OT Is the OT Section fixable?

[Further]

I don’t know.

I know I have baited folks at times so I’m to blame too, I think most of us share blame.

Putting blame aside, can we fix this section?

Can we read posts and answer them in earnest instead of immediately trying to figure out how we can turn a phrase or assign some BS the other person has to defend?

Can we make posts that aren’t black and white, where gradations exist? Politics and ethics often live in grey regions yet many here are always completely Group A or Group B on every topic.

Can we post articles and dissect topics because they are interesting to explore and not because we want to put someone in a box?

I have belonged to this community in some way or another for well over a decade but it has lost its appeal. I don’t know how to fix it. I want debate, I want differing points of views, I want smack talk and jocular banter but what it’s turned into is two sides talking over each other, both thinking the other side 1) always wrong, 2) out to get them, 3) stupid and 4) overly reactionary. I want nuance and discovery.

Is there a way to fix S2 OT? Please give ideas because I’m very frustrated and I don’t like seeing my community like this.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

No.

 

[Hoopguru]

I don’t know.

I know I have baited folks at times so I’m to blame too, I think most of us share blame.

Putting blame aside, can we fix this section?

Can we read posts and answer them in earnest instead of immediately trying to figure out how to how we can turn a phrase or assign some BS the other person has to defend?

Can we make posts that aren’t black and white, where gradations exist? Politics and ethics often live in grey regions yet many here are always completely Group A or Group B on every topic.

Can we post articles and dissect topics because they are interesting to explore and not because we want to put someone in a box?

I have belonged to this community in some way or another for well over a decade but it has lost its appeal. I don’t know how to fix it. I want debate, I want differing points of views, I want smack talk and jocular banter but what it’s turned into is two sides talking over each other, both thinking the other side 1) always wrong, 2) out to get them, 3) stupid and 4) overly reactionary. I want nuance and discovery.

Is there a way to fix S2 OT? Please give ideas because I’m very frustrated and I don’t like seeing my community like this.

Thanks for your post. Many people today are very polarized and want win at the cost of tearing someone down or simply not respecting another point of view.
I think the only way to get this section back on track is for everyone to dig down and grab some courtesy and respect.
It's ok to take exception or disagree with whatever you want just do it with class and composure.
Blessed are the peacemakers, they are special!

 

[MarAzul]

Please give ideas because I’m very frustrated and I don’t like seeing my community like this.

Well, politics is somewhat a vent for some of us. Of course we all know when we have serious business to attend to, then we work like hell to find a way to communicate with the person we are attempting to deal with at the moment. Many of us even try to learn as much about human character traits as possible
so that we can avoid tripping over predictable responses of other people, when you should be able to see it coming. Hard to make a profit or even earn your keep when you alienated half your potential clients due to your own ineptitude and lack of knowledge.

I would say that knowing the possible character traits of people and the end result you can expect for people with such traits is required for successful dealing with other people. Not only do you need to know the other guy, but yourself even more, and honestly so.

In Politics today we are actually fairly appropriately divided alone predictable character trait lines. That does not mean we can not work together to seek mutual interest and even work to achieve satisfying those interest. But as it stands today, we avoid doing this.

And we avoid doing so in social media, including this little chat room. I think I do fairly well understand you Further, what interest do we have in common here? It ain't going to be the Impeachment of Trump. But... perhaps...

 

[Hoopguru]

I remember during my youth that some of my best friends , turned out to be guys I would bump heads with and a few I couldn't stand. Amazing what a little teamwork can do in conciliating and mediating relationships.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don’t know.

I know I have baited folks at times so I’m to blame too, I think most of us share blame.

Putting blame aside, can we fix this section?

Can we read posts and answer them in earnest instead of immediately trying to figure out how to how we can turn a phrase or assign some BS the other person has to defend?

Can we make posts that aren’t black and white, where gradations exist? Politics and ethics often live in grey regions yet many here are always completely Group A or Group B on every topic.

Can we post articles and dissect topics because they are interesting to explore and not because we want to put someone in a box?

I have belonged to this community in some way or another for well over a decade but it has lost its appeal. I don’t know how to fix it. I want debate, I want differing points of views, I want smack talk and jocular banter but what it’s turned into is two sides talking over each other, both thinking the other side 1) always wrong, 2) out to get them, 3) stupid and 4) overly reactionary. I want nuance and discovery.

