Jason Quick "deal for Harris very real"

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Nikolokolus said:
Finding a nascent star in the draft to pair with LMA ... your approach could work, but if I was laying Vegas odds I'd put my money on the team getting lucky in the draft before I'd lay money that Greg is suddenly going to start staying healthy long enough for this team to rely on him in a playoff run.
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I'd put my odds on Oden having healthy-ish seasons. The number of franchise-changing superstars that have been mined from the draft are insanely, insanely low when compared to the number of draft picks spent by all franchises over the years. Especially if you eliminate top-five picks (as the team isn't nearly bad enough to get one).

Of course, as others have noted, you can do both.
 
B-Roy said:
Boston gutted everything except Pierce to get Allen and KG. Depending on what's out there, the Blazers can do the same thing and keep Aldridge.
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And that's worked out real well for the T'Wolves, right? How many stupid GMs are we supposed to rely upon for this plan to work?
 
If Oden is the next Eddy Curry, then trading him for the most you can get for him before his value drops to zero would a better route to a championship then keeping him on the roster.

Really only Blazer personnel can intelligently guess the likelihood of Oden coming back and being a dominant player, a productive player or little chance of putting a whole season together. I hope they act accordingly.
 
e_blazer said:
I don't see that these options are mutually exclusive.
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Sure ... unless trading Oden was the difference between getting a high lottery selection (hypothetically speaking). If you can keep Oden and reasonable contract terms can be agreed to that make sense for both he and the organization I don't have a problem keeping him as some kind of X-factor ala Andrew Bynum, but he absolutely cannot be a foundation piece moving forward, that's folly.
 
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B-Roy said:
Im just not banking on Oden. Obviously I wouldnt give him up for nothing, but anything he gives us from now on will be gravy. And if the right deal came along, I'd pack Odens bags.
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I'm not banking on him, but I'd like to keep him around. It's extremely rare that you get a player as talented as Oden. His injury situation is pretty bad, but I think there's a better chance of him being healthy enough than to find another guy as talented.

If the "right deal" came along, I'd pack his bags too. But it would take a pretty tremendous player for me to consider it the right deal. Even with good, sensible decision-making, creating a champion is extremely, extremely hard. I think if we eliminate Oden from the range of possibilities (as trading/dumping him would do), the chances of a title in the next decade, say, become much, much lower.
 
e_blazer said:
And that's worked out real well for the T'Wolves, right? How many stupid GMs are we supposed to rely upon for this plan to work?
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Opportunities present themselves. I'll just leave it at that.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Sure ... unless trading Oden was the difference between getting a high lottery selection (hypothetically speaking). If you can keep and Oden and reasonable contract terms can be agreed to that make sense for both he and the organization I don't have a problem keeping him as some kind of X-factor ala Andrew Bynum, but he absolutely cannot be a foundation piece moving forward, that's folly.
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Well, let's at least pick a reasonable draft if we're going to look at that kind of scenario...not this watered down, lockout impaired thing we're going to have this season.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Sure ... unless trading Oden was the difference between getting a high lottery selection (hypothetically speaking). If you can keep and Oden and reasonable contract terms can be agreed to that make sense for both he and the organization I don't have a problem keeping him as some kind of X-factor ala Andrew Bynum, but he absolutely cannot be a foundation piece moving forward, that's folly.
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However, multiple surgeries or not, he's still (IMO) of greater value as a potential X-factor than as salary filler, which is what some (such as OMG) would have him be now.

Sure, he's gravy if anything else. Build a team absent GO-related considerations, fine. But to jettison him for the privilege of receiving Troy Murphy's expiring contract--that's ridiculous.
 
Minstrel said:
I'm not banking on him, but I'd like to keep him around. It's extremely rare that you get a player as talented as Oden. His injury situation is pretty bad, but I think there's a better chance of him being healthy enough than to find another guy as talented.

