Politics Jan 14 Dem Debate

[donkiez]

Years ago when my son went to Oregon and I was a single dad making decent money I was told because I made to0 much as his parent there was no assistance available, He was able to get a loan and he has paid it off. I don't agree that it should be free to those that have the money. It just drives the overall cost up when it doesn't have too.

I guess I don't follow your logic, how does free drive up the overall cost?

Edit: also are you ok with free for poor or mid class people?

 

[Hoopguru]

I guess I don't follow your logic, how does free drive up the overall cost?

Ok...if the gov pays for 100 free tuitions rather than 85 what has the high cost tied to it?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[donkiez]

Ok...if the gov pays for 100 free tuitions rather than 85 what has the high cost tied to it?

I still don't understand exactly what you are saying but I'll give it a shot anyway. Full tuition payment gives the government negotiation power. I think that cost increase is much worse with guaranteed loans to everyone, then people buy with no link to cost and the school asks what they want with no oversight. Resulting in graduates who have crippling unforgivable debt without realizing the problem until it's to late.

There is also a government run school potential that would work like a high school works now.

 

[donkiez]

Juicy

 

[Hoopguru]

I still don't understand exactly what you are saying but I'll give it a shot anyway. Full tuition payment gives the government negotiation power. I think that cost increase is much worse with guaranteed loans to everyone, then people buy with no link to cost and the school asks what they want with no oversight. Resulting in graduates who have crippling unforgivable debt without realizing the problem until it's to late.

There is also a government run school potential that would work like a high school works now.

Why can’t you incorporate both?
Bottom line regardless what system is used it must be managed properly.
For public schools in Oregon they are funded primarily from property tax. That property tax is proportional to the value of the property and tax schedule. Im for a progressive tax structure and Pete’s way when it come to funding education and Medicare.
I respect your take very much!

 

[jonnyboy]

Yes.

Your personal opinion means dick. He’s not your guy so you’re making up fake metrics like “electability” to try and discredit. It’s complete nonsense.

 

[donkiez]

Why can’t you incorporate both?
Bottom line regardless what system is used it must be managed properly.
For public schools in Oregon they are funded primarily from property tax. That property tax is proportional to the value of the property and tax schedule. Im for a progressive tax structure and Pete’s way when it come to funding education and Medicare.
I respect your take very much!

I think you can have both. A public funded option and a private option. Public funded would keep the cost in check for the private, and the private would keep the standards up for the public. Arguing over who is eligible for the public option based on income is just a distraction and makes no difference in the long run.

Personally I don't mind paying a reasonable amount more in taxes for usable services that make our country better and stronger, even if I don't personally use them.

 

[barfo]

I'm with Warren on this one. Free school should be free for everyone rather than a tier system, or there should be a free option for everyone if they want it. The reality is that rich people will still pay for private schools with better reputations. No one expects Harvard to be free, it's going to be state schools.

Agreed. I'm for Pete in general, but I think he's wrong on this one. Make the billionaires pay taxes, the tuition to state schools that they won't attend anyway is trivial. You'll spend as much on the infrastructure of figuring out who gets charged and who doesn't as you'll collect.

That said, I'm not sure I'm even for free college in the first place. That just doesn't seem like the most pressing problem we have.

barfo

 

[donkiez]

You'll spend as much on the infrastructure of figuring out who gets charged and who doesn't as you'll collect

That's the same reason for my biggest issue with Warren and her wealth tax also. There are better ways to accomplish what she wants to do there and they will just find loopholes in reporting.

That said, I'm not sure I'm even for free college in the first place. That just doesn't seem like the most pressing problem we have.

Agreed it's probably not our biggest problem but it is a big problem and one that will compound over the decades. I feel like we owe it to our youth and country to make sure they have the opportunity to be successful and can accumulate wealth. I was lucky, I had a company pay for my education and the head start it gave me in life made a big difference. I bought a house and started saving for retirement early, I also can afford a few luxuries to enjoy in my life and have paid for my wife to go back to school. All because I wasn't hamstrung with student debt.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

That's the same reason for my biggest issue with Warren and her wealth tax also. There are better ways to accomplish what she wants to do there and they will just find loopholes in reporting.