Is there a way to fix S2 OT? Please give ideas because I’m very frustrated and I don’t like seeing my community like this.

Unfortunately, there are some who just want to see the world burn man. And sometimes it happens in microcosms. Not giving validation or the okay, but its just a fact. Some people want to find ways to argue about a post, completely dismissing the bulk, or meat of it, but hang on one or two words as the foundation of thier argument/debate.

I don't have multiple accounts, I have ONE other account. Don't spread lies!!!

But the reality is there is more than one account. So now a new thread and a bunch of bullshit over semantics because one person cant just admit he has another account.

When people like that enter this forum, it really gets ugly. Some of us like to stand up to things like this. Some of us were brought up to not ignore the negative because then it can grow, and were taught to stand up to this BS to quell it from growing. Call the fakes out so they don't fake out more people.

To ignore evils is to be evil yourself, no?

So really. If it can be fixed, it starts with people who do this, checking themselves and those who react to it(me, as well as others) checking them selves. But the initiation should always be considered more of an issue than those who respond, in my opinion.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don’t know.

I know I have baited folks at times so I’m to blame too, I think most of us share blame.

Putting blame aside, can we fix this section?

Can we read posts and answer them in earnest instead of immediately trying to figure out how to how we can turn a phrase or assign some BS the other person has to defend?

Can we make posts that aren’t black and white, where gradations exist? Politics and ethics often live in grey regions yet many here are always completely Group A or Group B on every topic.

Can we post articles and dissect topics because they are interesting to explore and not because we want to put someone in a box?

I have belonged to this community in some way or another for well over a decade but it has lost its appeal. I don’t know how to fix it. I want debate, I want differing points of views, I want smack talk and jocular banter but what it’s turned into is two sides talking over each other, both thinking the other side 1) always wrong, 2) out to get them, 3) stupid and 4) overly reactionary. I want nuance and discovery.

Is there a way to fix S2 OT? Please give ideas because I’m very frustrated and I don’t like seeing my community like this.

The problem is that I think a lot of those who frequent OT do like seeing it the way it is. They'd rather it be combative than conversational.

Tough to fix something if not all the stakeholders agree that it's broken.

 

[MarAzul]

Unfortunately, there are some who just want to see the world burn man. And sometimes it happens in microcosms. Not giving validation or the okay, but its just a fact. Some people want to find ways to argue about a post, completely dismissing the bulk, or meat of it, but hang on one or two words as the foundation of thier argument/debate.

I don't have multiple accounts, I have ONE other account. Don't spread lies!!!

But the reality is there is more than one account. So now a new thread and a bunch of bullshit over semantics because one person cant just admit he has another account.

When people like that enter this forum, it really gets ugly. Some of us like to stand up to things like this. Some of us were brought up to not ignore the negative because then it can grow, and were taught to stand up to this BS to quell it from growing. Call the fakes out so they don't fake out more people.

To ignore evils is to be evil yourself, no?

So really. If it can be fixed, it starts with people who do this, checking themselves and those who react to it(me, as well as others) checking them selves. But the initiation should always be considered more of an issue than those who respond, in my opinion.

If I understand what prompted your post, I don't thing you will find but one fix. It is the same as mine. Avoid!!!

 

[MarAzul]

They'd rather it be combative than conversational.

I am not so sure that is the case.
I do think some people insist they have the right to say what they wish, and insist on doing so even when they know it is not cordial or wanted by all.
And very likely of zero benefit to any even if it is agreeable to some.

Free speech, is not always wise speech, and even wise speech is not always necessary speech, and necessary speech is not always well received. You likey will receive the response you desire.

 

[DUB]

Make a sub forum of the OT forum called Politics. All clearly political threads go in there, leaving the main OT forum for discussing things like other sports, film, TV, music, food, etc. Mods move any threads created in the wrong forum, or threads that start apolitical but become political, into the Politics sub forum.

Doesn’t fix the political discourse on RC2, but it does let us discuss other OT topics without being swamped by a wave of partisan politics. Right now barely anything else gets posted/discussed, and many posters won’t even come into the OT forum; this solution would hopefully fix that at least.

