Politics Jan 14 Dem Debate

[barfo]

What, no debate thread?

I thought they all did pretty well tonight.
Biden had some trouble talking, as usual, but his answers were mostly on point, no Grandpa Simpson stories, and a good closing.
Bernie handled the 'woman can't win' question about as well as he could have. Was generally Bernie otherwise. If you like Bernie, you have no reason to like him less after tonight.
Warren seemed like she had a good debate, no stumbles.
Pete was solid as usual but no game-changers. Was not able to explain why black people don't like him. Seems like that question is a little unfair, there were at least two other candidates onstage who have similar lack of support.
Amy was ok but wasn't as sharp as the prior debate. I don't think this will get her out of single digits.
Steyer I've been pretty dismissive of in the past but he's actually started to grow on me. His staring at the camera is a bit creepy but he did have a couple of good answers tonight.
Overall they didn't attack each other much at all and I was disappointed nobody talked about the Lev Parnas news.

barfo

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I feel the same about Steyer. There's not really too much to dislike about him. He does seem a little weird though.

 

[donkiez]

Warren lost some credibility in my eyes by allowing the Bernie "women can't win" narrative to keep going even though she knows it's BS. She could squash it but opted for the cheap political points . Other than that it was pretty boring.

It appears that Steyer or Bloomberg are just going to buy the nomination at this point.

 

[MARIS61]

Steyer is the crook who bribed Kitzhaber through his wife, giving us Kate Brown.

He made his money as a coal baron, then profited big by inside info when Obama attacked the coal industry for George Soros, who also made billions off the insider trading/getting Obama elected in exchange for his help in taking down the coal industry.

Nothing is ever as it seems.

 

[barfo]

Warren lost some credibility in my eyes by allowing the Bernie "women can't win" narrative to keep going even though she knows it's BS. She could squash it but opted for the cheap political points . Other than that it was pretty boring.

It appears that Steyer or Bloomberg are just going to buy the nomination at this point.

I don't know what they might have said to one another in 2018, but they could be both telling the truth - Bernie thinks he said one thing, and Warren thinks he said something else.
It doesn't matter at all to me. Bernie wanted to attack Warren as an elitist, so she hit back at him as a sexist. Neither charge is entirely true or entirely untrue.

barfo

 

[donkiez]

I don't know what they might have said to one another in 2018, but they could be both telling the truth - Bernie thinks he said one thing, and Warren thinks he said something else.
It doesn't matter at all to me. Bernie wanted to attack Warren as an elitist, so she hit back at him as a sexist. Neither charge is entirely true or entirely untrue.

barfo

Warren didn't confirm or deny. She just said women can win and these guys have been losers before. It was a good quip, but obviously scripted by her fabricated set up.

Seriously do you think Bernie would say that? Makes no sense, it's obvious BS to play to the women power crowd.

The Warren elitist is also unfair but Bernie did nothing to push that during the debate.

 

[yankeesince59]

Steyer is the crook who bribed Kitzhaber through his wife, giving us Kate Brown.

He made his money as a coal baron, then profited big by inside info when Obama attacked the coal industry for George Soros, who also made billions off the insider trading/getting Obama elected in exchange for his help in taking down the coal industry.

Nothing is ever as I just claimed.

FIFY

 

[Lanny]

Steyer is the crook who bribed Kitzhaber through his wife, giving us Kate Brown.

He made his money as a coal baron, then profited big by inside info when Obama attacked the coal industry for George Soros, who also made billions off the insider trading/getting Obama elected in exchange for his help in taking down the coal industry.

Nothing is ever as it seems.

Are you saying that your posts seem like they are nothing? I think you're on to something.

 

[barfo]

Warren didn't confirm or deny. She just said women can win and these guys have been losers before. It was a good quip, but obviously scripted by her fabricated set up.

Seriously do you think Bernie would say that?

Yes, I do. If they are having a meeting trying to convince each other not to run, it makes perfect sense for each of them to make an argument that the other is unelectable. Personally I don't think it's a terrible thing to say given the circumstances, and reality. But it doesn't make Bernie look good, and that's why she used it.

Makes no sense, it's obvious BS to play to the women power crowd.

The Warren elitist is also unfair but Bernie did nothing to push that during the debate.

