It's not about marketing

[networks]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Jul 14 2008, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (networks @ Jul 14 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dumpy, were you a MJ fan? how about a Garnett fan? Kobe(though different) fan?

I totally disagree with you. The guy is mature beyond his years. The guy had a hard life and is reaping the rewards of his hard work. So what do you think about VC?</div>


LOL.

Yea, real tough life.
</div>

Sometimes you have to look at the past to understand the present and future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>LeBron James was born on December 30, 1984, in Akron, Ohio. His mother, Gloria James, was only 16 at the time. His biological father, Anthony McClelland, was an ex-con uninterested in being a parent. Gloria raised LeBron on her own, and to this day he goes by her last name.

Life was often a struggle for LeBron and his mother. Gloria battled personal problems during much of his childhood. Some of those were brought on by the death of her mother, who passed away when LeBron was an infant. Bouncing between retail and accounting jobs, Gloria was never able to land steady work, and she and LeBron moved from apartment to apartment. The pair got to know all the seedier neighborhoods of Akron, a city of more than 200,000 located less than a hour south of Cleveland.

Despite her failings, Gloria worked hard to be a loving mother and shield LeBron from the poverty and violence of the streets. This was no easy chore, and at times made her choice of boyfriends seem puzzling. When LeBron was two, she started dating Eddie Jackson. In and out of trouble with the law, he went to prison in 1990 for aggravated cocaine trafficking. (In 2002, he pled guilty to mortgage fraud and mail fraud.) Nevertheless LeBron formed a bond with Jackson, and Gloria liked having a man around who was willing to serve as a father figure. Her brothers, Terry and Curt, also helped out.</div>

http://jockbio.com/Bios/James/James_bio.html

I never had these issues. I dont know about you.

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malorkayel @ Jul 13 2008, 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The problem I see, with all the assets we're adding. We're letting a lot of good players go to build up cap space for the future. We added Lopez, but we're losing Kirstic and Diop. We got Yi and simmons, but lost Jefferson (we actually went backward there). We added Andserson and CDR, but losing Boki. Hayes, and Najera have little upside potential left.

All those guys we're losing were good players, on par with the level of new players coming in. I might sound crazy, but I think SWat will be the the X-factor in next year's outcome. Yi will get better, but no way he'll be as good as RJ this year. Simmons better have a good year or he'll be ran out of the league.

If Carter get any injuries, it's lottery time for us.</div>

I agree with you in part, and disagree with you in part. I think you're overestimating the value of the players that the Nets have gotten rid of. Diop, in particular, is overrated, and wouldn't be more than a ten-minute-a-night guy who can't score. RJ will turn out to be not as big a loss as everyone thinks. He's a decent part to have, but how much did he contribute to the overall team performance? His best skill right now is getting to the line and hitting free throws. Other than that, is he really a better than average SF? Seriously. I think he is eminently replacable. As for Krstic, he contributed NOTHING last year, and his defense was atrocious. You are assuming that he can return to his pre-injury form, and the jury is still out on that.

Every team has athletic, talented players. As far as I can tell, only three factors set the elite teams apart from the borderline playoff teams apart from the terrible teams:

--the superstars
--having a deep bench
--a team-wide "identity" that everyone buys into, and that the players fit that identity. Included in that is a particular defensive identity.
--unselfish players that will do whatever it takes to win, and are not concerned with their own stats.
--a winning attitude--the team has to expect to win every game and play like it.
--a coaching staff that promotes those last three factors and identifies the players that can best accomplish those goals.

I think you need all of them. Look at Houston (ran off that huge winning streak after yao got hurt); Denver (huge number of stars, but can't accomplish much); Charlotte and Atlanta (starting lineups filled with hyper-athletic "stars" but can't reach .500); Portland (no stars but "overachieved" last year).

Again, look what Philadelphia accomplished last year, after what was expected from them at the start of the season, after trading away their "star," AI1.

You can win in this league without having a roster filled with so-called "superstars." It's hard, because the true superstars are so much better than everyone else, and are so rare, but it can be done. The teams with the superstars still need the team identity and the coaching staff to become an elite team. Right now, the Nets are working on their bench and getting players that will be able to accomplish their "vision." I think they can be better than what people think. If Carter or Devin get hurt, though, all bets will be off.

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (networks @ Jul 14 2008, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 12 2008, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree with most of the posts in this thread:

(1) Brook will turn out to be a pretty special player, although not a superstar. There's no way that he should have been a top-three pick, though. He could turn out to be one of the top seven or eight players in the draft, though, and that is good enough for me.
(2) I think each of the Nets' picks will turn out to be significant contributors. I really like what I saw from Ryan Anderson, and CDR's main talent is just that he's a winner.
(3) regardless, you need a superstar or three to win the championship, and those guys don't qualify.
(4) I hate LeBron James and am not looking forward to seeing him a Net. He could still grow up between now and then, though.
(5) I have no idea how well they are going to play next year. The Nets will score more than anyone expects, and will be able (and willing) to get up and down the floor but who knows if those guys plus Yi will be able to play consistent defense, and be able to keep it up for a 90-game schedule (including training camp). That's a lot of games.
(6) regardless, i think they'll be fun to watch.</div>

Dumpy, were you a MJ fan? how about a Garnett fan? Kobe(though different) fan?

