It's August 4th, 2009

[Tince]

Because several posters on this forum have been ranting non-stop for the past two weeks about how these negotiations are "alienating our superstar", about how KP is going to screw this up, like he has everything else this summer, etc. Sorry to jump to the conclusion that you are one of the nattering nabobs of negativity. It's hard to keep them all straight. All the negative energy on this board lately is taking the fun out of participating here. I think I need a break.

BNM

Just ignore the people who thought this Roy thing was a major issue and that we were actually in serious jeopardy of losing him.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Just ignore the people who thought this Roy thing was a major issue and that we were actually in serious jeopardy of losing him.

There are already several on my ignore list, but it seemed like more were popping up daily. Of course, now that we've signed Roy, they will be going Chicken Little over Aldridge until he signs his extension - and then it will be something else. I swear sometimes it seems like half this board has forgotten how to enjoy rooting for this team. It seems like they just come here to drag the other half down.

BNM

 

[Pinwheel1]

Because several posters on this forum have been ranting non-stop for the past two weeks about how these negotiations are "alienating our superstar", about how KP is going to screw this up, like he has everything else this summer, etc. Sorry to jump to the conclusion that you are one of the nattering nabobs of negativity. It's hard to keep them all straight. All the negative energy on this board lately is taking the fun out of participating here. I think I need a break.

BNM

Actually I can relate. It's like a trickle down effect. We live in an age where the media sensationalizes every little thing, so I guess we should not be surprised when the fans do it too.

 

[Idog1976]

There are already several on my ignore list, but it seemed like more were popping up daily. Of course, now that we've signed Roy, they will be going Chicken Little over Aldridge until he signs his extension - and then it will be something else. I swear sometimes it seems like half this board has forgotten how to enjoy rooting for this team. It seems like they just come here to drag the other half down.

BNM

It does seem like members of this board, and dare I say people in general in this country, are wobbling into some minor form of Bi-Polar disorder. Just look at all the partisanship! Someone posted in another thread that some members could find fault with winning a million dollars. Sure enough, although being tongue in cheek, Maxiep was able to find bad tax implications LOL. The point is the media either makes people into unrapproachable titans of purity, or it drags them down into the muck. Often it does both. It's a sad state of affairs but I think this board is a microcosm of the country in general in the sense that this sort of Sky is Falling about minor things continues while the really big things are ignored as they are too scary.

That said, FREAKING GO BLAZERS, TAKE ME AWAY FROM THE PAIN!

 

[blue32]

i want a million dollars.......

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I've got an different, albeit more simplistic answer . . . it's a chat board about the Blazers, you are going to get differing opinions and over analysis of any basketball new on a daily basis by die hard basketball fans.

How boring of a board if every poster was rationale, middle of the road, afraid to take a strong position and everyone had the same mindset of don't worry, it is summer, let things play out, we will evaluate in the fall. I'm sure we will evaluate in the fall . . . as well as in the summer and for that matter each day of summer.

I love a board where it can be middle of the off season with very little going on and there are still hundreds (?) of posts a day about the Blazers. My kind of site.

 

[PapaG]

Because several posters on this forum have been ranting non-stop for the past two weeks about how these negotiations are "alienating our superstar", about how KP is going to screw this up, like he has everything else this summer, etc. Sorry to jump to the conclusion that you are one of the nattering nabobs of negativity. It's hard to keep them all straight. All the negative energy on this board lately is taking the fun out of participating here. I think I need a break.

BNM

Other posters have been whining about how the Blazers were smart to use the upcoming CBA negotiations, and how Roy had no leverage, and yadayadayada.

Looks like those claims are even more worthless than people like me who wondered why Roy getting a max deal took so long. I guess it's not the economy!

 

[PapaG]

I've got an different, albeit more simplistic answer . . . it's a chat board about the Blazers, you are going to get differing opinions and over analysis of any basketball new on a daily basis by die hard basketball fans.

How boring of a board if every poster was rationale, middle of the road, afraid to take a strong position and everyone had the same mindset of don't worry, it is summer, let things play out, we will evaluate in the fall. I'm sure we will evaluate in the fall . . . as well as in the summer and for that matter each day of summer.

I love a board where it can be middle of the off season with very little going on and there are still hundreds (?) of posts a day about the Blazers. My kind of site.

