Isiah Wild Over Wally

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyways, the chemistry he has, isn't enough chemistry for him to lead the Suns to 62+ wins, if healthy. Nash thrives in the open court. He makes other players want to run. I don't know if the same could be said about Marbury. Although he can be very effective in open court with his quickness, he does not have the offensive awareness, unselfishness and courtvision (eyes at the back of his head) like Nash. With Marbury, they would be more of a half court team, which means less fast court oppurtunities. Although he could be break down the teams with his one on one moves, and create shots, Nash could do the same and more, since him and Amare are the best Pick and roll combo in the league.</div>
I just want to know how you know this? Everywhere Marbury has gone, he has been asked to do the scoring while distributing the ball. I think many people call him selfish because of his scoring role. If you had so many options to choose from, I don?t think you would hesitate to give up the ball. The fact of the matter is while Nash helped make his teammates better, he had the perfect combination of players and D?Antoni style of play was a major part of it as well. I really don?t think Nash breaks defense as easily as Marbury. Nash has two 3 point threats on the wing and is able to penetrate with ease?that doesn?t impress me. Marbury does the same thing with no shooters around and does it better than Nash. Most of Nash?s assists are on jumpshots because of this.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Martin was seen as someone who could contribute right away with not much potential as the other players picked behind him. Everyone knew he wasn't going to be that cornerstone player for the franchise. They were trying to get back to winning right away. If they were re-building, they would of chose a hot prospect to help build around like Stromile Swift. Obviously now, Martin is the better player, but back then, the better choice would of been Swift if they were a re-building team as you claim.</div>
I don?t remember about Martin being seen without that much potential. He was the college player of the year and was a polished player and a hard worker if I?m not mistaken. Swift only had the athleticism and dunks etc. He was incredibly raw and inexperienced whereas Martin was pretty refined.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's more the other way around...Nash helps them alot. Amare was not seen as a perimeter threat until a couple of months into the season where started seeing a lot of them and started building off his shot (which he practiced alot last year). I wouldn't exactly call Marion a big man, but he's an average shooter for a SF. Whether or not you have Q and JJ on your team, your going to have other players fill their voids. When you have Nash on your team, your eventually going to learn how to shoot, if you can't, the team will find players that can.</div>
They help each other out, but more so the team helps him. I say this because throughout Nash?s career, he never did anything like this before. He had many good players around him before like Dirk, Finley, Van Exel and the list goes on so, if he was this good, how come it never showed earlier? All of a sudden when he got these players, he puts up these type of numbers. I called Marion a big man because he played mostly PF this year. An average shooter for a SF, but pretty good for a PF. Q and JJ already had pretty good jumpers, and Amare worked on his jumper to strickly help his game. I don?t think he said because I?m playing with Nash, I better learn how to shoot. He?s had critics his first two years calling him strictly a power player, and I believe he did that to try to shut some of them up.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Actually, take this as you want, but I did think if the Suns were to win their division (which I believed they would after the off-season), then I expected Nash to be a top 10 canidate for the MVP award. If you add someone as significant as Nash, and your team improves dramatically like that, he's going to get a lot of credit (much well deserved).</div>
Yes, I believed that too. I?m saying before the season when Nash just got signed in July and Q got signed soon after, before they played their first game in the preseason, did you think Nash would be an MVP candidate.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly, I don't really care much about Marbury's numbers. I know he's an excellent player, but he doesn't stand out to me like Nash and other PG's because his teams have not had much sucess. 20-8 and the Suns team (excluding Nash) just doesn't add up to 62 wins (or close to it).</div>
Marbury was put in bad coincidences throughout his whole career. Injury riddled Nets, the Suns where he took them to the playoffs and took them to Game 6 against the future NBA champion Spurs. Career success can be an indicator of a players abilities, however, it isn?t always accurate. You don?t think Marbury and the Suns (excluding Nash of course) don?t add up to 62 wins, but I bet you didn?t think the original Suns (with Nash) could win 62 games either, did you?

 

[P.A.P.]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I just want to know how you know this? Everywhere Marbury has gone, he has been asked to do the scoring while distributing the ball. I think many people call him selfish because of his scoring role. If you had so many options to choose from, I don?t think you would hesitate to give up the ball. The fact of the matter is while Nash helped make his teammates better, he had the perfect combination of players and D?Antoni style of play was a major part of it as well. I really don?t think Nash breaks defense as easily as Marbury. Nash has two 3 point threats on the wing and is able to penetrate with ease?that doesn?t impress me. Marbury does the same thing with no shooters around and does it better than Nash. Most of Nash?s assists are on jumpshots because of this. </div>

Know what? I'm not saying Marbury is selfish, I'm just saying that Nash is very unselfish. You can't really teach that. He always looks as himself as the 5th scoring option on the court. Nash is so caught up in getting his teammates the open shots, that he often ignores open lanes to the basket to pass it out to his teammates, which results in an open shot. That might be a bad things at times, but take it as you want.

I don't know how many is "most", but Nash gets quite a few of his assists from pick and rolls with Amare, whether Amare scores, or if someone else slashes into the lane for the shot.

D'Antoni would not have played this style if he did not have Nash on the team. Nash was signed before the FA process began, so the Suns had an idea of what they were going to do with their team from their on out in the offseason.