Agreed it's probably not our biggest problem but it is a big problem and one that will compound over the decades. I feel like we owe it to our youth and country to make sure they have the opportunity to be successful and can accumulate wealth. I was lucky, I had a company pay for my education and the head start it gave me in life made a big difference. I bought a house and started saving for retirement early, I also can afford a few luxuries to enjoy in my life and have paid for my wife to go back to school. All because I wasn't hamstrung with student debt.

I am not against free college, but I really don't think it would solve much. Even now, college graduates can't find good jobs in their fields. How is that going to get better with more people going to college? This is the main topic where I think Yang has the better answers. We need to stop having people's education and jobs be the only measure of their worth. Automation is not stopping, it's ramping up.

 

[yankeesince59]

Your personal opinion means dick. He’s not your guy so you’re making up fake metrics like “electability” to try and discredit. It’s complete nonsense.

lol...no, actually, your opinion of my opinion means dick.

 

[jonnyboy]

lol...no, actually, your opinion of my opinion means dick.

Good one.

 

[donkiez]

I am not against free college, but I really don't think it would solve much. Even now, college graduates can't find good jobs in their fields. How is that going to get better with more people going to college? This is the main topic where I think Yang has the better answers. We need to stop having people's education and jobs be the only measure of their worth. Automation is not stopping, it's ramping up.

I completely agree. Free college or education availability by itself is only part of the puzzle. Yang is the best candidate on the board by far. I am working in high tech manufacturing and i am watching it become automated before my eyes. It's crazy, awesome and scary all at the same time. We now hire people with more education than i have for much more basic jobs and way less money, and they are entering the job with double or triple the debt of people from my generation. Eventually we won't even need them. Education availability extends beyond just getting a job though, smarter people make better decisions in general and contribute to society in a diverse way which directly or indirectly is beneficial to everyone.

 

[oldfisherman]

First, enjoyed everyones debate about the debate.

WTF!
Bernie tucks tail and runs away. He feels entitled to everything, and accountable to no one.

Bernie kind of reminds me of Mr Magoo. But that would be insulting a cartoon character.

Hope Warren kicks Bernies ass out of the race.

 

[Hoopguru]

Im even less impressed with her now.

 

[Lanny]

Im even less impressed with her now.

Me too. And she used to be high on my list.

 

[jonnyboy]

First, enjoyed everyones debate about the debate.



WTF!
Bernie tucks tail and runs away. He feels entitled to everything, and accountable to no one.

Bernie kind of reminds me of Mr Magoo. But that would be insulting a cartoon character.

Hope Warren kicks Bernies ass out of the race.

Meh. He chose not to feed the troll. Good on him. Warren’s little stunt appears to be backfiring. Seems every time she tries to bring up something about her past to get ahead she falls flat on her face. Native heritage, fired for being pregnant, kids going to public school and now the Bernie thing. It all turned out to be bullshit. I think she will be gone soon.

 

[yankeesince59]

Warren overplayed her hand...big time.

 

[barfo]

I'm not sure about some of these takes about the Warren/Bernie fisticuffs. I don't see how it came out badly for her.

barfo

 

[yankeesince59]

I'm not sure about some of these takes about the Warren/Bernie fisticuffs. I don't see how it came out badly for her.

barfo

Don't care for Bernie's policies and don't care for Warren's policies either, mostly because they are both just way too far left, but, I simply think she was out of line by confronting Sanders on stage about their silly little feud about something that happened years ago and should not be an issue. IMO, it was the wrong place and the wrong time to make her point and I think it makes her come off as petty.
Again, I don't agree with her hammering Bernie over and over concerning something that really should not be an issue, just as it should not be an issue for Bernie to bring up "Pocahontas" if he were to do so.

But unfortunately, and I think you'll agree, that sometimes an individual's only avenue to make themselves look good, is to try to make someone else look bad.

 

[barfo]

Don't care for Bernie's policies and don't care for Warren's policies either, mostly because they are both just way too far left, but, I simply think she was out of line by confronting Sanders on stage about their silly little feud about something that happened years ago and should not be an issue. IMO, it was the wrong place and the wrong time to make her point and I think it makes her come off as petty.

Wasn't she reacting to what Bernie had said just a few minutes prior, not from Dec 2018?