If the "right deal" came along, I'd pack his bags too. But it would take a pretty tremendous player for me to consider it the right deal. Even with good, sensible decision-making, creating a champion is extremely, extremely hard. I think if we eliminate Oden from the range of possibilities (as trading/dumping him would do), the chances of a title in the next decade, say, become much, much lower.
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So just out of curiosity, what is the least you would trade him for?
 
B-Roy said:
So just out of curiosity, what is the least you would trade him for?
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I know you're asking Minstrel, but I'll answer anyway: a player under the age of 30--with a reasonably good health history--who would start on our team from day 1.
 
blazerbanter: Camby, after trade questions: "If I would have known that I'd be in this situation, I wouldn't have signed my extension last year."
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Ouch
 
I think its becoming clear camby is gone.

blazerbanter
Camby, after trade questions: "If I would have known that I'd be in this situation, I wouldn't have signed my extension last year."
less than 5 seconds ago via

First hes already listed as doubtful for tomorrows game. Second he seems to have the attitude that he is gonna be dealt and now its being reported that he makes the harris trade work. Last Spears tweeted he and miller will be dealt. Coincidence? All signs pointing to a tough goodbye tomorrow. Im gonna guess these deals will be known tomorrow night if miller suddenly is "sick"
 
B-Roy said:
So just out of curiosity, what is the least you would trade him for?
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Hmm, good question. There's two issues here, though: his upside and his concrete value. Generally, I'd say that upside is part of overall value, but in this case I don't feel that way. The reason is that Oden's overall value is far below his upside due to his risk...however, getting a player of his value (once risk and reward are factored in) would be a little pointless, because that player would not be a star. Oden's not worth a star player right now, due to his risk. But why do we another decent player? One more decent player isn't going to push the team all that much closer to a title.

Therefore, his value to me (based on my priorities which is championship or bust) is really more his upside, rather than his total value. I'm saying all that so that there's no confusion in thinking that any names I throw out there are my idea of his objective value. They're not.

That said, the minimum would probably be a high-level prospect like John Wall or a young-prime star like Chris Bosh.

Remember, I don't think either is his objective value. So I know 100% that neither Washington or Miami would do such a deal. But it would take something like that for it to even seem worthwhile to me. Getting a Landry Fields or a DeJuan Blair, which might be more his risk-adjusted value, is pointless to me. It does very little to get Portland closer to a title.
 
craigehlo said:
Ouch
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Meh. Stuff happens. Portland is in this situation, and thus Camby is, because Roy ended up (likely) finished as an elite NBA player and Oden suffered another set-back. If Roy were still a top player (even if Oden were still injured), Portland wouldn't be looking to trade away veterans. I'd say all of this hurts the franchise more than Camby, so I really don't feel much sympathy for Camby.
 
yuyuza1 said:
I want to empathize with him, but damn, Marcus. Suck it up.
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Exactly. It's a business and he works for an organization that's had major changes at the top since he signed that contract. Add to that his recent injury and this shouldn't be that much of a shock.
 
blazerbanter: Camby, after trade questions: "If I would have known that I'd be in this situation, I wouldn't have signed my extension last year."
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If we knew that Camby was going to miss a couple of dozen games this year (and counting) maybe the team wouldn't have signed his extension, either.

Sheesh.

Ed O.
 
Minstrel said:
Meh. Stuff happens. Portland is in this situation, and thus Camby is, because Roy ended up (likely) finished as an elite NBA player and Oden suffered another set-back. If Roy were still a top player (even if Oden were still injured), Portland wouldn't be looking to trade away veterans. I'd say all of this hurts the franchise more than Camby, so I really don't feel much sympathy for Camby.
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Agreed.
 
I think when making the trade, you have to evaluate the team as a whole, and look at what is worth something and what is not. Here are the facts that need to be addressed.

A huge part of the Blazers salary cap for the next few years will be taken up by Roy's contract. If Oden ends up staying he will end up taking up a chunk, and then along with Lamarcus/Wesley's contracts, you will have over half of the salary cap (actually probably much more) taken up by players who for the most part, haven't been available to help the team, and may never be able to do so.

