Jason Quick "deal for Harris very real"

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I would do it without Patty Mills but we would have to give a 2nd rd pick instead
 
To shift gears slightly, I think this discussion shows us two things:

1) New York probably made the right call by trading half their team for Carmelo, since they'll need two stars to have a shot at a title.

2) Our FO needs to operate with a "swing-for-the-fences" mentality; the Harris' and Feltons of the world aren't going to bring us a title unless we get another all-star-level player (by whatever means) to pair with LA.
 
Nikolokolus said:
and off-hand without spending more than two seconds I listed Jordan, Duncan and Kobe ...
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But that, even if we count Kobe, is not a particularly impressive list considering it spans 25 years. How many draft picks were made over that time? How many total team seasons?

Of course, the list is a little longer. We could add Olajuwon and Wade to that list, of franchise players that led to titles for their drafting team since Jordan (and counting Jordan). That gets us up to five. Five in about 25 years, with all the teams and draft picks that have been made...really underscores how infinitesimally low the chances of drafting that kind of player is.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
To shift gears slightly, I think this discussion shows us two things:

1) New York probably made the right call by trading half their team for Carmelo, since they'll need two stars to have a shot at a title.

2) Our FO needs to operate with a "swing-for-the-fences" mentality; the Harris' and Feltons of the world aren't going to bring us a title unless we get another all-star-level player (by whatever means) to pair with LA.
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Agreed. Which is why I, for one, am in the "don't use Oden as a throw-in" camp. If Oden helps us get back a Felton-level player, we go from "about average" to "about average+", while giving up the potential of Oden taking us to elite level.

To take your (2) a bit further... I don't think all-star-level will do it. It will take LMA plus a top-10 level player, IMO.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Yep--it was a poorly-conceived statement & question that detracted from his original intended point, and by the time he clarified, the argument was too far gone.
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I accept partial responsibility for that one. Slow work week; nothing big going on until Friday. Just killing time and trying to somewhat stimulate my brain...
 
Minstrel said:
But that, even if we count Kobe, is not a particularly impressive list considering it spans 25 years. How many draft picks were made over that time? How many total team seasons?

Of course, the list is a little longer. We could add Olajuwon and Wade to that list, of franchise players that led to titles for their drafting team since Jordan (and counting Jordan). That gets us up to five. Five in about 25 years, with all the teams and draft picks that have been made...really underscores how infinitesimally low the chances of drafting that kind of player is.
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Is it? Or is it more of an indicator of the likelyhood of a player being drafted and winning a championship on the same team? Most players don't spend their career with one team. Rookie contracts are a really good thing if you are a team that scouts other teams players and then steals them when it is over. Because you know at a certain point, those players will be available.
 
PapaG said:
I accept partial responsibility for that one. Slow work week; nothing big going on until Friday. Just killing time and trying to somewhat stimulate my brain...
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Sticking your tongue into an electrical outlet ought to work.
 
Minstrel said:
But that, even if we count Kobe, is not a particularly impressive list considering it spans 25 years. How many draft picks were made over that time? How many total team seasons?

Of course, the list is a little longer. We could add Olajuwon and Wade to that list, of franchise players that led to titles for their drafting team since Jordan (and counting Jordan). That gets us up to five. Five in about 25 years, with all the teams and draft picks that have been made...really underscores how infinitesimally low the chances of drafting that kind of player is.
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Actually it doesn't tell me anything about the likelihood of drafting a franchise quality player, it tells me a whole lot more about just how much the NBA has been dominated by a handful of player/teams. In the last 20-25 years that Magic, Isiah, Jordan, Kobe and Duncan have been racking up titles, I'd say that there have been quite a few 'championship quality' players who just happened not to win a championship.

Bottom line, even with great talent there are no guarantees, just raised odds.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
To shift gears slightly, I think this discussion shows us two things:

1) New York probably made the right call by trading half their team for Carmelo, since they'll need two stars to have a shot at a title.

2) Our FO needs to operate with a "swing-for-the-fences" mentality; the Harris' and Feltons of the world aren't going to bring us a title unless we get another all-star-level player (by whatever means) to pair with LA.
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I'm completely going by a foggy memory on this one, but didn't Amare bristle when his name was brought up last year at the trade deadline in some Portland talks?

New York has a decided advantage over a team like Portland. They can attract a star FA, and they can attract a soon-to-be FA like Carmelo Anthony.

I think the paradigm shifts for teams in smaller markets. Building through the draft, or trades on draft day, seems to be a better road map to a title. San Antonio is kind of the blue print for that, since large markets or ideal markets (Miami, for example) are winning titles with the exception of the Spurs.

