Jason, Jason, Jason.... = (

[barfo]

He never said it was the right choice? What does he think his vote means, other than he thinks it's the right choice?

barfo

 

[oldmangrouch]

I love some of the revisionism going on here.

Before the season, virtually EVERYONE was predicting that the Nuggets were going to be substantially *worse* than last season. Instead they are a *better* team than they were a year ago. But hey....Billups sucks, right?

Some of you have no sense of shame!

 

[Uther TheGardener]

do you notice that most of the otes are for players and coaches east of the rockies........

 

[Ed O]

I thought I was the only one crazy enough to think that Roy wasn't a top 10 player?

Hmm.

Ed O.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I thought I was the only one crazy enough to think that Roy wasn't a top 10 player?

Hmm.

Feel better? Maybe Canzano, Swirsky and Ron Boone will join you.

BNM

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

Jason "Swirsky" Quick.....

no way should Dwill be ahead of BRoy this year.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Jason "Swirsky" Quick.....

no way should Dwill be ahead of BRoy this year.

Actually, this makes Quick the anti-Swirsky (or anti-Boone). Swirsky pulled the homer vote by picking his home team rook, Bargnani, over Roy for ROY in 2007 (and Boone pulled a similar homer vote as the only one to pick Williams over Chris Paul for ROY the year before). Quick did the exact opposite. He dissed his own team's player (who is significantly better statistically AND has lead his team to more wins) and voted for Williams over Roy for 2nd team all-NBA.

The good thing is it's only one vote. Hopefully, more knowledgeable writers from other markets will make the obvious choice, the same one the coaches made when voting for the all-star reserves, and vote for Roy over Williams.

I'd still love to hear Quick's reasoning for this vote. Just when he was starting to gain a little credibility around here, he pulls a boneheaded move like this. Roy has been better than Williams, and had a more positive impact on his team's won/loss record. I'd like to know in exactly what way Quick thinks Williams is more deserving than Roy for 2nd team all-NBA.

Asking the league to change his vote to Duncan over Durant screams unprofessional. It's like admitting he knows so little about the NBA he forgot Tim Duncan existed and wants a do-over to cover-up his own stupidity.

BNM

 

[STOMP]

WTF is this? Is he trying to get some cred by trying NOT to be a homer? In the end he just looks like an ass.

if it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck...

JQ has been the same guy for quite a while now.

STOMP

 

[PapaG]

I thought I was the only one crazy enough to think that Roy wasn't a top 10 player?

Hmm.

Ed O.

IIRC, your argument was that Roy wasn't a Top 10 player right now because you factored in his play outside of this season. Perhaps I am wrong on that one, but regardless, Quick's pick is based on this season's play solely, and not any subjective window that helps someone "win" an argument on the internet.

Roy is 7th in the NBA right now in PER for this season; Williams is 19th. For someone so dedicated to using PER as an objective matrix, you sure seem willing to dump it when is so obviously contradicts your own subjective opinion.

FWIW, Billups is 38th in PER; LMA is 31st.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I assume all of you bashing Quick were not the same people bashing Swirsky for voting for Bargnani for ROY? Quick isn't being a homer, and I think he should be comended for it.

 

[Minstrel]

Quick isn't being a homer, and I think he should be comended for it.

You should only be commended "for not being a homer" when you're making the right pick, rather than the emotional one. A Chicago reporter picking against Michael Jordan in his prime in order to "not be a homer" would have been a moron and should not have been "commended."

Not that Roy is Jordan, obviously, but just blindly being against home-town players is as silly as being blindly for them. Roy was better than Deron Williams by virtually every metric this season.

 

[PapaG]

I assume all of you bashing Quick were not the same people bashing Swirsky for voting for Bargnani for ROY? Quick isn't being a homer, and I think he should be comended for it.

Roy had every relevant statistical edge over Bargnani, just as he has the obvious objective statisitcal edge (and plays on a better team) than Deron Williams. I'll admit that the Swirsky pick was even more ridiculous, but I've yet to see anyone defend why Deron Williams should be ahead of Roy other than some people saying that he didn't play enough games, so we don't know how good Utah would have been, which is hilarious if you think about it.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Roy had every relevant statistical edge over Bargnani, just as he has the obvious objective statisitcal edge (and plays on a better team) than Deron Williams. I'll admit that the Swirsky pick was even more ridiculous, but I've yet to see anyone defend why Deron Williams should be ahead of Roy other than some people saying that he didn't play enough games, so we don't know how good Utah would have been, which is hilarious if you think about it.