Miller and Camby are coming to end of career. They are also some of the few pieces out of the rest of the team, that actually has trade value. Out of the whole team, the following guys have trade value: Miller, Camby, Aldridge, Batum, Mathews, Joel and possibly Rudy. Babbit still might have value because nobody has seen him play. All the rest of the guys, are simple throw in's at best, and none of them are going to bring you talent in return.

So say we get to the point where Camby and Miller leave. Then our pool of players we can bring in talent left with shrinks even more. Since most of Portland's salary cap is tied up, that leaves free agency out the door. That means after they leave, we have to draft or trade to get players to come in. That would leave a scenario where you have to trade some of your talent base to get talent, which usually ends up with the team treading water, exchanging one strength for another. So that leaves the only way to build as through the draft, which is where we would be if we rebuilt anyhow. The difference being, getting something for Camby and Miller before the inevitable happening.
 
Good for Camby standing up for himself!
 
HCP said:
Good for Camby standing up for himself!
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How is that standing up for himself? NBA players sign contracts and get traded. It's part of the game. If you don't like the game, don't sign the paper. It's like I feel really sorry for this guy and his 10 million plus dollars per year to have to "suffer" through such situations.
 
HCP said:
Good for Camby standing up for himself!
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He's hurting his own trade value right now, and is coming out looking pretty petty. Dre, who is much more valuable to this team, and is actually fighting through his injuries, was the ultimate professional with the media dissing him from his start here. He has much more to gripe about, but he's keeping his mouth shut.
 
Ed O said:
If we knew that Camby was going to miss a couple of dozen games this year (and counting) maybe the team wouldn't have signed his extension, either.

Sheesh.
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I don't get why people are seeing this as a negative. He wants to be here. He wants to stay badly enough that he is considering retirement if traded. He loves our team, our city, and our fans. He doesn't want to be a trade piece; he wants to be part of our team. I love his attitude.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I don't get why people are seeing this as a negative. He wants to be here. He wants to stay badly enough that he is considering retirement if traded. He loves our team, our city, and our fans. He doesn't want to be a trade piece; he wants to be part of our team. I love his attitude.
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It's positive that he likes it here. I guess the negative is that his implication is that he feels betrayed, which I think would be a rather unfair characterization. If that isn't what he's implying, then this doesn't apply.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I don't get why people are seeing this as a negative. He wants to be here. He wants to stay badly enough that he is considering retirement if traded. He loves our team, our city, and our fans. He doesn't want to be a trade piece; he wants to be part of our team. I love his attitude.
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He wants to be an NBA player with a no-trade clause.

If his attitude (whether or not it's a positive in terms of the city) hurts his trade value, then I see it as a negative. I think Camby will be desired by teams that want him as a player, and not just a contract, so I believe him making this kind of noise is a negative.

I think it is poor form for a team to criticize a player for leaving as a free agent, and I think it is poor form for a player to criticize a team that trades him.

Ed O.
 
I'm not sure why people are so upset with Camby, he has a right to express his dissatisfaction ... just as much right as the team has of trading him. This is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned (even though it probably does put a small dent in his trade value).
 
I understand the whole "they get millions to play a game thing". He has been amazing for us on one hand, on another he has like 3 young kids and is getting tired of yanking them in and out of different schools. I was just looking at it from the personal side, not the business.
 
yuyuza1 said:
He's hurting his own trade value right now, and is coming out looking pretty petty. Dre, who is much more valuable to this team, and is actually fighting through his injuries, was the ultimate professional with the media dissing him from his start here. He has much more to gripe about, but he's keeping his mouth shut.
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We've got Camby saying he really wants to be here and would rather retire than play elsewhere, and we've got Miller who says he doesn't care one way or the other. Personally, I prefer to have players who really want to be part of the team rather than disinterested mercenaries.

Of course, the most important thing is that they can play well, which is why I like them both.
 
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