Wes Matthews to play in All Star Rook/Soph game

[jlprk]

Everyone is overjoyed at how well he's doing, beyond their expectations, except me. I thought he was worth the money when we got him, but now I think we overpaid.

 

[PapaG]

But he's overpaid, right?

MLE for a 15 PER player is about right, I guess. For a starting SG, he's average in production, and average in terms of contract. How that changes over the duration of the contract, nobody knows. I'm more concerned with the future of PG than Wesley Matthews, although if Matthews is expected to be anything more than a role player, this team won't win a title, IMO.

 

[Natebishop3]

MLE for a 15 PER player is about right, I guess. For a starting SG, he's average in production, and average in terms of contract. How that changes over the duration of the contract, nobody knows. I'm more concerned with the future of PG than Wesley Matthews, although if Matthews is expected to be anything more than a role player, this team won't win a title, IMO.

You think he's average for a starter in production? I'm just curious what would be average exactly.

 

[PapaG]

You think he's average for a starter in production? I'm just curious what would be average exactly.

He's 15th in PER out of the starting SGs in the NBA, and he is the second leading scorer on a 25-21 team.

A 15 PER is is typically considered an "average" player as well. 15th in PER with a PER of 15, and on a MLE contract. Perhaps his nickname could be "Mr. Average"? He's doing awesome for a 2nd-year undrafted player, though. He's just not as good as many here seem to think, at least compared to what the Blazers used to have at starting PG.

 

[andalusian]

A 15 PER is is typically considered an "average" player as well. 15th in PER with a PER of 15, and on a MLE contract. Perhaps his nickname could be "Mr. Average"? He's doing awesome for a 2nd-year undrafted player, though. He's just not as good as many here seem to think, at least compared to what the Blazers used to have at starting PG.

15 is not an average player. It is an average minute of NBA played and roughly equivalent to an average starter in the league.

FWIW - a "replacement level player" in the SG position is defined at 10.5 PER

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090325

 

[B-Roy]

He's 15th in PER out of the starting SGs in the NBA, and he is the second leading scorer on a 25-21 team.

A 15 PER is is typically considered an "average" player as well. 15th in PER with a PER of 15, and on a MLE contract. Perhaps his nickname could be "Mr. Average"? He's doing awesome for a 2nd-year undrafted player, though. He's just not as good as many here seem to think, at least compared to what the Blazers used to have at starting PG.

According to Hollinger's reference guide, a 15 PER means pretty good player, which I would agree Matthews is.

 

[PapaG]

15 is not an average player. It is an average minute of NBA played and roughly equivalent to an average starter in the league.

FWIW - a "replacement level player" in the SG position is defined at 10.5 PER

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090325

Fair enough. I posted similar to the "average" thing in terms of starting, though I said "player" afterward. He's basically an average starter at SG. What's wrong with that? Of the bench, he was actually worse, so starting (or getting a higher usage rate?) has increased his production.

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that a team with Matthews as its second leading scorer isn't going to be a title contender, at least right now. I'm glad he made the game. What else can I say? He isn't Roy's long-term replacement, though.

 

[PapaG]

According to Hollinger's reference guide, a 15 PER means pretty good player, which I would agree Matthews is.

I agree he's a pretty good player. Of course, with a 15 PER of his own, that must mean that Travis Outlaw was a pretty good player as well, which I also agree with.

 

[B-Roy]

I agree he's a pretty good player. Of course, with a 15 PER of his own, that must mean that Travis Outlaw was a pretty good player as well, which I also agree with.

Why bring up Outlaw? We're talking about Wesley Matthews here.

 

[PapaG]

Why bring up Outlaw? We're talking about Wesley Matthews here.

I know, right?

http://sportstwo.com/threads/178004...ok-Soph-game?p=2523475&viewfull=1#post2523475

 

[B-Roy]

I know, right?

http://sportstwo.com/threads/178004...ok-Soph-game?p=2523475&viewfull=1#post2523475

I don't know why you're linking me that post. I'm not the one who mentioned Travis Outlaw.

 

[PapaG]

I don't know why you're linking me that post. I'm not the one who mentioned Travis Outlaw.

It was already brought up in the thread, and you mentioned '15' as a pretty good player.

Seems like I tied the two things together, at least in my mind. I read entire threads up to the point I comment on something, so I assumed you had read the post about Outlaw. Sorry if I offended you.

 

[handiman]

I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that a team with Matthews as its second leading scorer isn't going to be a title contender, at least right now.

One might also say the same about Bruce Bowen... Matthews isn't quite to that level of defense yet, but he has the potential. And he's a vastly superior offensive player, so he could certainly be the starting SG on a championship team. Average starter on offense and well above average on defense; sounds like a pretty solid starter.

