It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (mine)

[Minstrel]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

There is a way to do it. Sign and trades. Leaving a team and giving them nothing in return is SHIT. Drexler wanted out of Portland to play on a contender. He didn't wait until he became a free-agent and just left. He asked the team to trade him and to a team he felt had the best opportunity to fulfill his dream of winning a title. Same goes for Barkley. As much as I hated seeing Drexler go; I wished him the best. If Oden pulls a Shaq, then I wish him all the injuries, pain and depression that could come his way.

So you're essentially against all unrestricted free agency? Okay, that clarifies your position.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

So you're essentially against all unrestricted free agency? Okay, that clarifies your position.

Usually when a player becomes a "un-restricted free agent" is either a.) the team doesn't feel they are for the future of the team's direction. or b.) The player wants out.

Now there have been plenty of times when a player "gets no love" and wants a change of scenery. And there are times when teams just can't afford a player too. So there is exceptions to this rule.

I have a question for you. Do you support LJ's decision to leave Cleveland to go to a contender?

 

[Minstrel]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I have a question for you. Do you support LJ's decision to leave Cleveland to go to a contender?

I think it was a perfectly reasonable and ethical decision for him to make. I thought his doing a television show to essentially kick Cleveland in the nuts was remarkably unclassy, but had he not done that show, there would be nothing to criticize.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I think it was a perfectly reasonable and ethical decision for him to make. I thought his doing a television show to essentially kick Cleveland in the nuts was remarkably unclassy, but had he not done that show, there would be nothing to criticize.

Okay, well now that I know your stand; I guess you and I can agree to disagree. Basically your moral values are different than mine. I run my business on the same precedent as how I profile myself in this forum. I stand by the employees that work hard and give them breaks in times of crisis; while I've also been burned by employees I've help through some very thick times and they left to go to a competitor after they got their feet on the ground.

I guess it's end of discussion then. I think LJ is a piece of shit, just like Boozer and Shaq. All players that their fan base fully embraced and supported. If the fans had it out for them, I would think totally otherwise. If Cleveland, Orlando or Utah just couldn't afford their stars, then I would also understand why they went elsewhere.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Usually when a player becomes a "un-restricted free agent" is either a.) the team doesn't feel they are for the future of the team's direction. or b.) The player wants out.

But do you believe there's anything wrong with either of these two reasons?

So if Oden truly wants out, you would be fine with that decision, no?

 

[Minstrel]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Okay, well now that I know your stand; I guess you and I can agree to disagree. Basically your moral values are different than mine.

So I'm guessing, based on your "loyalty" principle, that you are against teams trading players against their will or not extending players who want to re-sign? Because, just as players should be loyal and not cut ties whenever they want, teams shouldn't do that either, right?

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

But do you believe there's anything wrong with either of these two reasons?

So if Oden truly wants out, you would be fine with that decision, no?

I would feel much better if he truly wanted out, that he would give Portland the opportunity to trade him.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

So I'm guessing, based on your "loyalty" principle, that you are against teams trading players against their will or not extending players who want to re-sign? Because, just as players should be loyal and not cut ties whenever they want, teams shouldn't do that either, right?

Absolutely correct. I feel the same way on the other side of the coin. If a player is working damn hard for their team and trying to do the best of their ability; I feel the team needs to find a way to make that player happy in transition. Cutting a player like "B-Roy" for example would completely piss me off.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Absolutely correct. I feel the same way on the other side of the coin. If a player is working damn hard for their team and trying to do the best of their ability; I feel the team needs to find a way to make that player happy in transition. Cutting a player like "B-Roy" for example would completely piss me off.

Not that I don't respect your opinions, but based on this, I wouldn't trust someone like you to make decisions for my invisible company, haha.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Not that I don't respect your opinions, but based on this, I wouldn't trust someone like you to make decisions for my invisible company, haha.

Hmmm, well my "real company" is extremely successful based on these principles. They were the same principles my father had during his time on this Earth. So I know this was more about making a point on my decisions and not a "personal bash"; I just proved that doing things this way actually is an extremely successful way of doing business.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Hmmm, well my "real company" is extremely successful based on these principles. They were the same principles my father had during his time on this Earth. So I know this was more about making a point on my decisions and not a "personal bash"; I just proved that doing things this way actually is an extremely successful way of doing business.

Nothing against it, our opinions are just different.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Nothing against it, our opinions are just different.