That's one of the reasons why "missing" on players like Jordan or Durant is even more difficult for a franchise like Portland to overcome. No fault to Bowie or Oden, but rarely is Portland going to get a shot at a #1 pick while already having a team loaded with potential.
 
hasoos said:
Is it? Or is it more of an indicator of the likelyhood of a player being drafted and winning a championship on the same team? Most players don't spend their career with one team. Rookie contracts are a really good thing if you are a team that scouts other teams players and then steals them when it is over. Because you know at a certain point, those players will be available.
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Which gets to the trade or free agency avenues. And there are similar lists of successes on each of those routes too (well, it's pretty much just Shaq as far as free agency goes), but again, few and far between.

What this means is not that drafting and trading are useless (even free agency is not useless, though by far the worst way to try to build a champion), but those avenues are rather overrated in terms of likelihood of success. I think when people say "Let's just forget Oden, he's a bust, move on" they're severely overestimating what they're going to get from "moving on." Not because Cho is a bad GM (it's yet to be determined how good Cho is) but just because all of those routes pan out once a generation, if lucky, for a franchise. I'd rather pin my hopes to a clearly talented player with no permanent afflictions to get healthy than to a once-a-generation-or-less proposition.

That's my essential thesis.
 
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PapaG said:
I'm completely going by a foggy memory on this one, but didn't Amare bristle when his name was brought up last year at the trade deadline in some Portland talks?

New York has a decided advantage over a team like Portland. They can attract a star FA, and they can attract a soon-to-be FA like Carmelo Anthony.

I think the paradigm shifts for teams in smaller markets. Building through the draft, or trades on draft day, seems to be a better road map to a title. San Antonio is kind of the blue print for that, since large markets or ideal markets (Miami, for example) are winning titles with the exception of the Spurs.

That's one of the reasons why "missing" on players like Jordan or Durant is even more difficult for a franchise like Portland to overcome. No fault to Bowie or Oden, but rarely is Portland going to get a shot at a #1 pick while already having a team loaded with potential.
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Bingo.

Small market teams have more "inertia" to overcome when it comes to landing free agents and getting a player 'excited' about being traded to them than the New Yorks, Miamis and LAs of the world. Superstars are typically trying to get away from places like Portland, not go to them and that makes roster building different and certainly more difficult.
 
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... wake me up with an NBA deal goes down. So far its been a rather boring trade deadline. Hopefully things pick up around the league in the next 24 hours.
 
I didn't read the rest of this thread I'm just on page 16, so I'm not sure if you've sorted it out yet. But, I remember Kobe saying in the past that the only way he was going to go to college was to play for Coach K. He said it was one of the reasons he was so excited to play for Team USA and was even weighing in when there was Coach K to the NBA rumors.
 
Blazinaway said:
Quick just on 95.5 and said Harris deal may be dying...
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It was dead as soon as he caught wind of it as a rumor. I swear, Quick has NEVER broke a damn thing since he's been the Blazers beat writer. It baffles me that he's even quotable. Atleast Canzano is just an opinion.
 
just in case anyone was listening to BFT.. that guy from Hood River who called wasnt me.. but I know who he is lol!
 
Al_Iannazzone In all likelihood Devin Harris will be traded to Dallas, I have heard. But Portland remains a possibility.
 
BeerBoy said:
Cho isnt like KP. He doesnt share info with anyone.
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Thats those strict Southeast Asian ideals at its finest. Methodical for a reason. If he tells someone, he will have to eat their brains.

Very 'fragrant'.
 
Chris_Broussard I'm told there's a 100 pct chance of Devin Harris being traded. Dallas and Portland likeliest spots. Mavs offer Caron's exp contract.
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
Chris_Broussard I'm told there's a 100 pct chance of Devin Harris being traded. Dallas and Portland likeliest spots. Mavs offer Caron's exp contract.
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Why does NJ want all these expiring contracts? I don't think many free agent are going to be excited about going there now that they lost the Melo sweepstakes.
 
yuyuza1 said:
Probably someone in Vulcan?
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Nobody in Vulcan would talk to Crapzano. Unless they didnt care about getting fired if they got caught.

Crapzano, Quick, Vance, Jaynes etc. sources are all VERY over rated. They use the term "sources" loosely.
 
MickZagger said:
Why does NJ want all these expiring contracts? I don't think many free agent are going to be excited about going there now that they lost the Melo sweepstakes.
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Probably to cut salary for the next CBA?
 
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