Right, he pushed it before the debate, that was what started the fight. Bernie's hands are not clean here.

barfo

 

[Hoopguru]

I still don't think either Bernie or EW address very well how they are going to pay for all the freebies. And why they would want to kick mega people off coverage they are perfectly happy with at their own cost?
They side step that always and just think the government can better manage anything.

 

[MARIS61]

I don't know what they might have said to one another in 2018, but they could be both telling the truth - Bernie thinks he said one thing, and Warren thinks he said something else.

barfo

That's my take.

He's too senile to remember that far back, and she has a problem conveying her "personal reality" to the voters.

 

[donkiez]

Yes, I do. If they are having a meeting trying to convince each other not to run, it makes perfect sense for each of them to make an argument that the other is unelectable. Personally I don't think it's a terrible thing to say given the circumstances, and reality. But it doesn't make Bernie look good, and that's why she used it.

I know you dont like Bernie so you automatically side with anything that makes him look bad but this one is pretty weak. A woman did win the last election, Bernie has made that point already, his whole platform is equality and he has a history of supporting women. If the conversation was ever even in that general area then he is purposely being taken out of context and its being leaked by Warren, because why would Bernie leak that? This is a weak hit job on him by someone who should have better standards. I have been a big Warren fan but this whole situation sours me on her considerably.

Right, he pushed it before the debate, that was what started the fight. Bernie's hands are not clean here.

No one said his hands are clean here, its a political dogfight. However Bernie did come out and say that narrative was untrue and not his point of view but rather some overambitious staffers. Warren could have made the same claim but she chose to play coy and let the narrative go on, if it was true should should have challenged Bernie and said "YES you did say that!", she didnt do that and she didnt say it was untrue, she is purposely keeping that whole situation ambiguous.

 

[yankeesince59]

I think Sanders and Warren should be locked naked in a room till at least one of them "gets their cookies"...they're so far left that they'd make the perfect couple.

 

[barfo]

I know you dont like Bernie so you automatically side with anything that makes him look bad but this one is pretty weak. A woman did win the last election, Bernie has made that point already, his whole platform is equality and he has a history of supporting women. If the conversation was ever even in that general area then he is purposely being taken out of context and its being leaked by Warren, because why would Bernie leak that? This is a weak hit job on him by someone who should have better standards. I have been a big Warren fan but this whole situation sours me on her considerably.

No doubt at all that Warren's camp leaked it. But why do you hold Warren to a higher standard than Bernie?

It's not true that I don't like Bernie. He's not my favorite candidate, but he's hard to dislike.

No one said his hands are clean here, its a political dogfight. However Bernie did come out and say that narrative was untrue and not his point of view but rather some overambitious staffers.

Well, either he has no control over his senior staff, which would raise serious questions about his management abilities as President, or he's lying about approving the hit job.
Either way, it's not a good look.

Warren could have made the same claim but she chose to play coy and let the narrative go on, if it was true should should have challenged Bernie and said "YES you did say that!", she didnt do that and she didnt say it was untrue, she is purposely keeping that whole situation ambiguous.

So you are saying she's good at politics? Hmm, maybe she's electable after all.

barfo

 

[donkiez]

No doubt at all that Warren's camp leaked it. But why do you hold Warren to a higher standard than Bernie?

It's not true that I don't like Bernie. He's not my favorite candidate, but he's hard to dislike.

I hold them both to very high standards. In this case Warren disappointed me Sanders didn't.

Well, either he has no control over his senior staff, which would raise serious questions about his management abilities as President, or he's lying about approving the hit job.
Either way, it's not a good look.

agreed its not a good look but shit happens and its how you react that makes the difference.

So you are saying she's good at politics? Hmm, maybe she's electable after all.

Her electability has never been in question in my mind. She has led the pack at times so I dont think its in question in any ones mind other than the persecution complex group she is currently pandering to.

 

[barfo]

I hold them both to very high standards. In this case Warren disappointed me Sanders didn't.

agreed its not a good look but shit happens and its how you react that makes the difference.

From my point of view both are equally at fault yet you are giving Bernie a 'shit happens' free pass, whereas Warren is a disappointment.

But in the end, I think this will all be forgotten in a couple of days, maybe sooner.

barfo

 

[donkiez]

From my point of view both are equally at fault yet you are giving Bernie a 'shit happens' free pass, whereas Warren is a disappointment.

