It's Time to Play Nurkic With the Bench

[Labinot41]

I have a question: Why don't we post up Collins mutiple times in the 2nd unit?

The last two games Zach has gotten the ball one time each game in a post situation and both times made a beautiful combo of moves to get an easy bucket.

Do we go back to him again? No, we don't. That's terrible coaching. It's the same thing when Nurk has it going.

Because Stotts. Since Meyers came into the rotation Collins has been useless, he was much better at Center but hE CaN PLAy pOwER fOWaRD

 

[calvin natt]

its not a terrible idea. something needs to happen, and sometimes a shift in rotations will spark the team short term. again its short term but something needs to be done. the next couple weeks are going to get real ugly.

 

[Chris Craig]

Because Stotts. Since Meyers came into the rotation Collins has been useless, he was much better at Center but hE CaN PLAy pOwER fOWaRD

Collins should be at the 5 when Meyers comes in and have meyers play the 4

 

[BBert]

I don't think it lack of talent it more of lack of effort and the system that Stotts has implement on both ends of the court.

Last night against the Mavs it was also lack of brains.

 

[tester551]

Nurk needs more shots but some of this is on him. Dame was throwing him some great passes last night and Nurk had brick hands and couldn't catch a damn thing on the pick and roll. Also, he needs to STOP BRINGING THE BALL DOWN. Annoys the hell out of me that we don't have a freaking big man coach who can tell him these fundamentals.

I'd have to disagree with the quality of passes Nurk was getting.

They were the right play, but the passes were adequate - not 'great'. Nurk does need to stop bringing the ball down, but Dame could help him with a little bit higher quality passes.

Dame seems to have a habit of making passes a bit too low. When he dumps the ball to Nurk, they are frequently pocket bounce passes that only come up slightly above the knee. When he kicks the ball out to the 3pnt line, most of his passes are near the knees instead of the waist area.

 

[Gronk Brady]

I have a question: Why don't we post up Collins mutiple times in the 2nd unit?

The last two games Zach has gotten the ball one time each game in a post situation and both times made a beautiful combo of moves to get an easy bucket.

Do we go back to him again? No, we don't. That's terrible coaching. It's the same thing when Nurk has it going.

You just don’t get it... as long as CJ is on the team there won’t be enough shots available to give any other player consistent touches... his offense will always be McLillard ISO ball and this team will always be last in assists... CJ has to go... and if Dame won’t let th GM do his job so he can keep his friend around than just blow it up completely and build for the future

 

[BonesJones]

And in turn I’ll bet if you were privileged to know exactly what the coach deals with behind closed doors with the team he could open your eyes a bit also. You have no clue other than what you perceive to be what is going on. Then there are the numerous post by you and many others saying players “Suck” but then again and again this coach exceeds expectations over and over again.
Yeah it’s always easy to blame the coach.

Damn, so coaches are invincible huh? Nobody can be correct in criticizing their on court product because they cant possibly know what they deal with behind closed doors? Do you realize how ridiculous that is?

It's easy to say "our role players suck". You know what's hard? Describing why our coach sucks at a detailed, schematic level, something I've never really seen you do. Thats fine, it's just that you want to talk about others "easy" opinions... nah dude.

And your gonna try to use things said during the course of a game that's in reference to individual plays to try to make your whole point? Yikes.

Tired of people not understanding or listening to the others trying to explain well thought out and detailed opinions how we struggle from a coaching standpoint,. If that happens, fine, just dont come back with so hypocritical stuff like "Thats an easy opinion. Our talent sucks".

 

[BonesJones]

You just don’t get it... as long as CJ is on the team there won’t be enough shots available to give any other player consistent touches... his offense will always be McLillard ISO ball and this team will always be last in assists... CJ has to go... and if Dame won’t let th GM do his job so he can keep his friend around than just blow it up completely and build for the future

I love how all these great posters dont get it, and somehow you (the guy who complains about anything he can) are the enlightened one.

Give C.J. a coach that holds him accountable and preaches back movement. You'd see a change.

Also, why the hell do you call it "McLillard ISO ball"? Dame does a good job of being a lethal scorer that still sets up his teammates.