Once we are talking about things other than politics, maybe we find more common ground in other areas, and the political discourse becomes slightly more respectful. This approach was the only thing that worked in an Australian Football forum I post in.

 

[MarAzul]

Make a sub forum of the OT forum called Politics. All clearly political threads go in there, leaving the main OT forum for discussing things like other sports, film, TV, music, food, etc. Mods move any threads created in the wrong forum, or threads that start apolitical but become political, into the Politics sub forum.

Doesn’t fix the political discourse on RC2, but it does let us discuss other OT topics without being swamped by a wave of partisan politics. Right now barely anything else gets posted/discussed, and many posters won’t even come into the OT forum; this solution would hopefully fix that at least.

Once we are talking about things other than politics, maybe we find more common ground in other areas, and the political discourse becomes slightly more respectful. This approach was the only thing that worked in an Australian Football forum I post in.

Good Post Dub.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Make a sub forum of the OT forum called Politics. All clearly political threads go in there, leaving the main OT forum for discussing things like other sports, film, TV, music, food, etc. Mods move any threads created in the wrong forum, or threads that start apolitical but become political, into the Politics sub forum.

Doesn’t fix the political discourse on RC2, but it does let us discuss other OT topics without being swamped by a wave of partisan politics. Right now barely anything else gets posted/discussed, and many posters won’t even come into the OT forum; this solution would hopefully fix that at least.

Once we are talking about things other than politics, maybe we find more common ground in other areas, and the political discourse becomes slightly more respectful. This approach was the only thing that worked in an Australian Football forum I post in.

Or people can just skip over political posts and start new threads that they see fit. Its not that hard.

 

[Strenuus]

Or people can just skip over political posts and start new threads that they see fit. Its not that hard.

What hes saying is those threads are the ones that are getting lost in the shuffle because of all the political talk.

If we put a sub forum for politics, then those other ideas will stay on the front page more and may lead to healthier discourse and mutual bonds.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

What hes saying is those threads are the ones that are getting lost in the shuffle because of all the political talk.

If we put a sub forum for politics, then those other ideas will stay on the front page more and may lead to healthier discourse and mutual bonds.

There are threads on this front page going back to Friday. They arent getting lost, people just don't care to post

 

[Hobbesarable]

I don’t know.

I know I have baited folks at times so I’m to blame too, I think most of us share blame.

Putting blame aside, can we fix this section?

Can we read posts and answer them in earnest instead of immediately trying to figure out how we can turn a phrase or assign some BS the other person has to defend?

Can we make posts that aren’t black and white, where gradations exist? Politics and ethics often live in grey regions yet many here are always completely Group A or Group B on every topic.

Can we post articles and dissect topics because they are interesting to explore and not because we want to put someone in a box?

I have belonged to this community in some way or another for well over a decade but it has lost its appeal. I don’t know how to fix it. I want debate, I want differing points of views, I want smack talk and jocular banter but what it’s turned into is two sides talking over each other, both thinking the other side 1) always wrong, 2) out to get them, 3) stupid and 4) overly reactionary. I want nuance and discovery.

Is there a way to fix S2 OT? Please give ideas because I’m very frustrated and I don’t like seeing my community like this.

First thing I learned about the OT section: don't take it so seriously. In time, I also learned which posters were wanting to have actual conversations and those who weren't.

I just kind of roll with the punches and laugh my ass off.

 

[MARIS61]

It ain't broke, so stop trying to fix it. It remains the only forum on S2 where one can speak their mind about just about anything.

With Denny's sudden death, the OTB was suddenly deluged with politically-biased excessive censoring and even some trolling of conservatives by those mods who stole his throne.

The OTB never had much moderating before Denny died, and it worked fine. Perfectly, I would say. If some weakling got offended they simply didn't come here anymore.

Worked fine for everyone.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If some weakling got offended

 

[Chris Craig]

It ain't broke, so stop trying to fix it. It remains the only forum on S2 where one can speak their mind about just about anything.

With Denny's sudden death, the OTB was suddenly deluged with politically-biased excessive censoring and even some trolling of conservatives by those mods who stole his throne.

The OTB never had much moderating before Denny died, and it worked fine. Perfectly, I would say. If some weakling got offended they simply didn't come here anymore.

Worked fine for everyone.

Denny Died?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Denny Died?

No, Denny did not die.

