoenix tear our defense apart while creating ridiculously easy scoring opportunities and they in essence (the defensive juggernauts they are) completely shut the Blazers down or force difficult shots....

We need better offensive sets and may need better offensive players as well...

This is a big part of the problem. Nate = good on defense and terrible on Offense. We really need an assistant coach who understands how to run an offense. We need the A-team to kidnap Tex Winter and bring him on board, I suppose that might require a time machine...

At any rate we need help with our coaching staff. Not sure there is an AVAILABLE coach who is better then Mac much as he drives me berserk.

Unless folks are willing to roll dice with Bill Laimbeer...

 

[maxiep]

Evaluating this team based on this year is nuts. We lost to Phoenix for one simple reason: The playoffs are about matchups and our three advantages--Roy, our physical low-post players and Batum--we either sitting in street clothes or severely diminished. Fuck, just give me a healthy Roy and we win that series in six games.

 

[tlongII]

You really think the way this team operates on offense is top 3 worthy? I mean I guess it's possible that they just had too many setbacks due to injury, but even if they were to post a top 3 record in the west I have serious doubts about their ability to go far in the playoffs ... they remind of Dallas in that respect: jumper happy, not exactly a physical team but with more isos and less player movement.

If nothing significant changes over the summer this will once again be a really nice regular season team, but will not in my opinion be a dominant playoff team with the way they play on offense (and defense for that matter).

If we're healthy we'll be the best team in the West next year. I have no doubt about that. With Oden, Camby, Batum, and Aldridge we will dominate every team in the frountcourt. The key is to stay healthy.

 

[Blaze01]

just give me a healthy Roy and we win that series in six games.

Not even a healthy Roy is going to consistently beat double\triple teams....

Housten proved that last year...

 

[Minstrel]

Not even a healthy Roy is going to consistently beat double\triple teams....

Housten proved that last year...

No, they didn't. Roy consistently beat their double-teaming and had an incredible series. Portland lost that series because they couldn't stop Yao and their other players didn't do much on the offensive end, despite often being open. Had Portland's complementary players knocked down open shots, the Blazers would have won and the story would have been how even double-teams couldn't stop Roy and Houston's gamble cost them the series.

 

[maxiep]

Not even a healthy Roy is going to consistently beat double\triple teams....

Houston proved that last year...

If Roy is healthy, the Suns would have to completely change their defense. You couldn't put Richardson or Hill on Miller without paying a huge price. Nash would have been exposed. Roy also controls the pace of the game better than any player we have.

I stand by my statement. And you probably shouldn't compare Houston's defense last year with the Suns' defense this year (or any year).

 

[Blaze01]

Your both wrong...

What "easy shots" does POR offense create? Or do you really believe that everyone standing around, watching Roy try to go 1v2 and either hoping he converts a tough shot or bailing out to another player and hoping they create a shot with less than 3 seconds left in the shot clock....

It is absolutely a terrible offensive philosophy...if you can even call it that....and you cannot win an NBA championship relying on it...

 

[oldmangrouch]

If Roy is healthy, the Suns would have to completely change their defense. You couldn't put Richardson or Hill on Miller without paying a huge price. Nash would have been exposed. Roy also controls the pace of the game better than any player we have.

I stand by my statement. And you probably shouldn't compare Houston's defense last year with the Suns' defense this year (or any year).

The other way to look at the situation: The Blazers (as a whole) looked worse while playing against an inferior defense.

 

[e_blazer]

I didn't see anything inferior about the Suns' defense. They've improved dramatically.

 

[Idog1976]

I felt the same this year, that Roy had peaked. I hope I'm wrong but I think we know what we're getting out of him for the rest of his career.