 

[BonesJones]

Be careful man, you are going to make @BonesJones cry... you are totally right tho... this team has crossed over the line of continuity and are a little too friendly now... no one holds anyone accountable... these guys care more about being friends than winning

How old are you again?

 

[BonesJones]

I love Dame but he needs to show more leadership on the court with his teammates. I see him late really getting on the refs but rarely see him getting on other players. I know it's not his personality to address or critique players, but he could at least try more. He simply needs to be more vocal with his team, as it is, indeed his team. He and Stotts are similar in demeanor thats why Dames loves him so much, but if he ever wants to be a legit super star known as a great leader, he needs to influence his players performance too.
I don't care who you are everyone has areas for improvement, and I'm just saying I think this is an area Dame could improve on. Just my opinion.
Now go ahead and chastise me addressing the Star of the team....

Be careful man, you are going to make @BonesJones cry... you are totally right tho... this team has crossed over the line of continuity and are a little too friendly now... no one holds anyone accountable... these guys care more about being friends than winning

What's funny about this is I actually agree with Guru. This kid man...

 

[oldmangrouch]

I have a question: Why don't we post up Collins mutiple times in the 2nd unit?

The last two games Zach has gotten the ball one time each game in a post situation and both times made a beautiful combo of moves to get an easy bucket.

Do we go back to him again? No, we don't. That's terrible coaching. It's the same thing when Nurk has it going.

RoLo was the ideal Stotts center. He neither needed or even wanted the ball. I seriously wonder if Stotts just doesn't know how to get the ball inside effectively - or if he just won't do it for fear of offending his *star!* backcourt.

 

[Gronk Brady]

RoLo was the ideal Stotts center. He neither needed or even wanted the ball. I seriously wonder if Stotts just doesn't know how to get the ball inside effectively - or if he just won't do it for fear of offending his *star!* backcourt.

It’s because he has to get CJ his touches to justify paying him 28 mil per year

 

[hoopsjock]

You just don’t get it... as long as CJ is on the team there won’t be enough shots available to give any other player consistent touches... his offense will always be McLillard ISO ball and this team will always be last in assists... CJ has to go... and if Dame won’t let th GM do his job so he can keep his friend around than just blow it up completely and build for the future

Gronk, your post doesn't hold up when Collins plays without CJ in the game. If Collins only played when CJ was in then maybe you'd have a point.

 

[TBpup]

They haven't peaked and are not done. They just aren't being used right. Coaching is like playing chess. You control the pieces. Yeah, in basketball the pieces move by themselves, but its a similar scheme. It's tactics, the combination of plays and moves you make as you play the game. The coach has to control the players, he calls plays to use the players in a certain way. He has to utilize his pieces to the best of his ability. At the same time he has to be able to pay attention to the opponents moves, and adapt to the opponent. It is all about tatics and strategy. It's chess and Terry is a terrible player.

The more that description went on, the less it sounded like Stotts.

 

[hoopsjock]

It’s because he has to get CJ his touches to justify paying him 28 mil per year

CJ makes $25,759,766, for the millionth time you don't have to exaggerate to prove your point.

 

[hoopsjock]

RoLo was the ideal Stotts center. He neither needed or even wanted the ball. I seriously wonder if Stotts just doesn't know how to get the ball inside effectively - or if he just won't do it for fear of offending his *star!* backcourt.

This is a good point and is exactly why some feel it is a coaching issue and not a talent issue.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Because Stotts. Since Meyers came into the rotation Collins has been useless, he was much better at Center but hE CaN PLAy pOwER fOWaRD

You're not the only one I've seen blaming Collins' regression on being paired with Meyers. I'm not 100% sure if this is really the case, or perhaps Zach just got off to a really quick start, took the rest of the league by surprise, got scouted and now we are seeing the real Zach. Fuck, that would be depressing.

In any case, if your theory is true (and I am not disagreeing with you), how will playing Nurk with the second unit make things better for Zach? In theory (my theory, this time), if playing next to Meyers make Zach a shitty, foul prone stretch 4, won't playing him next to Nurk make things even worse. I mean, at least Meyers, with his swish3 scoring ability can, in theory, create some space for Zach to operate down low. Nurk can't. Plus, Zach will still need to guard opposing 4s, which seems to be the cause of his astronomical rate of racking up fouls.