But unfortunately, and I think you'll agree, that sometimes an individual's only avenue to make themselves look good, is to try to make someone else look bad.

Yes, that's what both of them tried to do. I think it was a draw.

barfo

 

[Hoopguru]

Don't care for Bernie's policies and don't care for Warren's policies either, mostly because they are both just way too far left, but, I simply think she was out of line by confronting Sanders on stage about their silly little feud about something that happened years ago and should not be an issue. IMO, it was the wrong place and the wrong time to make her point and I think it makes her come off as petty.
Again, I don't agree with her hammering Bernie over and over concerning something that really should not be an issue, just as it should not be an issue for Bernie to bring up "Pocahontas" if he were to do so.

But unfortunately, and I think you'll agree, that sometimes an individual's only avenue to make themselves look good, is to try to make someone else look bad.

agree 100%.
CNN baited Bernie into it I thought and its obvious they have their preference.
They never came out and asked EW if he indeed said it rather they asked her what her feelings were assuming he did, directly after he denied it.

 

[donkiez]

For what it's worth i don't think it affected Warrens overall standing much. At this point the dems are pretty solidly divided between moderates and progressives and there's not much either side can do to sway the others voters. Which leaves Bernie and Warren both competing for the same voters. Both have zealot like followings but would still prefer the other over a moderate. I feel like Warren and Sanders would still be better off being buddies for now everyone seemed to love them when they teamed up against Biden, but i think with Warren slipping some she got desperate and took a swing for the fences.

 

[yankeesince59]

Wasn't she reacting to what Bernie had said just a few minutes prior, not from Dec 2018?
barfo

Not entirely sure but we know that this all stemmed from something that occurred years ago...but if she felt that strongly about it I think she should have confronted him then and there, not after the debate was over...yeah, it still may have portrayed her as "petty" but at the same time it may have given her the appearance, wrongfully or not, as being strong and more assertive and not willing to take any crap.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[yankeesince59]

agree 100%.
CNN baited Bernie into it I thought and its obvious they have their preference.
They never came out and asked EW if he indeed said it rather they asked her what her feelings were assuming he did, directly after he denied it.

Yeah, it does seem that CNN is a bit biased towards Warren.

 

[yankeesince59]

For what it's worth i don't think it affected Warrens overall standing much. At this point the dems are pretty solidly divided between moderates and progressives and there's not much either side can do to sway the others voters. Which leaves Bernie and Warren both competing for the same voters. Both have zealot like followings but would still prefer the other over a moderate. I feel like Warren and Sanders would still be better off being buddies for now everyone seemed to love them when they teamed up against Biden, but i think with Warren slipping some she got desperate and took a swing for the fences.

That's just it, she doesn't really have much of a standing at this point...and I agree that she may be desperate and figures she has nothing else to lose by "going postal"...lol.

 

[jonnyboy]

IMO, it was the wrong place and the wrong time to make her point and I think it makes her come off as petty.

The fact that she’s apparently been holding this in her back pocket all this time while we’ve all seen her shaking hands and hugging Bernie in the meantime just makes her seem disingenuous. She’s just made it obvious that she’s only playing a game. It’s not a good look.

 

[barfo]

That's just it, she doesn't really have much of a standing at this point...and I agree that she may be desperate and figures she has nothing else to lose by "going postal"...lol.

She's in the top four, it's not like she's an also-ran. It is the case that Bernie's supporters are more committed to him than hers are to her, however. She's a lot of people's second choice, but needs more firm first-choices.

I think from her point of view she was trying to show that she wasn't going to be pushed around by Bernie. He hit her, so she hit back harder.

It seems neither campaign was damaged, but we may find out only later that 12 staffers had to be evacuated due to concussive injuries.

If I had to bet today on who wins Iowa, I'd bet on Biden. But it could be any of the top 4, including Bernie and Warren.

barfo

 

[barfo]

The fact that she’s apparently been holding this in her back pocket all this time while we’ve all seen her shaking hands and hugging Bernie in the meantime just makes her seem disingenuous. She’s just made it obvious that she’s only playing a game. It’s not a good look.

Same goes for Bernie, who after all threw the first punch. Guess what, they both want to win.

barfo