I totally disagree with you. The guy is mature beyond his years. The guy had a hard life and is reaping the rewards of his hard work. So what do you think about VC?
</div>

I wasn't aware of these issues when MJ was in his prime. He was a great player, though, but he didn't win very much during his first five years or so in the league. I don't like Kobe, although in all fairness, it appears that he has become less selfish over the past year.

LeBron is clearly better than Vince. I'd rather root for Vince, though. But then again, I get entertainment value from more than just wins and losses.

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (networks @ Jul 14 2008, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Jul 14 2008, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (networks @ Jul 14 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dumpy, were you a MJ fan? how about a Garnett fan? Kobe(though different) fan?

I totally disagree with you. The guy is mature beyond his years. The guy had a hard life and is reaping the rewards of his hard work. So what do you think about VC?</div>


LOL.

Yea, real tough life.
</div>

Sometimes you have to look at the past to understand the present and future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>LeBron James was born on December 30, 1984, in Akron, Ohio. His mother, Gloria James, was only 16 at the time. His biological father, Anthony McClelland, was an ex-con uninterested in being a parent. Gloria raised LeBron on her own, and to this day he goes by her last name.

Life was often a struggle for LeBron and his mother. Gloria battled personal problems during much of his childhood. Some of those were brought on by the death of her mother, who passed away when LeBron was an infant. Bouncing between retail and accounting jobs, Gloria was never able to land steady work, and she and LeBron moved from apartment to apartment. The pair got to know all the seedier neighborhoods of Akron, a city of more than 200,000 located less than a hour south of Cleveland.

Despite her failings, Gloria worked hard to be a loving mother and shield LeBron from the poverty and violence of the streets. This was no easy chore, and at times made her choice of boyfriends seem puzzling. When LeBron was two, she started dating Eddie Jackson. In and out of trouble with the law, he went to prison in 1990 for aggravated cocaine trafficking. (In 2002, he pled guilty to mortgage fraud and mail fraud.) Nevertheless LeBron formed a bond with Jackson, and Gloria liked having a man around who was willing to serve as a father figure. Her brothers, Terry and Curt, also helped out.</div>

http://jockbio.com/Bios/James/James_bio.html

I never had these issues. I dont know about you.
</div>

None of this matters when you discuss latent personality traits. Unless LeBron grows up and changes his attitude to his teammates and his team, he won't win. But regardless, my point continues to just be that I don't want to have to root for him, even if he helps the team win, because right now he is an ass.

 

[J.S]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malorkayel @ Jul 13 2008, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We're rebuilding this year. There is ZERO chance of us winning the championship this year. Someone look up the odds at Vegas. We only have Carter as the star player, the rest are average to above average role players. We can't win on our defense either.

Maybe if Yi magically changed into Amare and ran the break then jam down people's throats, but....... no way.</div>

We really have 0% chance in Vegas? I mean there's gotta be a fraction of a percent of a chance there.

Really though, Brook Lopez can probably do in the range of what Krstic did when he was healthy.

and Yi dosen't have to be some miracle transformation, Simply pairing him with Carter makes him probably twice the threat.

IDK, I think there's more reason to expect something good here than a lottery bound mentality, besides I disagree with your cut and dry "star player"
thinking, it's not really ever been a key to lasting success in the Kidd era and I don't see it happening now. Will Carter go off with some 35 point games, probably. But we shouldn't need that kind of output from him often, we need balanced scoring from 1-5 and we have a good chance of making that happen THIS season, not in 2010.

 

[kk30]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Jul 13 2008, 10:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Jul 13 2008, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Does Brook Lopez also help marketing with the spanish community? Does anyone know his heritage?</div>
Hispanic and white, i think. I might be wrong
</div>
can anybody confirm this?

 

[danxcr]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 14 2008, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Malorkayel @ Jul 13 2008, 04:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The problem I see, with all the assets we're adding. We're letting a lot of good players go to build up cap space for the future. We added Lopez, but we're losing Kirstic and Diop. We got Yi and simmons, but lost Jefferson (we actually went backward there). We added Andserson and CDR, but losing Boki. Hayes, and Najera have little upside potential left.

All those guys we're losing were good players, on par with the level of new players coming in. I might sound crazy, but I think SWat will be the the X-factor in next year's outcome. Yi will get better, but no way he'll be as good as RJ this year. Simmons better have a good year or he'll be ran out of the league.