Because of their reactions. Bernie handled his situation in respectable manner. Warren did not.

But in the end, I think this will all be forgotten in a couple of days, maybe sooner.

Probably, its mostly just noise and something to talk about at this point. I doubt it has changed anyone's mind in a major way.

 

[barfo]

Because of their reactions. Bernie handled his situation in respectable manner. Warren did not.

Agree to disagree on that. I thought they both handled it very well.

I don't think it helped either of them though, and to the extent it hurt them, I would point the finger at Bernie, since he started it.

Probably, its mostly just noise and something to talk about at this point. I doubt it has changed anyone's mind in a major way.

Agree to agree on that.

barfo

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Bernie cucks out again.

Big surprise

 

[calvin natt]

Pete looks too rehearsed most of the time. It’s cringeworthy. Sanders looks like he’s about five breathes from keeling over. Amy needs to go already. I want badly to like and believe in Biden but just can’t get over the talking/mistakes. I worry Warren is too left and won’t be able to deliver most of what she’s promising. Steyer makes a lot of good points and I usually find myself agreeing with most of what he says. But can he really win? Again it all boils down to anyone but Trump.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I've never seen anything as blatant as CNN constantly attacking and framing questions against Bernie Sanders. Shame on them. They are supposed to at least appear impartial but it was apparent they were carrying water for a whole lot of industries who are deathly afraid of a Bernie presidency.

 

[barfo]

That reminds me - the moderators of last night's debate were AWFUL. Completely shit.

barfo

 

[yankeesince59]

I've never seen anything as blatant as CNN constantly attacking and framing questions against Bernie Sanders. Shame on them. They are supposed to at least appear impartial but it was apparent they were carrying water for a whole lot of industries who are deathly afraid of a Bernie presidency.

It's not just CNN...Bernie is neither practical nor electable.

 

[donkiez]

I've never seen anything as blatant as CNN constantly attacking and framing questions against Bernie Sanders. Shame on them. They are supposed to at least appear impartial but it was apparent they were carrying water for a whole lot of industries who are deathly afraid of a Bernie presidency.

I thought the same thing. Pretty shitty moderation and they were trying really hard to provoke fights. Bernie is the current lead so he got it worse than usual. It's not worth complaining about though because the anti Sanders crowd justifies and relishes in bias with irrational statements like

It's not just CNN...Bernie is neither practical nor electable

Despite his lead in the polls and strong following.

 

[yankeesince59]

Despite his lead in the polls and strong following.

Yes.

 

[donkiez]

Everyone seems to be coming around on Steyer. I agree that his positions seem reasonable but are we all ok with the new political precedent being set with billionaires buying elections and credibility?

"Bloomberg and Steyer's spending binges start to pay off"

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/10/bloomberg-steyer-2020-097326

 

[donkiez]

"The top four winners of last night’s debate, according to Google searches and the number of tweets about each candidate, were Bernie Sanders, followed by Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, and then Andrew Yang. Ironically, Yang wasn’t even on the debate stage"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...st-nights-primary-debate-without-attending-it

 

[Hoopguru]

I didn't like Warrens response to why should Rich kids get free college?
She basically said that if they Billionaires paid their taxes she didn't care if they got free college.
Pete was more sincere and practical in his response where she kind of brushed it off as no big deal.

 

[donkiez]

I didn't like Warrens response to why should Rich kids get free college?
She basically said that if they Billionaires paid their taxes she didn't care if they got free college.
Pete was more sincere and practical in his response where she kind of brushed it off as no big deal.

I'm with Warren on this one. Free school should be free for everyone rather than a tier system, or there should be a free option for everyone if they want it. The reality is that rich people will still pay for private schools with better reputations. No one expects Harvard to be free, it's going to be state schools.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'm with Warren on this one. Free school should be free for everyone rather than a tier system, or there should be a free option for everyone if they want it. The reality is that rich people will still pay for private schools with better reputations. No one expects Harvard to be free, it's going to be state schools.

Years ago when my son went to Oregon and I was a single dad making decent money I was told because I made to0 much as his parent there was no assistance available, He was able to get a loan and he has paid it off. I don't agree that it should be free to those that have the money. It just drives the overall cost up when it doesn't have too.