I have mixed feelings on both Fernandez and Bayless. There was that one point toward the end of the first quarter last night when J Rich tweaked his leg after getting off to that ferocious start. It seemed to throw him off a little and Portland came down on offense and J was guarding Roy on the wing. Bayless had the ball above the top of the key and was pounding the ball and I was literally shouting at the TV to pass to Roy so he could attack the injured man. The ball went a different direction. I know it's only one play but it was a microcosm of the Blazers' and particularly Bayless' decision making. Roy should have been demanding the ball and wasn't. Bayless should have sent it over immediately and didn't.

We were so sick of the Jail blazers and wanted nice guys. Here we've got them, but they're too nice to play NBA ball.

Um, Roy was barely functional by Roy standards in that game. Bayless needs to work on his decision making to be sure, but I'm not sure that play is a good example of that.

 

[Idog1976]

Evaluating this team based on this year is nuts. We lost to Phoenix for one simple reason: The playoffs are about matchups and our three advantages--Roy, our physical low-post players and Batum--we either sitting in street clothes or severely diminished. Fuck, just give me a healthy Roy and we win that series in six games.

Absolutely agree with this and well said.

 

[Idog1976]

If we're healthy we'll be the best team in the West next year. I have no doubt about that. With Oden, Camby, Batum, and Aldridge we will dominate every team in the frountcourt. The key is to stay healthy.

Well said. Absolutely correct. The only team I worry about is the Thunder :/

 

[WillG]

we definitely have a talented team, it's just that McMillan doesn't extract the best from them.

It doesn't matter how talented a player you are; if you stand still on the spot on offense, you 'aint gonna do shit all.
Simple.

 

[Stevenson]

The question is - which of these players belong on a championship roster?

Roy - Yes
LMA - NO as the #2 option. Yes as a #3 option. This is the biggest flaw in the game plan IMO
Batum - Yes
Miller - ??
Camby - yes, but onlly as a backup PF / ctr
Oden - TBD

Rudy - no
Bayless - yes
Martelll - yes a as backup 3

So the questions are HUGE - Oden and LMA, 2 of the golden 3, may not be championship material. Troubling.

 

[Idog1976]

The question is - which of these players belong on a championship roster?

Roy - Yes
LMA - NO as the #2 option. Yes as a #3 option. This is the biggest flaw in the game plan IMO
Batum - Yes
Miller - ??
Camby - yes, but onlly as a backup PF / ctr
Oden - TBD

Rudy - no
Bayless - yes
Martelll - yes a as backup 3

So the questions are HUGE - Oden and LMA, 2 of the golden 3, may not be championship material. Troubling.

I agree with this. Oden has had flashes of absolute dominance especially defensively and on the boards. I also think he could be a legit #2 option after Roy. If I knew for sure about Oden I would trade LMA for either a starting PF defensive specialist or a PG of the future/present. We would need to replace LMA at the PF as well obviously. Not sure how this could be accomplished and I wouldn't trade LMA until AFTER at least one full season and post season of a Healthy Oden 72+ regular season games and great showing in playoffs. Until we know about Oden, LMA remains a quandry unless a no brainer comes along.

 

[Shooter]

We lost to Phoenix for one simple reason: The playoffs are about matchups and our three advantages--Roy, our physical low-post players and Batum--we either sitting in street clothes or severely diminished. Fuck, just give me a healthy Roy and we win that series in six games.

I'm not so sure.

Phoenix really excels at getting easy shots for their big men. Portland does not. Aldridge loves to take the fall-away jumper from 18 feet, and when he's cold, it kills our offense.

Nash is a great point guard who knows how to find the open man and create his own shot. We simply have no one like that.

Roy, as brilliant as he is, goes for long stretches without contributing much, especially at the beginning of games.

Finally, we just don't have enough good shooters, whereas Phoenix has a bunch of them. Our biggest problem is that we are a jump-shooting team without very good jump shooters.

 

[maxiep]

The other way to look at the situation: The Blazers (as a whole) looked worse while playing against an inferior defense.

What can I say? We miss a healthy Brandon Roy, Nico Batum, Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla.