If Carter get any injuries, it's lottery time for us.</div>

I agree with you in part, and disagree with you in part. I think you're overestimating the value of the players that the Nets have gotten rid of. Diop, in particular, is overrated, and wouldn't be more than a ten-minute-a-night guy who can't score. RJ will turn out to be not as big a loss as everyone thinks. He's a decent part to have, but how much did he contribute to the overall team performance? His best skill right now is getting to the line and hitting free throws. Other than that, is he really a better than average SF? Seriously. I think he is eminently replacable. As for Krstic, he contributed NOTHING last year, and his defense was atrocious. You are assuming that he can return to his pre-injury form, and the jury is still out on that.

Every team has athletic, talented players. As far as I can tell, only three factors set the elite teams apart from the borderline playoff teams apart from the terrible teams:

--the superstars
--having a deep bench
--a team-wide "identity" that everyone buys into, and that the players fit that identity. Included in that is a particular defensive identity.
--unselfish players that will do whatever it takes to win, and are not concerned with their own stats.
--a winning attitude--the team has to expect to win every game and play like it.
--a coaching staff that promotes those last three factors and identifies the players that can best accomplish those goals.

I think you need all of them. Look at Houston (ran off that huge winning streak after yao got hurt); Denver (huge number of stars, but can't accomplish much); Charlotte and Atlanta (starting lineups filled with hyper-athletic "stars" but can't reach .500); Portland (no stars but "overachieved" last year).

Again, look what Philadelphia accomplished last year, after what was expected from them at the start of the season, after trading away their "star," AI1.

You can win in this league without having a roster filled with so-called "superstars." It's hard, because the true superstars are so much better than everyone else, and are so rare, but it can be done. The teams with the superstars still need the team identity and the coaching staff to become an elite team. Right now, the Nets are working on their bench and getting players that will be able to accomplish their "vision." I think they can be better than what people think. If Carter or Devin get hurt, though, all bets will be off.
</div>


great post dumpy... but portland does have a star... brandon roy...

and a lot of solid guys... lamarcus, outlaw, (used to have jack), webster... and did u guys remember that b4 portland went on their winning streak they had a team fight in practice and their coach mcmillian let me go at it

im not sayin we should fight but i think their fight bought them closer to each other

as of right now as i read all the interviews with the rookies the team seems united... esp the 3 rookies... and vince showing support it can only get better... im hopin for the best

GO NETS

 

[Lavalamp]

I agree with Dumpy that the losses of Diop, Krstic and Boki weren't very big.

Diop would at full MLE for 5 years or whatever would be too much for the Nets considering they want to develop Lopez and Boone, and they can give Stroshow any minutes at center if one of them gets injured.

Krstic is a question mark on his health, if he returned to normal health then it would be a loss for the Nets, but they acquired Yi who has more potential than Krstic.

Boki struggled last year, and the Nets drafted Ryan Anderson.

I think the Nets drafted very well, and are in a good positon financially. Vince has a big contract, but he can keep people interested in the Nets and sell tickets better than most players who the Nets could trade him for.

 

[BrooklynBound]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Jul 14 2008, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (networks @ Jul 14 2008, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Jul 14 2008, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (networks @ Jul 14 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dumpy, were you a MJ fan? how about a Garnett fan? Kobe(though different) fan?

I totally disagree with you. The guy is mature beyond his years. The guy had a hard life and is reaping the rewards of his hard work. So what do you think about VC?</div>


LOL.

Yea, real tough life.
</div>

Sometimes you have to look at the past to understand the present and future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>LeBron James was born on December 30, 1984, in Akron, Ohio. His mother, Gloria James, was only 16 at the time. His biological father, Anthony McClelland, was an ex-con uninterested in being a parent. Gloria raised LeBron on her own, and to this day he goes by her last name.

Life was often a struggle for LeBron and his mother. Gloria battled personal problems during much of his childhood. Some of those were brought on by the death of her mother, who passed away when LeBron was an infant. Bouncing between retail and accounting jobs, Gloria was never able to land steady work, and she and LeBron moved from apartment to apartment. The pair got to know all the seedier neighborhoods of Akron, a city of more than 200,000 located less than a hour south of Cleveland.

Despite her failings, Gloria worked hard to be a loving mother and shield LeBron from the poverty and violence of the streets. This was no easy chore, and at times made her choice of boyfriends seem puzzling. When LeBron was two, she started dating Eddie Jackson. In and out of trouble with the law, he went to prison in 1990 for aggravated cocaine trafficking. (In 2002, he pled guilty to mortgage fraud and mail fraud.) Nevertheless LeBron formed a bond with Jackson, and Gloria liked having a man around who was willing to serve as a father figure. Her brothers, Terry and Curt, also helped out.</div>

http://jockbio.com/Bios/James/James_bio.html

I never had these issues. I dont know about you.
</div>

None of this matters when you discuss latent personality traits. Unless LeBron grows up and changes his attitude to his teammates and his team, he won't win. But regardless, my point continues to just be that I don't want to have to root for him, even if he helps the team win, because right now he is an ass.
</div>
Really not sure how you can definitively say he WON'T win when he led the Cavs to a close game 7 against the NBA champs.