 

[PapaG]

One might also say the same about Bruce Bowen... Matthews isn't quite to that level of defense yet, but he has the potential. And he's a vastly superior offensive player, so he could certainly be the starting SG on a championship team. Average starter on offense and well above average on defense; sounds like a pretty solid starter.

Matthews is nowhere near Bruce Bowen on defense. He's not even in the same conversation.

Good Lord

 

[B-Roy]

It was already brought up in the thread, and you mentioned '15' as a pretty good player.

Seems like I tied the two things together, at least in my mind. I read entire threads up to the point I comment on something, so I assumed you had read the post about Outlaw. Sorry if I offended you.

You're straying from the argument. I didn't argue anything about Outlaw, so there's no need to bring him up. Discuss that with Nate.

 

[PapaG]

You're straying from the argument. I didn't argue anything about Outlaw, so there's no need to bring him up. Discuss that with Nate.

What argument? I agreed that Matthews is "pretty good". That's kind of the end of it, isn't it? I then moved on to a former Blazer, who had a similar PER (but off of the bench), who was brought up in this thread, and who was bashed for years, with his PER being proof of how bad he was off the bench.

 

[Natebishop3]

Outlaw is a perfect person to compare Matthews to in terms of contracts given this last offseason. They both got relatively sizable contracts, yet how has Travis done by comparison?

He has an 8.5 PER with the Nets... Matthews is thriving as a starter, Outlaw is...... what's the opposite of thriving?

 

[julius]

Outlaw is a perfect person to compare Matthews to in terms of contracts given this last offseason. They both got relatively sizable contracts, yet how has Travis done by comparison?

He has an 8.5 PER with the Nets... Matthews is thriving as a starter, Outlaw is...... what's the opposite of thriving?

languishing.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Outlaw is a perfect person to compare Matthews to in terms of contracts given this last offseason. They both got relatively sizable contracts, yet how has Travis done by comparison?

He has an 8.5 PER with the Nets... Matthews is thriving as a starter, Outlaw is...... what's the opposite of thriving?

Living in New Jersey

 

[julius]

Living in New Jersey

 

[Natebishop3]

Living in New Jersey

I liked julius' answer better.

 

[PapaG]

Outlaw is a perfect person to compare Matthews to in terms of contracts given this last offseason. They both got relatively sizable contracts, yet how has Travis done by comparison?

He has an 8.5 PER with the Nets... Matthews is thriving as a starter, Outlaw is...... what's the opposite of thriving?

Why would anyone on this board complain about Outlaw's contract? I just didn't understand your post.

Also, should all of these OT posts be deleted?

 

[Natebishop3]

Why would anyone on this board complain about Outlaw's contract? I just didn't understand your post.

Also, should all of these OT posts be deleted?

I think it's pretty topical actually, considering both guys got sizable contracts over the summer and the experts thought both guys were overpaid, but it seemed like we got a little more flack for the contract we gave Wes. But you wouldn't know anything about that, now would you? I don't think anyone on this board was complaining about Outlaws contract, but there were a few people complaining about Wes *cough cough* and now we're midway through the season and Wes is tearing it up while Outlaw is.... not.

 

[PapaG]

I think it's pretty topical actually, considering both guys got sizable contracts over the summer and the experts thought both guys were overpaid, but it seemed like we got a little more flack for the contract we gave Wes. But you wouldn't know anything about that, now would you? I don't think anyone on this board was complaining about Outlaws contract, but there were a few people complaining about Wes *cough cough* and now we're midway through the season and Wes is tearing it up while Outlaw is.... not.

Dude, aren't you a newlywed, or newly engaged? Go get some ass. You're too early in your relationship to be this bitter.

Also, Matthews is shooting 44% from the field, and 38% from 3pt.

Exactly what is he "tearing up", and why does Outlaw at all matter when talking about Matthews?

 

[Natebishop3]

Dude, aren't you a newlywed, or newly engaged? Go get some ass. You're too early in your relationship to be this bitter.

Also, Matthews is shooting 44% from the field, and 38% from 3pt.

Exactly what is he "tearing up", and why does Outlaw at all matter when talking about Matthews?

I just explained it to you.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Bump!

I would never mislead you guys about something like this.

 

[hasoos]

Yet very few people said shit about the Outlaw signing.

That is because a lot of folks actually liked him. I have no idea why, but they did.

 

[andalusian]

That is because a lot of folks actually liked him. I have no idea why, but they did.

I would like to point that Outlaw's production in Portland was just as good, at least offensively, as Wesley's - at least if you look at efficiency. What Wes gives you is much more consistent defense. Outlaw's injury might have really messed him up or Nate was really good at using him...

 

[MIXUM]

wesley better remember how his ass got there cause right now he sucks.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

wesley better remember how his ass got there cause right now he sucks.

Maybe you should just give it a rest tonight.