No doubt. I agree with you half the time, I disagree with you half the time, yet I always read your posts. I just don't understand "ignoring" posters, and especially those that brag about who they have on ignore. If you're ignoring really ignoring them, pointing out that you're ignoring them seems to defeat the purpose.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Other posters have been whining about how the Blazers were smart to use the upcoming CBA negotiations, and how Roy had no leverage, and yadayadayada.

Looks like those claims are even more worthless than people like me who wondered why Roy getting a max deal took so long. I guess it's not the economy!

That is one way to look at it. (I mean spin it) Personally i think most of us said he would eventually get the max. We said the Blazers would try to negotiate something less, but always knew that it would come down to the max. That is why no one really was that worried. KP was clear about it. The fact that the Blazers did not want it to appear like they were just going to offer Roy a blank check, was the right move even though the result was the same. It would have been a bad precedent especially with LMA coming to bat.

Bottom like is that some of you got your panties bunched up in a wad for no reason. Because we all knew the eventual outcome.

 

[Tince]

That is one way to look at it. (I mean spin it) Personally i think most of us said he would eventually get the max. We said the Blazers would try to negotiate something less, but always knew that it would come down to the max. That is why no one really was that worried. KP was clear about it. The fact that the Blazers did not want it to appear like they were just going to offer Roy a blank check, was the right move even though the result was the same. It would have been a bad precedent especially with LMA coming to bat.

Bottom like is that some of you got your panties bunched up in a wad for no reason. Because we all knew the eventual outcome.

+1. Well, most of us knew the eventual outcome.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

That is one way to look at it. (I mean spin it) Personally i think most of us said he would eventually get the max. We said the Blazers would try to negotiate something less, but always knew that it would come down to the max. That is why no one really was that worried. KP was clear about it. The fact that the Blazers did not want it to appear like they were just going to offer Roy a blank check, was the right move even though the result was the same. It would have been a bad precedent especially with LMA coming to bat.

Bottom like is that some of you got your panties bunched up in a wad for no reason. Because we all knew the eventual outcome.

And some posters got their paanties bunched up in a wad because some posters got their panties bunched up in a wad for no reason.

I guess the second group at least had a reason

 

[PapaG]

That is one way to look at it. (I mean spin it) Personally i think most of us said he would eventually get the max. We said the Blazers would try to negotiate something less, but always knew that it would come down to the max. That is why no one really was that worried. KP was clear about it. The fact that the Blazers did not want it to appear like they were just going to offer Roy a blank check, was the right move even though the result was the same. It would have been a bad precedent especially with LMA coming to bat.

Bottom like is that some of you got your panties bunched up in a wad for no reason. Because we all knew the eventual outcome.

Really? I read plenty of posts putting forth the theory that the Blazers were trying to shortchange Roy because of the new CBA/lockout coming up in two years.

Saying you knew the eventual outcome is a pretty easy thing to say right now, though. I knew it would happen as well, I just wondered why it took over a month to get it done.

Anyhow, onward and upward.

 

[PapaG]

And some posters got their paanties bunched up in a wad because some posters got their panties bunched up in a wad for no reason.

I guess the second group at least had a reason

There were dozens of posts dedicated to why Roy didn't deserve a max deal, why the Bargnani signing meant nothing, how Roy had no leverage, how Roy had an injury history, how James/Wade/Paul only got (really TOOK) three years, etc. etc.

Did I imagine all of those counterpoints, because I swear I read them on this board?

 

[Ed O]

There were dozens of posts dedicated to why Roy didn't deserve a max deal, why the Bargnani signing meant nothing, how Roy had no leverage, how Roy had an injury history, how James/Wade/Paul only got (really TOOK) three years, etc. etc.

Did I imagine all of those counterpoints, because I swear I read them on this board?

From my perspective, I argued why the Blazers would be justified taking those positions. I did not express any outrage or even frustration that Roy was seeking more, and I don't think I even said that Roy should not (or will not) ultimately get what he wants.

None of the points I made are incorrect or rendered weakened if the Blazers choose to give Roy max dollars, max years, with an opt-out (i.e., everything he could possibly want).

Maybe you're talking about other people, though. I'll let them defend their positions against your wrath.

Ed O.

 

[Tince]

From my perspective, I argued why the Blazers would be justified taking those positions. I did not express any outrage or even frustration that Roy was seeking more, and I don't think I even said that Roy should not (or will not) ultimately get what he wants.

None of the points I made are incorrect or rendered weakened if the Blazers choose to give Roy max dollars, max years, with an opt-out (i.e., everything he could possibly want).

Maybe you're talking about other people, though. I'll let them defend their positions against your wrath.