2 words: position bias. If you have 2 roughly equal players, one a PG and one a SG, many fans assume the PG is more valuable.

The irony is, Blazer fans are the last group who get to complain about that logic, as we constantly use it to defend Oden.

 

[Minstrel]

2 words: position bias. If you have 2 roughly equal players, one a PG and one a SG, many fans assume the PG is more valuable.

Williams and Roy weren't roughly equal this season. Roy played significantly more and played significantly better.

 

[Masbee]

Well, I think Brandon is a top 5 player in the NBA. At they very least, he's more valuable than Chauncy freakin Billups. I mean, come on, that was an obvious attempt to look non-biased. I hate it when people are not genuine...but what do I know, maybe he really thinks that.

But it's hard to understand, since he would have watched Roy single handedly win many games for us this year. Roy has taken over and scored in the clutch so many times this season...he's easily a top 5 talent.

I think if you have been reading Jason Quick for years as I have, you would have long ago realized (as I long ago have) that Quick's opinions on basketball, players, coaches, predictions, and other NBA related, can be off-base for someone with so much access to quality information. Many posters are sharper about these topics than Quick is. Kinda strange really. Quick should stick to facts, writing and his storytelling.

 

[STOMP]

Williams and Roy weren't roughly equal this season. Roy played significantly more and played significantly better.

and of course his young team won significantly more games while the vet Jazz have faded down the stretch

STOMP

 

[Masbee]

I assume all of you bashing Quick were not the same people bashing Swirsky for voting for Bargnani for ROY? Quick isn't being a homer, and I think he should be comended for it.

I was a big basher of Swirsky. There goes that (strange) theory.

Quick should be commended for not being a homer? Yet he votes for Travis for 6th man and McMillian for coach of the year. Both borderline votes, not shared by the majority of other voters. Quick was a homer for those votes.

So, you commend him for not being a homer in the vote - yet he was.

And when it comes to where to slot Roy, he didn't need to be a homer to place him above Williams, as all evidence, facts, results and the objective observer votes validate.

Quick NOT being a homer was him not voting for Roy for MVP, or placing him above Kobe, Wade and Paul in the guard slots. Quick placing him below inferior performances for this season - is....well - it is just Quick pulling a Quick. Doh!

Let's face it, Quick is a lightweight, trying to do too much. He just should have cast his votes in silence to hide his mediocrity.

Thanks for the reminder Jason. For a minute there I was forgetting how clueless you can sometimes be.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Williams and Roy weren't roughly equal this season. Roy played significantly more and played significantly better.

C'mon guys.

Roy played in 9 more games than Williams

Roy scores more (22.8 to 19.4) and rebounds more

Williams gets a lot more assists and has a slight edge in EFF

Williams has 44 double/doubles, Brandon has 3

Roy Shoots a little better, and turns the ball over less

Williams has a better assist/TO ratio than Roy


Roy is significantly better? I also think Roy probably deserves to be on the second team, but it's not like Williams is any worse than Brandon. They are pretty damn equal, and it's going to be one of those beauty in the eye of the beholder type of things.

The guy with the beef should be Tony Parker, who statistically is better than both of them. And he plays on a team as good as Roy does.

 

[Minstrel]

Roy is significantly better? I also think Roy probably deserves to be on the second team, but it's not like Williams is any worse than Brandon. They are pretty damn equal, and it's going to be one of those beauty in the eye of the beholder type of things.

"Winning" categories is no way to judge players. "Winning" steals per game is not as important as "winning" points per game or scoring efficiency or any number of things, for example.

By PER, which incorporates everything except defense, Roy was significantly ahead this season.

Roy: 24.7
Williams: 21.1

20.0 is borderline All-Star....25.0 is superstar level. Roy has played at about superstar level this year, Williams like an average All-Star. Williams is tremendous, but Roy was simply better.

And yes, 9 games is significantly more. It's a ninth of the season. Had Roy played 9 games less, the Blazers likely don't have a chance at HCA going into their final game.

The guy with the beef should be Tony Parker, who statistically is better than both of them. And he plays on a team as good as Roy does.

Parker was on the same level as Williams, not ahead of Roy.

 

[Sinobas]

I love some of the revisionism going on here.

Before the season, virtually EVERYONE was predicting that the Nuggets were going to be substantially *worse* than last season. Instead they are a *better* team than they were a year ago. But hey....Billups sucks, right?

Some of you have no sense of shame!

Saying someone is not a top 5 player in the NBA is the same as saying the suck?