So, maybe Meyers needs to sit, which sucks for him, because he's actually playing better than Zach and has proven to (finally) be a solid back up center.

The real problem is we have multiple players who can ONLY play center (Nurk, Meyers, apparently Zach and Biggie), but only one player who is really a power forward (Aminu). So, unless we make a trade, we either bench Meyers, or go with a 3-man rotation at center and play Aminu 48 MPG at the 4 (or give Harkless minutes at the 4, where he is ineffective and a weak rebounder).

The whole point of letting Ed Davis walk was to allow Zach to play more in the low post. In which case, playing him next to Nurk doesn't help. Offensively, he should be fine playing next to Meyers, but isn't. But put him next to any of Nurk, Meyers of Biggie and he's stuck guarding opposing 4s and racking up fouls.

My only hope is Meyers has increased his trade value sufficiently that we can trade him for a solid back-up 4 so Zach can move to the back up center role he seems best suited to play (in theory).

BNM

 

[illmatic99]

My only hope is Meyers has increased his trade value sufficiently that we can trade him for a solid back-up 4 so Zach can move to the back up center role he seems best suited to play (in theory).

BNM

Solid backup 4???

I'd settle for a salary dump without having to throw assets in as incentive. Hell, that open roster spot would be pretty damn valuable.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Solid backup 4???

I'd settle for a salary dump without having to throw assets in as incentive. Hell, that open roster spot would be pretty damn valuable.

Well, if we're going to dump Meyers to play Zach at back up center, we need someone, anyone, who can play the 4 next to him. We can't play Aminu 48 minutes and we can't depend on Harkless (for anything, ever).

BNM

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I'd have to disagree with the quality of passes Nurk was getting.

They were the right play, but the passes were adequate - not 'great'. Nurk does need to stop bringing the ball down, but Dame could help him with a little bit higher quality passes.

Dame seems to have a habit of making passes a bit too low. When he dumps the ball to Nurk, they are frequently pocket bounce passes that only come up slightly above the knee. When he kicks the ball out to the 3pnt line, most of his passes are near the knees instead of the waist area.

This is also coaching.

 

[Gronk Brady]

I love how all these great posters dont get it, and somehow you (the guy who complains about anything he can) are the enlightened one.

Give C.J. a coach that holds him accountable and preaches back movement. You'd see a change.

Also, why the hell do you call it "McLillard ISO ball"? Dame does a good job of being a lethal scorer that still sets up his teammates.

I love how you as a 22 year old child have seen enough over the years to know Terry Stotts is the problem for sure... you have a lot to learn kid... Dame and CJ ain’t changing for nobody... this is who they are

 

[blue9]

... if playing next to Meyers make Zach a shitty, foul prone stretch 4, won't playing him next to Nurk make things even worse. I mean, at least Meyers, with his swish3 scoring ability can, in theory, create some space for Zach to operate down low.

1 - In the limited time they played together Nurk/Vonleh paired well together, despite neither of them camping at the arc to "create space" for the other. Nurk on the left block gets doubled, passes to an open Vonleh on the right block for an easy 10' shot. No reason you can't replace Vonleh with Collins in this scenario.

2 - But what really gets my goat is this idea that you need four players to "create space" for your post player. How is it that the 80s/90s had so many players who dominated in the post despite the fact that hardly anybody was shooting 3-pointers back then?



Jeezus - look at that! Back in the early '80s teams were averaging 108 PPG while only taking 2 - TWO - 3-pointers per game. Now we're averaging 2 - TWO - PPG more, but on TWENTY-NINE more 3-point attempts. If that doesn't prove Pop's point that the 3-pointer has utterly ruined the NBA I don't know what else to say. Fuck this garbage ass game played by talentless hacks.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

or the millionth time you don't have to exaggerate to prove your point.

That was funny.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I love how you as a 22 year old child have seen enough over the years to know Terry Stotts is the problem for sure... you have a lot to learn kid... Dame and CJ ain’t changing for nobody... this is who they are

To be fair, Bones has probably played a lot more organized basketball at 22--and at a higher level--than most of us have at whatever age we are. On the whole, I certainly trust his evaluation of a player or coach a lot more than my own. Seems foolish to denounce him based on his age; he's demonstrated repeatedly that he sees detail and intricacy in the game at a level most don't.