 

[MARIS61]

Make a sub forum of the OT forum called Politics. All clearly political threads go in there, leaving the main OT forum for discussing things like other sports, film, TV, music, food, etc. Mods move any threads created in the wrong forum, or threads that start apolitical but become political, into the Politics sub forum.

Doesn’t fix the political discourse on RC2, but it does let us discuss other OT topics without being swamped by a wave of partisan politics. Right now barely anything else gets posted/discussed, and many posters won’t even come into the OT forum; this solution would hopefully fix that at least.

Once we are talking about things other than politics, maybe we find more common ground in other areas, and the political discourse becomes slightly more respectful. This approach was the only thing that worked in an Australian Football forum I post in.

Mods already "move" (bury) threads to derail them when they don't fit the mod's political view. It is impossible to make any reference to the entertainment industry as you suggest without politics entering the thread. All entertainers now think they are political experts and many are running for office. Most are rabid anti-Americans supporting a socialist coup of our country.

Politics interweave throughout every aspect of our society and our lives. You can't put them in a corner. You'd need hundreds of mods and be forced to move every single thread at some point.

For those who don't want their views challenged there's the ignore button, a feature I've never used. Most posters like this board as evidenced by the hundreds of posts many threads get.

 

[Chris Craig]

No, Denny did not die.

I didn't think so

 

[Further]

Goodbye

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[tlongII]

Why does it need to be fixed?

 

[Stevenson]

I sincerely don't understand this phenomenon that folks like @MARIS61 kvetch about - having their threads locked and moved. In a decade here, it's never happened to me, or really, any folks I know. It also has nothing to do with Denny (or whatever his name is now) being gone. The mods here are fair -- IF you play by the rules. Actually, they are always fair. They are great. The problem is that some people here don't like playing by the rules, so they violate them, then predictably they get their wrist slapped, and then they get to cry even more about how they are a victim.

The problem with the OT, at least for me, is that it has become boring.

Same folks making the same arguments, including me. I won't debate anything anymore with Marzy or Maris for example because it just goes nowhere, or maybe downhill. Sorry, it's true. Its masturbatory as folks really don't want to learn anything new or revise their thinking, so what is the point of debating? And plenty here just don't know how to debate in good fun. Look at @barfo - he gets it; it's just a friggin Internet board people. LIGHTEN UP. Have some fun.

The only OT threads that are fun any more are the non-political ones -- best movies, TV shows, first cars, etc.

And it's too bad we can't talk politics civilly, well, not we, but some of you. You spoil it for the rest of us.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Politics are fun if your side is winning. Look at how engaged the Kavanaugh hearings thread was. After confirmation, not as interesting.

Left leaners were downright giddy with the prospect of Mueller putting Donnie and Donnie Jr in jail. That was also misguided, so we have threads like this again.

 

[MarAzul]

I won't debate anything anymore with Marzy

Aw! I will miss you. And @Further too.

 

[Lanny]

Mods already "move" (bury) threads to derail them when they don't fit the mod's political view. It is impossible to make any reference to the entertainment industry as you suggest without politics entering the thread. All entertainers now think they are political experts and many are running for office. Most are rabid anti-Americans supporting a socialist coup of our country.

Politics interweave throughout every aspect of our society and our lives. You can't put them in a corner. You'd need hundreds of mods and be forced to move every single thread at some point.

For those who don't want their views challenged there's the ignore button, a feature I've never used. Most posters like this board as evidenced by the hundreds of posts many threads get.

I would like this post except that I don't believe the mods do anything because of their political views. I see them as acting because of the forum rules.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I would like this post except that I don't believe the mods do anything because of their political views. I see them as acting because of the forum rules.

You're both wrong. We're all solely motivated by greed.

 

[Road Ratt]

It seems to me that people all over the internet have forgotten what manners are. I also think many have forgotten that here in America, due to freedom of speech, we all have the right to our own opinion. Your opinion is worth no more than any other American's opinion is. If you believe otherwise, than maybe you should rethink what country you should be supporting. When you attack another American for their opinion, it is an attack on freedom. It is this freedom that allows all of us to freely debate our opinions in the first place. So let's not attack the very foundation of what truly makes America great, our freedom of speech.

Sorry to not include any foreigners, but American politics has really become quite childish. I don't know if we will ever grow up.