And it's irrelevant what anyone thought before the season started. The Nuggets have improved by 4 games, the Blazers have improved by 13 games, does that mean Oden, or Rudy should be MVP canidates?

No one disagrees that Billups has made the Nuggets a better team, but making your team better is not a decisive factor in MVP voting. There are dozens and dozens of players out there that could go make a team 4 games better. You also have to be top notch NBA talent. Billups is simply a good player, not in the realm of Brandon Roy.

 

[Sinobas]

I thought I was the only one crazy enough to think that Roy wasn't a top 10 player?

Hmm.

Ed O.

Probably not, but many people are excused due to ignorance.

If all the NBA players were placed into a common draft pool, and you were the GM of the team with the #1 pick, name me 10 players you'd select over Brandon Roy.

 

[andalusian]

I thought I was the only one crazy enough to think that Roy wasn't a top 10 player?

Hmm.

Really? Using Quick as your benchmark for analysis excellence? Are you sure you are happy about this? Sure this is the rudder you want to attach to your ship?

How soon are we going to get bathroom reports from you?

 

[Minstrel]

If all the NBA players were placed into a common draft pool, and you were the GM of the team with the #1 pick, name me 10 players you'd select over Brandon Roy.

Personally, I'd take James, Paul, Wade, Kobe and Howard. After that, I'd take Roy. So he's top-six for me.

 

[BlazersBlood]

Personally, I'd take James, Paul, Wade, Kobe and Howard. After that, I'd take Roy. So he's top-six for me.

Yup, you gotta leave the old guys out at this point. KG, Kidd, & Duncan are on the decline. You could possibly make a case for Yao and Dirk. Some could argue for Deron Williams since elite point guards are hard to find. Selfish superstars like Vince and McGrady aren't even in the running.

I think you would have a hard time NOT putting Roy in the top 10 when you consider age and injuries.

 

[Minstrel]

Selfish superstars like Vince and McGrady aren't even in the running.

I don't think Carter and McGrady are selfish (especially not McGrady, who was always one of the most willing and good passers of the volume scorers), but they're not superstars anymore. McGrady has been ruined by injuries and Carter is declining due to age.

Yao is arguable, I agree, but his last couple of seasons haven't been as strong as his prime a few years ago. But his effect on a team defense closes the gap with Roy.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Parker was on the same level as Williams, not ahead of Roy.

By PER:

Roy 24.21 (7th overall)
Parker 23.42 (8th overall)
Williams 21.13 (19th overall)


Parker is not ahead of Roy, but by PER he is a lot closer to Roy than he is to Williams.

Now, if I was picking who I would want on my team playing next to Roy - I would go with Williams. I know, that is very subjective.

 

[Minstrel]

By PER:

Roy 24.21 (7th overall)
Parker 23.42 (8th overall)
Williams 21.13 (19th overall)


Parker is not ahead of Roy, but by PER he is a lot closer to Roy than he is to Williams.

That's true. I didn't check Parker's PER today. I last checked it a month or so ago and it was closer to 21-22.

Now, if I was picking who I would want on my team playing next to Roy - I would go with Williams. I know, that is very subjective.

Yeah, it's a tough call. And I actually think Williams is generally a talent on par with Roy. I just don't think there's any real justification for giving Williams year-end awards over Roy this season.

 

[STOMP]

Personally, I'd take James, Paul, Wade, Kobe and Howard. After that, I'd take Roy. So he's top-six for me.

Is this based on how they performed in 2008/9? If so, after those 6 I'd take Ming and maybe Dirk before Roy and arguably Granger... so I've got him on the cusp of the top 10.

It's been a great season for him and others

STOMP

 

[Minstrel]

Is this based on how they performed in 2008/9? If so, after those 6 I'd take Ming and maybe Dirk before Roy and arguably Granger... so I've got him on the cusp of the top 10.

It's been a great season for him and others

My appraisal of their current level of ability. That's largely based on this season, but there is some amount of past seasons involved.

I like Granger, but I don't think he's a superstar whereas I think Roy arguably is. Yao a few seasons ago I'd take ahead of Roy. Same for Dirk. Both have fallen off a bit from their best seasons, but I do think Yao could quite arguably go ahead of Roy.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Man, I hope Roy ignores Quick for a while.

i'm fine with Roy being third team (even though he should be second team)... but if you're moving him down, it should be because of Tony Parker and not Deron Williams.

Quick has seen the light. He admitted this afternoon that he screwed the pooch in putting Williams over Roy, and he contacted the NBA to have his ballot altered.