That's cool. I don't think companies that do it the other way aren't as or even more successful than companies with my moral values as well. I guess it's different strokes for different folks. So if Oden bolts and we get nothing in return, I hope he is riddled with injuries for the rest of his life. Just my opinion man.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Absolutely correct. I feel the same way on the other side of the coin. If a player is working damn hard for their team and trying to do the best of their ability; I feel the team needs to find a way to make that player happy in transition. Cutting a player like "B-Roy" for example would completely piss me off.

Fair enough...I don't agree with your beliefs in this context, but at least you're consistent.

Oden (and Shaq, James, etc) don't work for you, though...they work for NBA teams, and NBA teams don't operate like you apparently do. They do cut loose players they no longer want, if they can. Teams don't have loyalty to players, so I don't feel players should evince any loyalty to teams. And, honestly, I think that's fine. Players and teams handling it like a business seems like a fine state of affairs.

 

[Rhal]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

There is a way to do it. Sign and trades. Leaving a team and giving them nothing in return is SHIT. Drexler wanted out of Portland to play on a contender. He didn't wait until he became a free-agent and just left. He asked the team to trade him and to a team he felt had the best opportunity to fulfill his dream of winning a title. Same goes for Barkley. As much as I hated seeing Drexler go; I wished him the best. If Oden pulls a Shaq, then I wish him all the injuries, pain and depression that could come his way.

I don't get all the Shaq hate. Orlando NEVER came close to the offer LA gave him and the franchise just refused to pay him a lot of money. It was obvious he was going to be something really special but the most Orlando offered was something like 5 years 54 Million. Shaq left due to a lot of things but the biggest seems to be that he felt he was a max type contract player and Orlando didn't. Pretty much the same thing as Amare in PHX last year.

Now with that being said, Oden owes us nothing. But if he doesn't give us the chance to keep him i'll defiantly be greatly annoyed. I see our future of making it deep in the playoffs resting on this big mans shoulders so I hope he isn't so disheartened that he wants to leave.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I would wish that he has an injury filled career. I will wish the Karma Police fucks him hard. If he leaves without giving us anything in return. He will be a PIECE OF SHIT!

Did you really just write that?

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

He won't be an UFA. We'll tender him and allow him to shop for offers.

He can accept the Q.O., though, and be a UFA in summer of 2012.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Portland will offer him the QO. If we don't sign him to a long term deal by trade deadline 2012, he will be traded. We WONT lose him for nothing.

So, if he won't accept an extension by Feb 2012, it's time to give up on him and trade away his Bird rights? Plus, if that's the case, you're trading him from a position of weakness. I don't think the Bird rights mean much in Oden's situation, but trading him at the deadline would 99.9999% guarantee that he won't be back in Portland, since the trade would be a slap in the face to him, and losing the Bird rights would matter only if Cho and the Gang were insane enough to come close to maxing Oden out over 6 years.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

What happens if the lockout lasts all season?

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

What happens if the lockout lasts all season?

That's still TBA, and is the great unknown. These playoffs have been largely successful in terms of TV rating, though, so Stern and his owners may not want to kill the NBA for another 5 years.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Did you really just write that?

Absolutely did. Hey massage Oden, feel bad for him, hell even justify why he left. Fact is, him leaving would be the worst thing any player in a Blazer uni would have done to us. Worse than Sheed's techs, worse than Bonzi flipping off fans, worse than Damon getting caught at the airport, worse than Zach's thug life party atmosphere.

The reason? Well they actually CTC, but played to earn it. Sheed, Bonzi, Zach and Damon all played for the Blazers. Oden played only 80 games in over 3 years. Show us fans why we put him before Durant. Don't prove to the world that we obviously made the wrong choice.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Loyalty is beyond overrated in professional sports. Teams and players are going to do what's the best for them and fans need to realize this. Expecting them to be loyal in an environment that isn't conducive for that is being unrealistic.

Millions upon millions of dollars are at stake here, and that's what makes it a cutthroat business.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Absolutely did. Hey massage Oden, feel bad for him, hell even justify why he left. Fact is, him leaving would be the worst thing any player in a Blazer uni would have done to us. Worse than Sheed's techs, worse than Bonzi flipping off fans, worse than Damon getting caught at the airport, worse than Zach's thug life party atmosphere.

The reason? Well they actually CTC, but played to earn it. Sheed, Bonzi, Zach and Damon all played for the Blazers. Oden played only 80 games in over 3 years. Show us fans why we put him before Durant. Don't prove to the world that we obviously made the wrong choice.

I'd be pissed if he left too. I'd boo the living shit out of him when he came back in an opposing uniform.
I don't believe in karma, but I'm sure wishing an injury filled career on someone is bad for one's own karma and far worse than a pro athlete jilting a city's basketball fans.