Ed O.

I took a similar stance. I knew Roy would be getting a max deal, I just didn't know how many years and where the options would fall. As a fan, I wanted Portland to have an option, but I certainly couldn't blame Roy for taking the stance he did.

It all comes back to the point that most of us seemed to understand the reason both sides were trying to get the most out of the deal and there was almost no chance we were going to lose Roy.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Really? I read plenty of posts putting forth the theory that the Blazers were trying to shortchange Roy because of the new CBA/lockout coming up in two years.

Saying you knew the eventual outcome is a pretty easy thing to say right now, though. I knew it would happen as well, I just wondered why it took over a month to get it done.

Anyhow, onward and upward.

I actually made very few comments on this subject because I thought the topic was ridiculous. For obvious reasons. It was not a big deal.

Here is one of my few quotes on the subject that pretty much summed it up for me. (July 13th) The thread topic was based on an article from Canzano saying the Blazers were nickle and diming Brandon:

I guess what has bugged me is the term "Nickle and Diming". I never thought this was true and I still don't. The amount of money does not seem to be the problem so i doubt any animosity will come from it. They are not insulting him here.

 

[PapaG]

From my perspective, I argued why the Blazers would be justified taking those positions. I did not express any outrage or even frustration that Roy was seeking more, and I don't think I even said that Roy should not (or will not) ultimately get what he wants.

So, you were merely being a contrarian by so aggressively pointing out the CBA implications?

So, you were guessing, just like everybody else.

Correct. Difference was, you and others called me (and others) out for their guesswork. Why?

None of the points I made are incorrect or rendered weakened if the Blazers choose to give Roy max dollars, max years, with an opt-out (i.e., everything he could possibly want).

Actually, your points are rendered completely invalid, since none of what you were suggesting actually happened. You even repeatedly talked about Roy having no leverage; apparently he had leverage.

Maybe you're talking about other people, though. I'll let them defend their positions against your wrath.

Ed O.

It's not my "wrath". Nice 'victim' terminology, by the way. I'm just wondering why the "I told you so" posts are directed at one group of people, and not another who took a position that was even more wrong in retrospect.

 

[Ed O]

So, you were merely being a contrarian by so aggressively pointing out the CBA implications?

Not at all. You and others were savaging the Blazers about their negotiations. You were being chicken little and claiming that Roy was going to leave. You STILL think that the Blazers "lost respect".

All of these things are, in my opinion, ridiculous. I posted reasons for why the Blazers would be justified negotiating.

Correct. Difference was, you and others called me (and others) out for their guesswork. Why?

Because you were ripping into the Blazers for not rolling over immediately and exposing their belly to Brandon Roy's agent. You and others were seemingly willing for the Blazers to not waste ONE minute by asking Roy to receive less than the absolute maximum he could.

Actually, your points are rendered completely invalid, since none of what you were suggesting actually happened. You even repeatedly talked about Roy having no leverage; apparently he had leverage.

I disagree. Leverage is unaffected by the outcome. It only comes into play if there's a true disagreement as to the value of the contract. If the Blazers agreed to give him everything he wanted, then they agreed he was worth it.

That does not support my position that they have (or had) leverage, but it doesn't undermine it, either.

As for the invalidity of my claims: I think that you are getting your words confused. They're not rendered invalid in the least. They are irrelevant in this case, if Roy has signed. They are still sound and can be applied in other extension negotiation situations.

It's not my "wrath". Nice 'victim' terminology, by the way. I'm just wondering why the "I told you so" posts are directed at one group of people, and not another who took a position that was even more wrong in retrospect.

You're being so abstract I can't even follow what you're saying.

If you're saying "I told you so" in my direction... well, you can do it, but it's not very effective. I came up with arguments defending the process that the Blazers have taken, and even that (IMO) would allow them to negotiate for a longer period of time. There's nothing that I've said that has been changed by what has reportedly happened.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Not at all. You and others were savaging the Blazers about their negotiations. You were being chicken little and claiming that Roy was going to leave. You STILL think that the Blazers "lost respect".

I never once claimed that Roy would leave. I did say that he could force a trade or sit out camp, though. Were those options not available to him?

All of these things are, in my opinion, ridiculous. I posted reasons for why the Blazers would be justified negotiating.

Well, I thought it was ridiculous that you would think that Roy had no leverage. Touche.

Because you were ripping into the Blazers for not rolling over immediately and exposing their belly to Brandon Roy's agent. You and others were seemingly willing for the Blazers to not waste ONE minute by asking Roy to receive less than the absolute maximum he could.

