James Harden's defense

[illmatic99]

This is probably referenced in other threads, but it's glaring how bad this guy is. Dame is bad, but he at least tries. Harden doesn't even feign interest in D.

[video]

One of our top priorities on offense must be to attack this guy. Harden's offensive impact can significantly minimized if he drops 30, but gives up 20-25 to Wessy.

And you know Wessy is gonna bring it in the playoffs.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Listen, Harden averages around 30 points in the playoffs and when you can do that. You can get away with not playing defense.

 

[julius]

Listen, Harden averages around 30 points in the playoffs and when you can do that. You can get away with not playing defense.

Not if you want to win titles you can't. His patented try to swipe from behind the player, as he's blown past him, is lazy defense.

can get away with not playing defense...smfh...only losers think they can get away with not playing defense.

 

[illmatic99]

Not if you want to win titles you can't. His patented try to swipe from behind the player, as he's blown past him, is lazy defense.

can get away with not playing defense...smfh...only losers think they can get away with not playing defense.

Ya his bad defense can sorta be neutralized by Dwight and Asik, but only to an extent. Those guys will be getting into foul trouble very quickly if Wes attacks Harden.

His stance on D is appalling. He's standing straight up and flat footed on many of these situations.

 

[julius]

Ya his bad defense can sorta be neutralized by Dwight and Asik, but only to an extent. Those guys will be getting into foul trouble very quickly if Wes attacks Harden.

His stance on D is appalling. He's standing straight up and flat footed on many of these situations.

that is probably why he plays that way. But when was the last team to win a title that used funneling (?) as it's main defensive tactic?

I think Houston fans would give up some of his offense for passable defense. I'd give up some of Damians scoring if his defense was average.

 

[illmatic99]

TBH, I don't think he's funneling-- he's just lazy.

 

[RR7]

We need to have Wesley run him off screens all night ala rip Hamilton

 

[maxiep]

Harden's lack of effort on defense may be a nice thing for us to exploit. Just force him to chase Wes, and then hope Matthews gets hot.

Harden is going to get his. So is Howard. The key is keeping Wes and RoLo out of foul trouble and making Parsons, Beverley and Lin beat you.

Ironically, the Rockets seem to see it the same way. They expect LA and Dame to get theirs, but want to force Nico and Wes to beat them.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Let it be noted that when Corey Brewer scored 51 points it was while playing SG against the Rockets.

 

[Draco]

I'd like to see Harden's man moving without the ball and coming off screens. Harden isn't bad in the post on defense but he is terrible chasing his man around the court. Even if Harden elevates his play on defense during the playoffs having to chase his man will tire Harden. We can have Nic fill in for Wes role with no drop in production, but Houston loses a lot when someone fills in for Harden.

 

[maxiep]

If you can, watch a Houston game or two before the Playoffs. They REALLY lose defensive focus. We're terrific at making the extra pass, and patience is what is required to deal with them. You can attack them in the paint before their defense sets up, but once it does, you just have to move the ball around and run Harden and Parsons off of screens. They'll quit after 15 seconds.

What you don't want to do is allow them to set up their D and let Beverley harrass Lillard so the clock is 12 or under by the time we start running a play. That's death for us.

With Beverley and Howard, they're top 10 on D because they can defend at the point of attack and in the middle. Without them, they are close to the very bottom of the league. Especially without Beverley, because Howard doesn't stray from the key much.

If Lillard can get Beverley in foul trouble, we stand a much better chance of competing with Houston. Lin's best defense is his offense. Otherwise, he's atrocious on D.

 

[blue32]

Wow, the defense was HORRIBLE, and I thought Dame was bad. No Dame is just new, Harden is just flat out lazy. Holy shit.
If WE can't exploit that shit then Stotts is not paying attention.

 

[maxiep]

Wow, the defense was HORRIBLE, and I thought Dame was bad. No Dame is just new, Harden is just flat out lazy. Holy shit.
If WE can't exploit that shit then Stotts is not paying attention.

If Stotts isn't paying attention, I'm pretty sure Wes is.

I think this series will be won at the defensive end. Both teams can flat out score. It will be the team that can make the stop at the end that will win.

 

[blue9]

I think this series will be won at the defensive end. Both teams can flat out score. It will be the team that can make the stop at the end that will win.

This!
And I certainly agree with everyone stating that the offense must go through whoever Harden is guarding. I don't give a fuck if Jones is on LMA, run the offense through Harden's man.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I hope Matthews tries to do to Harden what Beverly is going to try to do Lillard . . . out work him on both sides of the court.

It's playoffs, time for Lillard and Harden to step up their defense and lead their teams on offense.

 

[noknobs]

I like this from the comment section:

Holy shit, wtf does his scouting report look like? "-walk right past him"

I've noticed however that we often don't exploit things like we should. For example, if we get a team in foul trouble early in the quarter we settle for jump shots, or if a guy is in foul trouble they don't keep attacking him like they should.