Peace man.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Absolutely did. Hey massage Oden, feel bad for him, hell even justify why he left. Fact is, him leaving would be the worst thing any player in a Blazer uni would have done to us. Worse than Sheed's techs, worse than Bonzi flipping off fans, worse than Damon getting caught at the airport, worse than Zach's thug life party atmosphere.

The reason? Well they actually CTC, but played to earn it. Sheed, Bonzi, Zach and Damon all played for the Blazers. Oden played only 80 games in over 3 years. Show us fans why we put him before Durant. Don't prove to the world that we obviously made the wrong choice.

That's too much pressure for anybody, and one of the reasons I've thought for a few years that Greg would want a fresh start somewhere else. People talking of holding up "JUDAS" signs at games, or thinking that Greg owes the organization some years, aren't thinking like an employee thinks; they are thinking like a business owner thinks.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

The Blazers had a window of opportunity to extend Oden past his rookie deal while they had exclusive rights to do so. In essence his employer told him "Hey if you can get a better deal more power to you." If he goes out and gets a better deal and finds another employer that is willing to invest the kind of money and resources that he feels he can get then more power to him.

This juvenile obsession with "fan support," "community support," and "loyalty" really has no place when we're talking about independent contractors with careers measured in the years you can can't on your hands with millions of dollars being at stake -- this isn't high school or college athletics.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Oden is not going to gamble $32 mill on his knees.

 

[e_blazer]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Oden is not going to gamble $32 mill on his knees.

Exactly right.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Oden is not going to gamble $32 mill on his knees.

Maybe, maybe not. He's still very young. I'd like to think that the recent statements are a negotiating ploy by Conley to get Greg a better offer, although if Canzano says it may be 3-4 years/$40 million, and he doesn't accept it, then it's obvious that he just wants a fresh start somewhere else, and is willing to take the $8.8 million Q.O. to try and make up the money as a 23 year-old FA. If Conley and Greg really do believe in his health, then not accepting the Blazer extension at this point makes a lot of sense. Say he plays 60+ games next year, puts up a 20+ PER, and goes into the 2012 summer as a UFA.

He'll certainly get better offers than a $40 million package, won't he?

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

This juvenile obsession with "fan support," "community support," and "loyalty" really has no place when we're talking about independent contractors.

I can cut everything else out of your post (which I agree with completely), and boil it down to the above statement.

I'm an independent consultant on NCCs with two companies, with very different business plans and products. If I wasn't wild about those two companies and was just cashing paychecks, and I had another company that was my dream job and a complete break from what I'm doing willing to offer me comparable money, I wouldn't think twice about leaving. Add to that scenario this ... Greg didn't choose to be in Portland. If I was "drafted" out of college to a company and had almost no success other than cashing my large paycheck, I may want to see what else exists in that "business" world, even if the other companies all produced the same product. If I found a better situation for me, I just may take it. Being on both sides of that coin (I own my own consulting business, yet I work for other companies), I tend to side with the employee in a free-agent situation.

EDIT - I'll add that Greg Oden is his own business, and that he and his 'company' need to put themselves in the best position that they think most benefits their future.

I won't be surprised if Oden ends up in the East, his team plays in Portland once a year while he "rests", and he goes on to have a very average and injury-plagued career.

 

[maxiep]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

The Blazers had a window of opportunity to extend Oden past his rookie deal while they had exclusive rights to do so. In essence his employer told him "Hey if you can get a better deal more power to you." If he goes out and gets a better deal and finds another employer that is willing to invest the kind of money and resources that he feels he can get then more power to him.

This juvenile obsession with "fan support," "community support," and "loyalty" really has no place when we're talking about independent contractors with careers measured in the years you can can't on your hands with millions of dollars being at stake -- this isn't high school or college athletics.

Untrue. Patently untrue. Both sides agreed not to negotiate an extension because his market value wasn't at a level Oden would accept.

And if you're talking about someone taking less or equal money to leave negates the money argument. At that point, it's "Fuck you Portland and sayonara", and that my friend, is quite personal.

 

[maxiep]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

That's too much pressure for anybody, and one of the reasons I've thought for a few years that Greg would want a fresh start somewhere else. People talking of holding up "JUDAS" signs at games, or thinking that Greg owes the organization some years, aren't thinking like an employee thinks; they are thinking like a business owner thinks.

If you're going to demand big bucks, life can be horribly unfair sometimes. I'll stand by my "Judas" comment if he leaves for less or equal money.