Nash penetrates with ease while getting his teammates with ease. If you watch the Suns, you can see that Nash controls the team. He gets everybody easy baskets. When you take him out of the game, the Suns are forced to play a slower pace game even with the speedy Barbosa. As you might have seen today, when Nash was out of the game, the dominating Amare, suddenly was dominating anymore and could not get the ball anymore. The Suns were not getting their open shots. He produces a lot of points, many that do not show up in the stat sheet. It's actualy really hard to put into words, how many points he scores. When Nash is on the court for 48MPG, the team averages 121.8 PPG with a +/- of +17.6. When Nash is off the court, the team averages 104 PPG/48M with a +/- of +2.1. That should say enough.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don?t remember about Martin being seen without that much potential. He was the college player of the year and was a polished player and a hard worker if I?m not mistaken. Swift only had the athleticism and dunks etc. He was incredibly raw and inexperienced whereas Martin was pretty refined. </div>

His potential was not the same as Swift. Both were considered Top 3 Picks. Swift was a sophmore who just had a monster year with LSU. While Martin had a monster year as well, but it had taken him 3 years of college play for him to reach that monster year. Swift was shown as a player that would only build off that because he was a sophmore who brokeout in his second year, and because of that, he was displayed as the player with more potential.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They help each other out, but more so the team helps him. I say this because throughout Nash?s career, he never did anything like this before. He had many good players around him before like Dirk, Finley, Van Exel and the list goes on so, if he was this good, how come it never showed earlier? All of a sudden when he got these players, he puts up these type of numbers. I called Marion a big man because he played mostly PF this year. An average shooter for a SF, but pretty good for a PF. Q and JJ already had pretty good jumpers, and Amare worked on his jumper to strickly help his game. I don?t think he said because I?m playing with Nash, I better learn how to shoot. He?s had critics his first two years calling him strictly a power player, and I believe he did that to try to shut some of them up. </div>

Firstly, this Suns team is more athletic than the Mavs team. They are also on a shorter rotation, so they play together more. Nash has a player named Amare on his team, and that is probably the biggest reason on why this Suns team has had more sucess than the previous Mavs team. When you have the best pick and roll combination in the league (Amare attacks the basket like no to other), you're going to have a lot of sucess. Amare's success has a lot more to do with Nash's prescence than it does with Nash's success and Amare's presence.

Amare starting working on his jumpshot more midway through last season, after the trade and the firing because he had the time to dedicate to it because the team was going nowhere. It was the end of the season where he showed signs of developing one. He was busy throughout the summer with the Olympics and all. It was when he started working with Nash in training camp and throughout the season, where he realized that the jumpshot would be a important aspect to his game working with Nash, thus he put more of an effort in to work on the shot.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, I believed that too. I?m saying before the season when Nash just got signed in July and Q got signed soon after, before they played their first game in the preseason, did you think Nash would be an MVP candidate.</div>

Personally, I wasn't sure how well the team would do, but when I heard that Q and JJ would start, that's when the thought came to my mind. Since they were freakishly athletic and quick with firepower, I believe it was a good possibility that the team would suceed and Nash would have a legit shot. However, I did think the usuals (KG, TD, Shaq) would be the talk for the MVP.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marbury was put in bad coincidences throughout his whole career. Injury riddled Nets, the Suns where he took them to the playoffs and took them to Game 6 against the future NBA champion Spurs. Career success can be an indicator of a players abilities, however, it isn?t always accurate. You don?t think Marbury and the Suns (excluding Nash of course) don?t add up to 62 wins, but I bet you didn?t think the original Suns (with Nash) could win 62 games either, did you?</div>

I never really thought in my head that "the Suns can win 62 games this year because they have Nash and this firepower team". It was more of a smaller thing, like them winning the division. I knew they would be good, but not this good. I don't think anyone predicted them to be this good.

 

[#3 Marbury]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Know what? I'm not saying Marbury is selfish, I'm just saying that Nash is very unselfish. You can't really teach that. He always looks as himself as the 5th scoring option on the court. Nash is so caught up in getting his teammates the open shots, that he often ignores open lanes to the basket to pass it out to his teammates, which results in an open shot. That might be a bad things at times, but take it as you want.</div>
How can you say Nash isn't selfish, from what I've seen in the playoffs, he is one of the most selfish players I've ever seen and his team still loses. Marbury may be selfish, but when he scores 48 points his team wins.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting #3 Marbury:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say Nash isn't selfish, from what I've seen in the playoffs, he is one of the most selfish players I've ever seen and his team still loses. Marbury may be selfish, but when he scores 48 points his team wins.</div>

You cant be serious! And I suppose you just forgot to mention he's still getting 14 assists per game! The Spurs are forcing Nash to shoot the ball so the rest of the team doesnt get open shots. The reason why the Suns are losing is because of the less than spectacular play of Q and Marion and the fact that there's noone on the bench they can go to. Nash is without a doubt better than Marbury. I wish I could trade Marbury for him.



Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Wade03]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting #3 Marbury:</div><div class="quote_post">Banks you are crazy, if you have the leagues best point guard, Crawford, Wally, KT, Sweetney + picks you're gonna be a title contender in the east for sure.

If a team like NJ made playoffs this year then NY is gonna dominate next year. NJ had no big men and the 3rd best pg, a injured deteriorating VC, and a guy who can only dunk(RJ). NY will be in the ECF no prob.</div>

The leagues best point guard is going way too far, the leagues best point guard is Nash. I'm not even sure if Marbury would make the top 6 point guards (IMO: Nash,Kidd,Baron,Francis,Parker,Billups). Marbury is a team cancer and althoguh I really like him as a player if we had the chance to trade him for another PG of higher calibur I would in a hearbeat. We will def not be a contender next year no matter matter what realistic trades we make with teams like Miami and Detroit in the East. If we wait till Houston's contract expires and we can maybe get someone in the likes of Lebron then we can talk.