 

[riverman]

So I'm not saying that these guys aren't 'seconds', but look at their increases in production compared to when they were with the Blazers.

Noah Vonleh
FG% - up by 2%
3pt% - up by 35%
Rebs - up by 59%
Assts - up by 400%
Stls - up by 300%
Blks - up by 333%
PPG - up by 233%

Of course much of this is attributed to more minutes but those have only gone up by 76% in comparison. Then there is the, "he's putting up bigger numbers on a bad team" rationale which is true....but at the same time, the Knicks have won 4 of their last 10 while the Blazers have won 3 of their last 10. So how bad are they in comparison over 40% of the season so far?

Pat Connaughton
FG% - up by 3.5%
3pt% - down by 9%
Rebs - up by 213%
Assts - up by 73%
Stls - up by 33%
Blks - up by 233%
PPG - up by 30%

By comparison, Pat has had his increases on a much better team while playing only 7% more minutes.

Not that either of these players would be a franchise changer but certainly Noah, who can switch out onto the perimeter as well as any 'big' the Blazers had and now not being "Vonleh'd" by Stotts' rotation, is putting up significantly better numbers. A defensive PF who can defend multiple positions and shoot .455 from '3'?

Where do I sign up?

I just want to add that while Vonleh and Connaughton are making strides...Crabbe, Rolo, Davis, Bazz and even Plumlee and Batum seem by the eye test to have dropped off since leaving. Crabbe has been absolute dogshit in Brooklyn...

 

[riverman]

We're clearly missing the vocal leadership of Ed Davis and before him Gerald Henderson or Earl Watson, even Chris Kaman or Mo Williams...seems that Pat Connaughton had that energy ….ET seems to be the vocal guy...Chief is at times...Nurk, not so much nor Dame or CJ

 

[TBpup]

I just want to add that while Vonleh and Connaughton are making strides...Crabbe, Rolo, Davis, Bazz and even Plumlee and Batum seem by the eye test to have dropped off since leaving. Crabbe has been absolute dogshit in Brooklyn

Very good point. I'd submit thought that Crabbe got plenty of opportunity here as well as did Davis, Rolo Bazz, Plumlee and Batum. Vonleh and Pat didn't get near the time, reps or opportunities many of those players did. Bazz was allowed to go full CJ at times and Batum was just inherently either lazy at times or just unnervingly uninspired despite very good ability. Once he got paid, it was no surprise at all that he got worse.

 

[illmatic99]

Jeezus - look at that! Back in the early '80s teams were averaging 108 PPG while only taking 2 - TWO - 3-pointers per game. Now we're averaging 2 - TWO - PPG more, but on TWENTY-NINE more 3-point attempts. If that doesn't prove Pop's point that the 3-pointer has utterly ruined the NBA I don't know what else to say. Fuck this garbage ass game played by talentless hacks.

6 fewer FTAs now too. I'd rather see more threes than free throws.

 

[James lamphear]

Yes Zach does foul so does every other player in the league. Majority of Zach foul is contesting shots at the rim and usually he doesn't give up the 3 point play. So if he fouls challenging a shot I can live with that. I am not saying he doesn't pick up some stupid fouls because he does. But so does other players on this team. His scoring is down from earlier this year and a lot to do with not a lot of opportunitys lately. Last he shot the ball twice. But he has been improving his rebounding thou.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yes Zach does foul so does every other player in the league. Majority of Zach foul is contesting shots at the rim and usually he doesn't give up the 3 point play. So if he fouls challenging a shot I can live with that. I am not saying he doesn't pick up some stupid fouls because he does. But so does other players on this team. His scoring is down from earlier this year and a lot to do with not a lot of opportunitys lately. Last he shot the ball twice. But he has been improving his rebounding thou.

He commits a LOT of stupid fouls, both on the perimeter and in the paint. He is constantly bailing out players who are forcing up shots they have zero chance to make. This often happens as a team is trying to get off a shot before the 24-second clock expires. It turns an otherwise good defensive stop into two easy points for the opponent.

BNM