 

[STOMP]

This isn't a young team anymore.

a majority of their core is at most half way through their respective careers. Maybe this comes down to how the individual fan defines young...

to the OP, I recall when all you'd post about was how embarrassed you were about the behavior to the team and how great it would be to support a group of guys who you could support. Can't say I'm surprised to see you still complaining after getting what you claimed to want

STOMP

 

[craigehlo]

What can I say? We miss a healthy Brandon Roy, Nico Batum, Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla.

Weren't all those guys healthy when we got beat by Houston last season in the playoffs? There's more to the team's dysfunction than injuries.

 

[STOMP]

Weren't all those guys healthy when we got beat by Houston last season in the playoffs? There's more to the team's dysfunction than injuries.

Greg was "healthy" but he wasn't 2/3rds the guy he was this season... neither was Batum or Bayless. Besides, wasn't Houston beating the eventual world champs when Yao went down? They didn't exactly suck. You are misusing the word disfunction. Life isn't static and guys age and come into and grow out of the prime years of their careers. Portland's core is just starting to enter theirs

STOMP

 

[Shooter]

To the OP, I recall when all you'd post about was how embarrassed you were about the behavior to the team and how great it would be to support a group of guys who you could support. Can't say I'm surprised to see you still complaining after getting what you claimed to want.

Let me get this straight. Because I once complained about having thugs and criminals on the team, I no longer have the right to point out problems with the current team?? Is that really your argument? I hope not, because that's incredibly weak.

The fact is, Oden turned out to be extremely injury prone. He was a great pick for this franchise, and I applaud Pritchard's decision, but he has not had the kind of career we all thought he would. Facts are facts. That's one of the biggest reasons why the bloom is off the rose.

Aldridge has also had a somewhat disappointing career. He's a nice player, with a great shooting touch, but not much of a rebounder, and he's too prone to playing outside rather than inside. This has nothing to do with whethere he's a high-character guy, which he certainly is. But again, facts are facts.

I won't repeat all of the reasons why the team is falling short, but it's certainly not because Portland is now drafting high-character players instead of thugs. The fact that you still seem to be pining for Rashweed Wallace and Bonzi Wells and every other jerk who ever played for this team says more about you than anything else.

 

[ripcity67]

We win the NW division next year with our without Oden. I believe PA's money will have us be active this offseason and we get a player in a sign and trade or just for the MLE that gives us the low post scoring set we need. Roy was banged up so we could not abuse Nash's defense liability. Bayless was wild, but I thought he came along ways and proved to me that he will be a facotr for this team going forward. Rudy on the other hand should be paired with JP expiring contract to bring in a player in a sign and trade.

 

[STOMP]

Let me get this straight. Because I once complained about having thugs and criminals on the team, I no longer have the right to point out problems with the current team?? Is that really your argument? I hope not, because that's incredibly weak.

once? you started a new thread listing the same litany of complaints 2-3 times a week for years. In most every single one you'd talk about how wonderful it would be to have a team of guys you could support. Of course you (and anyone) can complain I just find it funny that you got what you claimed to want in 10,000 threads you started and yet are still complaining.

The fact that you still seem to be pining for Rashweed Wallace and Bonzi Wells and every other jerk who ever played for this team says more about you than anything else.

what in the world are you basing this on? I like this team and in fact made multiple posts hoping to acquire each of the 4 best young talents (Roy, LA, Nic, Greg) prior to their respective drafts. With quite a few others, I pined for Miller going into last offseason's Free Agency and cheered the midseason trade for Camby. I predict big things next year if the club enjoys a season of relative health. I'm hoping the team stays relatively pat with the roster because I believe in the current talent.

it's pretty clear who Sheed and the glorious feeling of looking down their nose. Bringing up your old punching bag out of the blue when no one else has mentioned him in forever isn't too subtle. Since you asked, I think he's old and mediocre now... I'd be pretty meh about it if the club acquired him. Bonzi has been out of the league for years now with bad knees... thats surely not what I'm pining for. I value current talent that can win

STOMP