Whoever Harden is guarding needs to cut back door on him all night long, and if Dwight or Asik comes to help, the bigs need to cut to the basket. Lopez is good at that.

 

[riverman]

The title of this thread is an oxymoron

 

[maxiep]

I think he'll be more active on defense than he was in the regular season. The games mean more, they're further apart and he will become familiar with Wes, Mo and perhaps even Will.

The key is to test his commitment to playing defense. Run him around the court, through screens and see if he gives up and leaves the man he's covering with an open shot.

 

[BBert]

I think he'll be more active on defense than he was in the regular season. The games mean more, they're further apart and he will become familiar with Wes, Mo and perhaps even Will.

The key is to test his commitment to playing defense. Run him around the court, through screens and see if he gives up and leaves the man he's covering with an open shot.

I've been thinking exactly this. Furthermore, just freaking tire him out. There is a reason he loaf's on defense beyond 'because he can'. He is saving himself for offense. Tire him out. Then let's see what he's got left in crunch time.

 

[Blazer4ever]

I hope Matthews tries to do to Harden what Beverly is going to try to do Lillard . . . out work him on both sides of the court.

It's playoffs, time for Lillard and Harden to step up their defense and lead their teams on offense.

Something Stotts would never do but I think could be interesting is having Lillard guard Harden. I think it's worth a try. You put Wesley on Beverly and Nic on Parsons and you make it much harder for them. Harden would get his, anyway, and I actually think he's the type of player Dame can be relatively successful guarding

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Harden's defense just kind of falls over... so to speak.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Something Stotts would never do but I think could be interesting is having Lillard guard Harden. I think it's worth a try. You put Wesley on Beverly and Nic on Parsons and you make it much harder for them. Harden would get his, anyway, and I actually think he's the type of player Dame can be relatively successful guarding

No. Harden would get Dame in foul trouble with a quickness, and that would spell disaster for us.

I think the play is Nic on Harden and Wes on Parsons. I think the Rockets would be smart to use those same match-ups on defense, as I don't think Nic can take advantage of Harden the way Wes can.

 

[maxiep]

No. Harden would get Dame in foul trouble with a quickness, and that would spell disaster for us.

I think the play is Nic on Harden and Wes on Parsons. I think the Rockets would be smart to use those same match-ups on defense, as I don't think Nic can take advantage of Harden the way Wes can.

When you look at the advanced stats, Harden destroyed Nico.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Not if you want to win titles you can't. His patented try to swipe from behind the player, as he's blown past him, is lazy defense.

can get away with not playing defense...smfh...only losers think they can get away with not playing defense.

Didn't you ever read this...It's a similar situation.

Relationships between NBA players and referees were generally all over the board — love, hate, and everything in-between. Some players, even very good ones, were targeted by referees and the league because they were too talented for their own good. Raja Bell, formerly of the Phoenix Suns and now a member of the Charlotte Bobcats, was one of those players. A defensive specialist throughout his career, Bell had a reputation for being a "star stopper." His defensive skills were so razor sharp that he could shut down a superstar, or at least make him work for his points. Kobe Bryant was often frustrated by Bell's tenacity on defense. Let's face it, no one completely shuts down a player of Kobe's caliber, but Bell could frustrate Kobe, take him out of his game, and interrupt his rhythm.

You would think that the NBA would love a guy who plays such great defense. Think again! Star stoppers hurt the promotion of marquee players. Fans don't pay high prices to see players like Raja Bell — they pay to see superstars like Kobe Bryant score 40 points. Basketball purists like to see good defense, but the NBA wants the big names to score big points.

If a player of Kobe's stature collides with the likes of Raja Bell, the call will almost always go for Kobe and against Bell. As part of our ongoing training and game preparation, NBA referees regularly receive game-action video tape from the league office. Over the years, I have reviewed many recorded hours of video involving Raja Bell. The footage I analyzed usually illustrated fouls being called against Bell, rarely for him. The message was subtle but clear — call fouls against the star stopper because he's hurting the game.
If Kobe Bryant had two fouls in the first or second quarter and went to the bench, one referee would tell the other two, "Kobe's got two fouls. Let's make sure that if we call a foul on him, it's an obvious foul, because otherwise he's gonna go back to the bench. If he is involved in a play where a foul is called, give the foul to another player."

Similarly, when games got physically rough, we would huddle up and agree to tighten the game up. So we started calling fouls on guys who didn't really matter — "ticky-tack" or "touch" fouls where one player just touched another but didn't really impede his progress. Under regular circumstances these wouldn't be fouls, but after a skirmish we wanted to regain control. We would never call these types of fouls on superstars, just on the average players who didn't have star status. It was important to keep the stars on the floor.

 

[maxiep]

Didn't you ever read this...It's a similar situation.