So, after a month, he got exactly what he wanted. I wonder what changed?

I disagree. Leverage is unaffected by the outcome. It only comes into play if there's a true disagreement as to the value of the contract. If the Blazers agreed to give him everything he wanted, then they agreed he was worth it.

You can disagree all you want, but the scenarios you presented apparently did not materialize based on what Roy ended up receiving.

That does not support my position that they have (or had) leverage, but it doesn't undermine it, either.

Lawyerspeak for taking both sides. You were presenting the Blazers' possibilities, but you didn't mean it.

As for the invalidity of my claims: I think that you are getting your words confused. They're not rendered invalid in the least. They are irrelevant in this case, if Roy has signed. They are still sound and can be applied in other extension negotiation situations.

At least you admit that both of our opinions are irrelevant.

You're being so abstract I can't even follow what you're saying.

Uh, right.

If you're saying "I told you so" in my direction... well, you can do it, but it's not very effective. I came up with arguments defending the process that the Blazers have taken, and even that (IMO) would allow them to negotiate for a longer period of time. There's nothing that I've said that has been changed by what has reportedly happened.

Ed O.

If it's an "I told you so", it's only to say that the reactions from posters like you to posters wondering why Roy didn't get what he wanted (which he did) were as over the top as our own posts.

No one was reasonable on this board regarding the Roy situation, except perhaps mediocre man. If you don't mean what you are typing, perhaps you should preface your posts with a "devil's advocate" disclaimer.

 

[tlongII]

I've always said that the Blazers would sign Roy. They will sign Aldridge as well. The management of the team is almost in lockstep with everything I've envisioned so far. The only action I questioned was the offer to Turkoglu. Thank god he didn't take it!

 

[e.l.e.]

Looks like those claims are even more worthless than people like me who wondered why Roy getting a max deal took so long. I guess it's not the economy!

Per Jason Quick, it was never about the money for the Blazers. It sounds like they wanted to give him the max all along. What they didn't want was to give Roy the player option for the 5th year (which is the opposite of what was reported earlier about the team wanting the option). Sounds like that's the main reason it took so long.

I never once claimed that Roy would leave. I did say that he could force a trade or sit out camp, though. Were those options not available to him?

I don't think a player would get that upset about a team wanting to sign him to a max deal for as long as possible. There's absolutely no harm in trying to negotiate for no player option in the 5th year, seeing as it only took a month during the dog days of summer. It's unreasonable to assume the Blazers shouldn't at least try. As a fan, I'd be upset if they didn't try.

 

[alex42083]

There were dozens of posts dedicated to why Roy didn't deserve a max deal, why the Bargnani signing meant nothing, how Roy had no leverage, how Roy had an injury history, how James/Wade/Paul only got (really TOOK) three years, etc. etc.

Did I imagine all of those counterpoints, because I swear I read them on this board?

I really enjoyed the Brandon's injury history reason for not giving him the max years, and the various other reasons for not giving Roy max years.
Didn't make sense to me at all, but in the end, we all got what we finally hoped for and that's Roy signed for a long time.

 

[alex42083]

I've got an different, albeit more simplistic answer . . . it's a chat board about the Blazers, you are going to get differing opinions and over analysis of any basketball new on a daily basis by die hard basketball fans.

How boring of a board if every poster was rationale, middle of the road, afraid to take a strong position and everyone had the same mindset of don't worry, it is summer, let things play out, we will evaluate in the fall. I'm sure we will evaluate in the fall . . . as well as in the summer and for that matter each day of summer.

I love a board where it can be middle of the off season with very little going on and there are still hundreds (?) of posts a day about the Blazers. My kind of site.

+1. Good post.

It certainly got emotional around here with Hedo spurning us, the image of our trainer holding up a Turkish sign at the airport, Millsap being matched, the prospect of cap space not being used, our franchise player heading into a long negotiation, drafting a Euro with our first-rounder who we won't see for a long time, the passing on Blair in the draft meltdown that occurred.

Frankly, anything can happen in the NBA. And it's not all rosy all the time even with KP at the helm.
But I think now we're just all eagerly awaiting the season to start.

 

[STOMP]

I seriously doubt either one really wanted him here. Roy said all we needed was to stand pat and add a backup PF to get boards and defend.

do you think thats really what he feels? Personally I think he was being PC as mentioning any other positional need is insulting a teammate currently under contract.

STOMP