Relationships between NBA players and referees were generally all over the board — love, hate, and everything in-between. Some players, even very good ones, were targeted by referees and the league because they were too talented for their own good. Raja Bell, formerly of the Phoenix Suns and now a member of the Charlotte Bobcats, was one of those players. A defensive specialist throughout his career, Bell had a reputation for being a "star stopper." His defensive skills were so razor sharp that he could shut down a superstar, or at least make him work for his points. Kobe Bryant was often frustrated by Bell's tenacity on defense. Let's face it, no one completely shuts down a player of Kobe's caliber, but Bell could frustrate Kobe, take him out of his game, and interrupt his rhythm.

You would think that the NBA would love a guy who plays such great defense. Think again! Star stoppers hurt the promotion of marquee players. Fans don't pay high prices to see players like Raja Bell — they pay to see superstars like Kobe Bryant score 40 points. Basketball purists like to see good defense, but the NBA wants the big names to score big points.

If a player of Kobe's stature collides with the likes of Raja Bell, the call will almost always go for Kobe and against Bell. As part of our ongoing training and game preparation, NBA referees regularly receive game-action video tape from the league office. Over the years, I have reviewed many recorded hours of video involving Raja Bell. The footage I analyzed usually illustrated fouls being called against Bell, rarely for him. The message was subtle but clear — call fouls against the star stopper because he's hurting the game.
If Kobe Bryant had two fouls in the first or second quarter and went to the bench, one referee would tell the other two, "Kobe's got two fouls. Let's make sure that if we call a foul on him, it's an obvious foul, because otherwise he's gonna go back to the bench. If he is involved in a play where a foul is called, give the foul to another player."

Similarly, when games got physically rough, we would huddle up and agree to tighten the game up. So we started calling fouls on guys who didn't really matter — "ticky-tack" or "touch" fouls where one player just touched another but didn't really impede his progress. Under regular circumstances these wouldn't be fouls, but after a skirmish we wanted to regain control. We would never call these types of fouls on superstars, just on the average players who didn't have star status. It was important to keep the stars on the floor.

And this is why the personal foul should be eliminated. Every foul should be a team foul. After seven or eight team fouls in a quarter, you get a three to make two. After ten fouls in a quarter you get an extra free throw (three or four FTs).

In no other sport save for hockey are there personal fouls. And in hockey you can't foul out. You don't eject an offensive lineman for six holding penalties over the course of a game. It would stop the crap of trying to put great players on the bench and stop the superstar call. All players would be treated equally, because there would be no risk of them having to sit out.

 

[blue9]

And this is why the personal foul should be eliminated. Every foul should be a team foul. After seven or eight team fouls in a quarter, you get a three to make two. After ten fouls in a quarter you get an extra free throw (three or four FTs).

In no other sport save for hockey are there personal fouls. And in hockey you can't foul out. You don't eject an offensive lineman for six holding penalties over the course of a game. It would stop the crap of trying to put great players on the bench and stop the superstar call. All players would be treated equally, because there would be no risk of them having to sit out.

That's a pretty interesting idea. It'd be cool to give it a try for a season and see how the players and fans like it.
An unintended consequence is that guys who can't shoot FTs wouldn't be able to play in close games. That happens to some extent now, but it'd be even worse with the proposed changes.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Yeah what happens at 20 fouls for the quarter, because we're playing hack a Dwight?

 

[KingSpeed]

Harden's lack of effort on defense may be a nice thing for us to exploit. Just force him to chase Wes, and then hope Matthews gets hot.

Harden is going to get his. So is Howard. The key is keeping Wes and RoLo out of foul trouble and making Parsons, Beverley and Lin beat you.

Ironically, the Rockets seem to see it the same way. They expect LA and Dame to get theirs, but want to force Nico and Wes to beat them.

Harden and Howard get theirs and we let the other guys try to beat us too? How do we win doing that?? You're confusing strategies. Either we shut down Harden/Howard (meaning they don't get theirs) and let the other guys beat us OR we let Harden/Howard get theirs and shut down the other guys.

 

[RR7]

Harden and Howard get theirs and we let the other guys try to beat us too. How do we win doing that??

I think it's meant as looking at it like, we know Harden's going to get 30. We know Dwight will get close to 30. So you count 60 there, and then put forth your best defensive effort to make sure the other guys, Jones, Beverely, Parsons, and Lin don't get 40 between them.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

And this is why the personal foul should be eliminated. Every foul should be a team foul. After seven or eight team fouls in a quarter, you get a three to make two. After ten fouls in a quarter you get an extra free throw (three or four FTs).

In no other sport save for hockey are there personal fouls. And in hockey you can't foul out. You don't eject an offensive lineman for six holding penalties over the course of a game. It would stop the crap of trying to put great players on the bench and stop the superstar call. All players would be treated equally, because there would be no risk of them having to sit out.

I never thought about that but I like your idea penalize the team for fouls so there is still a disadvantage to having foul prone guys but dont boot players. Repped if possible I think I got you recently though